My first Lexus and the anger in the family - Am I alone?

[royoftherovers]

33 minutes ago, Vlady said:

It is not because the way it looks but because of the electrical drive. 🙂 lol

Thanks Vlad.I`ve never driven a Fork Lift Truck !!

[i-s]

The psychology of nationalities is interesting. 

In the UK the "debadged" option is usually applied to bottom-end models. We want to hide the fact that we were so cheap as to buy a 316i and hope that everyone thinks it's a 328i.

In Germany the opposite is true. Debadging is applied to top-end models. They're embarrassed to shout about success and about having something that is more than they need, about standing out. They hope that people will think that their 760Li is a 730d or even mistake it for a 520i.

Then there's the nationalistic side of it. There is a large tendency to nationalism in european car purchasing - In spain there are a lot of Seat, in italy there are a lot of fiat, lancia, etc. In france there's a lot of PSA and renault. In germany, of course, it's more still - the germans are very proud of their car industry and there's a very good chance they they know someone who's livelihood is linked with the car industry. 

Motoring has a peculiar position in german culture - driving is, although we might perceive as aggressive, generally of a higher technical standard than here in the UK. Unrestricted autobahn has a position similar to the second amendment in the USA - there's not a good practical reason for it anymore, but trying to take it away will be over the dead bodies of a large amount of the electorate. 

Think of the Golf - that deeply competent, "classless" car. It does what it does very well, very quietly without drawing particular attention. It doesn't stand out. That is the archetype of where your german in-laws thinking lies. 

And here you are - wanting a big, flashy car with oodles of chrome. People are going to notice you. People are going to talk. Oh dear, it isn't german, it isn't even european! It has a big V8 and it is ostentatious! 

In the UK the equivalent of what you're doing is turning up on a primped middle-class newbuild housing estate talking about changing your sensible demure car for a full-on pimped RX7 with bosozoku exhausts and doing a few donuts in the cul-de-sac. 

However, I think that your in-laws are wrong (shock, horror). There's no point confronting them on it - simply do what you wish to do. It is your life, your car. The car itself will win them over when you take them out for dinner or to the airport or something in it. HTC (the almost-forgotten maker of phones) had a tagline that could so easily have been applied to the LS - Quietly Brilliant. Let the car speak for itself. 

[Martin F]

On 2/19/2019 at 9:36 AM, Bob Karly said:

I really don't bother what other thinks of me as long they don't pay my bills.

Obviously you do otherwise you would never have made such a post. 

I would advise that you grow a back bone, it is your money and your choice nobody else's.

The only person I would listen to in such circumstances is my wife as to a slight degree she can be impacted, but the choice is still ultimately mine. 

When you do buy the LS and the next time you are planning to go somewhere with the in-laws make sure you insist that they take their own car as obviously the wouldn't want to be seen going anywhere in a Lexus. 

 

 

[LexusIS300h]

I have family in Austria who were totally underwhelmed when I told them about my new Lexus. They drive BMW and Mercedes, as do most of the people in their town.

A Lexus is a foreign car there and as rare as hens teeth. Myself, I quite like that, having something different from the rest of the sheep. We were the first family with a Prius on our estate and also the first with a Lexus, although one appeared a couple of months after ours.

They say jealousy makes you nasty and that is the case with your father in law. So what? It’s your life, your money and the only person whose view you should respect apart from yourr own, loves the car too. Buy it and be damned and just for good measure put extra blackout on the rear windows and pimp your wheels. Happy motoring with your big Lexus 👍

[Vlady]

5 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Thanks Vlad.I`ve never driven a Fork Lift Truck !!

Quite and instant torque! lol. 

[st4]

If you want to see German car butt hurt go onto Pistonheads and see the fanbois get irate whenever the quality of a Lexus IS promoted.

 

To be fair all my Lexus has had from my immediate family and friends is love and admiration. They were particularly shocked to discover it was more comfortable than the previous Mercedes and admitted it was “nicer”

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

 

[aido]

My stepdad is German and he's never really been a fan of Lexus either - he did used to love and drive Ford's like the Sierra Cosworth back in the day and then had a VW Golf estate for years through his work which went all over Europe with minimal fuss. A few years after I had the IS and then the Aristo I bought a Passat as a stopgap and at the time he went through a couple of 320ds and he was impressed by the Passat.

He did comment at the time that a lot of German's drive VWs and that it's seen as the national brand of Germany - he does have an E class at his place in Germany though for when he's there but says he prefers the VW and only bought the Merc as it was sold via the family to him for a low price. 

Fast forward a bit, I had a Passat CC GT that I did 110k in and really loved and he's a few Passat Estates in and mostly loves them but they certainly have had their own quirks. 

After the CC I went down the Volvo XC90 D5 route which is about as good a family car as you'll ever find (it's just a pain in the arse in most car parks due to it's large size) but otherwise it's brilliant in all weathers. My stepdad really doesn't like the Volvo though.

I'm 40 now with 2 kids and that's one car you can easily fill with prams, changing bags, and yet still go to Costco and fit a full shop in the boot with cubby holes for wine bottles etc in the back 😄

I got a high milage LS460 as a motorway cruiser with comfort in mind and to keep the miles down on the Volvo. 

I had a few shocks initially when the radar cruise module failed after it was serviced and that cost me a lot to get sorted but I've got to admit I've cleaned it today and love it in a different way to the Volvo - it just wafts along and you have the great Mark Levinson system in there. 

70km a day is going to cost a fair whack compared to what you would be spending in say a 2 litre modern diesel but no car of any brand is perfect and the LS is a very nice place to spend that time. 

My commute is a 160 mile round trip so I just tend to drive down one day, spend a night in a hotel and then drive back the next day when I'm done.

I'm carrying a couple of injuries these days so wanted something easy to drive and the LS ticks those boxes nicely - at the end of the day you'll be the one driving it so spend the time in whatever makes you happy.

[jdanielca]

On 2/20/2019 at 8:58 PM, Bob Karly said:

Update

My wife was p**** off to hear the whole soupd opera and her parents freak out. Of course, as a good German, she is always thibking about the 460's fuel consumption, but she admitted that the car is very confortable as f***. Just because I love her I went to a Toyota today to test a Avensis Station Wagon. Drove 40 minutes with the car. No. Just no. Not after driving the 460. Funny thing: they have the exact same price. Of course the 460's running cost is higher. Around 40% but the pleasure of driving one is 200% higher.

Funny thing is that my mother in-law heard today that I would test a Toyota and said "Hey Bob, of course you can buy you a Lexus. Sorry for the mess the other day. My husband was very rude and overreacted when he heard your decision. He is nuts sometimes. Don't make any thoughts. Buy what you think is the best for you." Well, I think somebody has googled "LS 460 overview" and watched some YouTube Videos. 😂😂 

Will most probably get the 460 next week!

Good job keep us updated pics etc when it happens. 

[Linas.P]

Probably many people already said this many times, but it is just a fact - it is your money and your life. Nobody can tell you what car you buy with your money and I mean nobody!  I am much younger than you, but nobody in my family could tell me what to do, certainly not what car I should buy. To extent that is not only me, but nobody in my family would dear to say it in any other way, but just "light opinion"i.e. - "beautiful car, but ... have you considered fuel cost etc. etc. (whatever the argument would be)". Actually, I doubt even that... that is kind of personal choice and it is just a fuel and it is just a car... maybe one day you decide it is not for you and sell it... and but another car. I don't see any reason why anyone would feel entitled to criticise you for your choice. If you choose to listen, it is your thing as again nobody can tell you now to listen your family... but I fount it extremely uneducated, wrongly entitled and rude make make statements like that regarding other person's car choice.

My point you are adult and you do what you want. The stated power of the car is nothing extraordinary - look to other large cars i.e. Audi S6, larger BMWs, even some diesels - ok they may have 800Nm and and less HP... still large car needs large engine. This is not wrong, this is how it should be to make the car feel right. Lexus LS is amazing choice for long drive and if you need space in the back for family definitely good choice. Get it, enjoy it, make your passengers enjoy it (LS is great for that) and in the end if you find it for whatever reason is not for you... sell it, get another car.

[dutchie01]

Well Bob, that is not an easy position you seem to be in. If it was your neighbours no problem but your parents in law makes this an interesting case.

Beeing non German in a German family will maybe play a role. It are the unwritten rules of a certain class that dictate the choice of clothes, houses, choice of restaurants and.. cars.

Small cars like a Mini are ok if your are under 30, a decent 3 series or C class until 40 and then a Merc E or 5 series is propably needed, but.. in the right color, grey or dark blue.

Going against these unwritten rules will place you outside the bubble and set you apart. What your father in law told you are really what he is afraid of the other people he knows will think ( they wont say it loud i guess).  I am convinced he will accept the LS if it was your second car, a hobby vehicle. 

Maybe you can convince him by comparing the LS to the S class Merc. Show some clips telling the history and engineering behind it. Tell him the Lexus beats the Merc and drives circles around a 5 series. Ask him out to join you on a testdrive.If he is Ok with your choice it will make your life much easier. 

(and if he keeps resisting just buy it anyway!)

 

 

 

 

    

[Zotto]

It's all about conformism. Lexus, here in UE, are seen as a extravagant choice, most of people think that if you have sufficient money to buy a luxury car you have to get a Mercedes or BMW, if you have a bit less money another European brand. I made years to be seen like a strange guy because I drove Hyundai cars, and even now, being at my 3rd Lexus, many think I would have bought something teutonic, for sure "superior" to these japanese strange vehicles. A friend of mine, after a little trip on my RX, said "yes nice, but if you wanted a hybrid you could buy a bmw…"  I did not answered him, knowing it's impossible to move him from his steady opinion, that while German are making hybrids from few years Toyota groups made  Prius from 1996...

[Bob Karly]

On 2/23/2019 at 12:54 PM, i-s said:

The psychology of nationalities is interesting. 

In the UK the "debadged" option is usually applied to bottom-end models. We want to hide the fact that we were so cheap as to buy a 316i and hope that everyone thinks it's a 328i.

In Germany the opposite is true. Debadging is applied to top-end models. They're embarrassed to shout about success and about having something that is more than they need, about standing out. They hope that people will think that their 760Li is a 730d or even mistake it for a 520i.

Then there's the nationalistic side of it. There is a large tendency to nationalism in european car purchasing - In spain there are a lot of Seat, in italy there are a lot of fiat, lancia, etc. In france there's a lot of PSA and renault. In germany, of course, it's more still - the germans are very proud of their car industry and there's a very good chance they they know someone who's livelihood is linked with the car industry. 

Motoring has a peculiar position in german culture - driving is, although we might perceive as aggressive, generally of a higher technical standard than here in the UK. Unrestricted autobahn has a position similar to the second amendment in the USA - there's not a good practical reason for it anymore, but trying to take it away will be over the dead bodies of a large amount of the electorate. 

Think of the Golf - that deeply competent, "classless" car. It does what it does very well, very quietly without drawing particular attention. It doesn't stand out. That is the archetype of where your german in-laws thinking lies. 

And here you are - wanting a big, flashy car with oodles of chrome. People are going to notice you. People are going to talk. Oh dear, it isn't german, it isn't even european! It has a big V8 and it is ostentatious! 

In the UK the equivalent of what you're doing is turning up on a primped middle-class newbuild housing estate talking about changing your sensible demure car for a full-on pimped RX7 with bosozoku exhausts and doing a few donuts in the cul-de-sac. 

However, I think that your in-laws are wrong (shock, horror). There's no point confronting them on it - simply do what you wish to do. It is your life, your car. The car itself will win them over when you take them out for dinner or to the airport or something in it. HTC (the almost-forgotten maker of phones) had a tagline that could so easily have been applied to the LS - Quietly Brilliant. Let the car speak for itself. 

Word, mate! Funny thing about what you said: my monther in-law has a Golf. 😂😂

[Bob Karly]

On 2/23/2019 at 8:25 PM, aido said:

My stepdad is German and he's never really been a fan of Lexus either - he did used to love and drive Ford's like the Sierra Cosworth back in the day and then had a VW Golf estate for years through his work which went all over Europe with minimal fuss. A few years after I had the IS and then the Aristo I bought a Passat as a stopgap and at the time he went through a couple of 320ds and he was impressed by the Passat.

He did comment at the time that a lot of German's drive VWs and that it's seen as the national brand of Germany - he does have an E class at his place in Germany though for when he's there but says he prefers the VW and only bought the Merc as it was sold via the family to him for a low price. 

Fast forward a bit, I had a Passat CC GT that I did 110k in and really loved and he's a few Passat Estates in and mostly loves them but they certainly have had their own quirks. 

After the CC I went down the Volvo XC90 D5 route which is about as good a family car as you'll ever find (it's just a pain in the arse in most car parks due to it's large size) but otherwise it's brilliant in all weathers. My stepdad really doesn't like the Volvo though.

I'm 40 now with 2 kids and that's one car you can easily fill with prams, changing bags, and yet still go to Costco and fit a full shop in the boot with cubby holes for wine bottles etc in the back 😄

I got a high milage LS460 as a motorway cruiser with comfort in mind and to keep the miles down on the Volvo. 

I had a few shocks initially when the radar cruise module failed after it was serviced and that cost me a lot to get sorted but I've got to admit I've cleaned it today and love it in a different way to the Volvo - it just wafts along and you have the great Mark Levinson system in there. 

70km a day is going to cost a fair whack compared to what you would be spending in say a 2 litre modern diesel but no car of any brand is perfect and the LS is a very nice place to spend that time. 

My commute is a 160 mile round trip so I just tend to drive down one day, spend a night in a hotel and then drive back the next day when I'm done.

I'm carrying a couple of injuries these days so wanted something easy to drive and the LS ticks those boxes nicely - at the end of the day you'll be the one driving it so spend the time in whatever makes you happy.

I was thinking about getting a Volvo before, but they are quite expensive in Germany and most  of them are Diesel, what is a no go for us since most towns in Germany  are about to ban Diesel. I am totally aware that my cost will be higher than some Skoda (my wife wanted one), but I will invest money in the pleasure of driving one of the best cars ever made. And thanks God at this point of my career, the money is there.

I will most probably make some trips with my son to watch races on Hockenheim, Nürburgring and Spa, so I would like to have something nice, reliable and enjiyable for my day by day and trips. I am convinced that I am making the best decision and whatever what others will say/think. 

[Bob Karly]

On 2/23/2019 at 3:41 PM, LexusIS300h said:

I have family in Austria who were totally underwhelmed when I told them about my new Lexus. They drive BMW and Mercedes, as do most of the people in their town.

A Lexus is a foreign car there and as rare as hens teeth. Myself, I quite like that, having something different from the rest of the sheep. We were the first family with a Prius on our estate and also the first with a Lexus, although one appeared a couple of months after ours.

They say jealousy makes you nasty and that is the case with your father in law. So what? It’s your life, your money and the only person whose view you should respect apart from yourr own, loves the car too. Buy it and be damned and just for good measure put extra blackout on the rear windows and pimp your wheels. Happy motoring with your big Lexus 👍

Hahaha. Putting the pimp kit would be gold!

[The Lexus Enthusiast]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:17 PM, Bluesman said:

LPG your LS you know it makes sense.

 

Yeah it was temping some years ago but now the car is only driven very rarely so paying for the conversion would probably just cost more than it pays off. 

Alex 

[runsgrateasanut]

Did anyone see Tony Robinsons Travel around the World last night where he visited Mercedes Benz and had first hand explanation of the way the Germans think about their Car industry whilst he was driving their latest and most expensive (?)model car? Confirms what the Thread starter indicates.

[Bob Karly]

Just signing the papers to get my LS 460. Guys, wish me luck. I have really hugr expectations with this car. 

[cruisermark]

Good news - we love pictures btw! - Good luck and enjoy

[The Lexus Enthusiast]

Best of luck, it won't let those expectations down! 

[Bob Karly]

3 hours ago, cruisermark said:

Good news - we love pictures btw! - Good luck and enjoy

They will do the service and repair a sun shade, which was not working properly. I should post some pictures in the next days. 

[Kal Choudhury]

Interesting reading this. My father in law was happy when I got a Lexus as he is a lifelong Toyota owner (being old and asian lol), so was happy for me to "join the club" after deciding to stop leasing ( skoda octavia Vrs 2 years and Polo GTi 2 years). Here a Lexus LS is seen more an understated "Captain of industry" car where as i suppose in Germany if you aren't buying a VW i.e. peoplescar, its almost offending someone.

Each to their own I say. Enjoy wafting around in silence while they look weirdly at you.

 

 

[harrylime]

21 hours ago, runsgrateasanut said:

Did anyone see Tony Robinsons Travel around the World last night where he visited Mercedes Benz and had first hand explanation of the way the Germans think about their Car industry whilst he was driving their latest and most expensive (?)model car? Confirms what the Thread starter indicates.

At least the Germans have a car industry to be proud of. If our successive dimwitted, unimaginative, short sighted Governments had not subsidised our strategy of becoming car assemblers for Nissan, Toyota, Honda and Tata instead of encouraging British car manufacturing we would not have been kowtowing to these foreign companies for years and begging them not to leave the UK, which they are entitled to at any time. We sell off our assets and manufacturing has, relatively speaking, died a death. What cars do we actually make? We make Caterhams, with predominantly American and Japanese engines and gearboxes. We also make Morgans, which are made of wood, and even the ash frame is going to be imported, because we are running out of ash in the UK. I can't believe the fifth largest economy in the world has become so reliant on foreign countries. Honda is closing its plant in Swindon, Nissan will not be producing the new X Trail here, Toyota and Tata could move production anywhere in the world at a whim. We are bigger than South Korea but Kias seem to have taken over the world. I see Kias everywhere. The Koreans seem to be where the Japanese were 20 or 30 years ago. I am not an economist but it seems to me that you cannot expect to succeed economically unless you make stuff that people want. As well as the jobs and the turnover, it's a case of branding and national pride. We have a history of engineering innovation and excellence. We should be taking advantage of that. To quote a well known motoring journalist, how hard can it be? Someone should take the Honda plant, and create a new British car company

[BigBoomer]

1 hour ago, harrylime said:

At least the Germans have a car industry to be proud of. If our successive dimwitted, unimaginative, short sighted Governments had not subsidised our strategy of becoming car assemblers for Nissan, Toyota, Honda and Tata instead of encouraging British car manufacturing we would not have been kowtowing to these foreign companies for years and begging them not to leave the UK, which they are entitled to at any time. We sell off our assets and manufacturing has, relatively speaking, died a death. What cars do we actually make? We make Caterhams, with predominantly American and Japanese engines and gearboxes. We also make Morgans, which are made of wood, and even the ash frame is going to be imported, because we are running out of ash in the UK. I can't believe the fifth largest economy in the world has become so reliant on foreign countries. Honda is closing its plant in Swindon, Nissan will not be producing the new X Trail here, Toyota and Tata could move production anywhere in the world at a whim. We are bigger than South Korea but Kias seem to have taken over the world. I see Kias everywhere. The Koreans seem to be where the Japanese were 20 or 30 years ago. I am not an economist but it seems to me that you cannot expect to succeed economically unless you make stuff that people want. As well as the jobs and the turnover, it's a case of branding and national pride. We have a history of engineering innovation and excellence. We should be taking advantage of that. To quote a well known motoring journalist, how hard can it be? Someone should take the Honda plant, and create a new British car company

Personally I could care less if my car is "British". I care more that it fits me and is reliable, comfortable, and affordable, something that none of the British made cars are.
The engineering excellence is still here, but these days it is designing and making components of cars and motorcycles amongst other things, rather than assembling those components.

Clarkson et al put it quite clearly in one of their many "tributes" to the British car industry. The problem is the phrase.... "That'll do".
In Japan/Korea anyone who even thought that would immediately run out and top themselves.
In Germany if someone said it all their co-workers would frown, and tut, and there would be management and worker council meetings and the offender would be "re-educated".
That phrase killed off almost all of the British car and motorcycle industries and a great many other industries too.

Triumph motorcycles are doing quite nicely these days as they make what the market wants, mostly, but I don't know of another British owned motoring company of the same scale or bigger. However, even they are moving some of their production overseas along with Dyson and so many others.

I don't blame the government, I blame the British peoples attitude. We now live in a Global economy so the idea of "buy British" is mostly bollox and belongs back in the dark ages along with most other aspects of tribalism. Very little of what you buy is wholly British and most people will buy an equivalent item at half the price even though it's Made in China which is why amazon, eBay, Aldi, and Lidl are thriving.

We still have a manufacturing industry, but we now mostly make small volume high value items for export such as Rolls Royces, Bentleys, McLarens, Ariels, Nobles, etc. and yes they are mostly foreign owned but are manufactured in the UK. Bespoke engineering and innovation is what we are good at, not mass production.

[i-s]

As a British engineer, I don't actually agree with harrylime.

British engineering is brilliant in some respects - we're fantastic and innovative problem-solvers. We're very good at originating clever new ideas. 

We're terrible when it comes to consistency. There's very much a "bodge-it-and-make-do" approach whereby hand-fettling is an accepted method of finishing the product. The attitude that I've encountered many times over the years in UK industry has been "We've always done it this way and it was fine then so it's fine now". This mindset doesn't allow for making something better over time. (It should be noted, however, that "bodge and make do" actually works pretty well in a war). 

Meanwhile the Japanese and Americans come up with continuous improvement approaches like Kaizen or Six-Sigma.

The death of the British car industry had little to do with government support or lack of. It was because most of the products were lackluster or poor quality or both when playing on an international market. Metro or 205? Maestro or Golf? Rover 800 or Toyota Camry? XJ40 or LS400? 

Again and again stupid things have been done. When MG Rover became independent from BMW they had a really well engineered car in the 75/ZT, and they had some rather dated but liked cards in the 25 and 45, both of which needed updates/replacements. What did MGR invest their money in? They spent a lot on re-engineering the FWD Rover 75 into an RWD V8, and a bunch more developing the X-Power SV. That left nothing for developing mass-market models, so the best they could do was import the Tata Indica and slap a cityrover badge on it. That car failed not because of carrying a british badge, but because it was expensive for what it was and nowhere near as good as its competition (eg fiat panda). 

The point about Honda Swindon, Toyota Derby, BMW Oxford and Nissan Sunderland producing high-quality cars in a productive fashion is that the quality and continuous improvement systems are overseen by those companies. The culture of quality is enforced from above and these plants are not allowed to descend into typically british chaos. 

Should a new car company start up in one of these facilities? By all means - but it won't be easy. Tesla did exactly this (Tesla Fremont is what was formerly GM Fremont (the Longbridge of the USA - a reputation for poor quality and low productivity) and then latterly the NUMMI joint-venture between GM and Toyota, before it was sold to Tesla).

If you wanted to make a new British car then it would need to be forward-looking. Most of the components are already there - Take Gordon Murray's iStream architecture. Bring in electric drivetrain from Ricardo. There's a Li-Ion Battery factory for sale in sunderland (AESC - owned by nissan but they've been trying to sell it off for a few years). Get some styling from some of the great british automotive stylists currently doing the rounds (Ian Callum, Peter Horbury, even Chris Bangle (who despite controversy at the time did actually pen designs that stood the test of time very well, even if people couldn't see it at first)). Leather and wood and metalwork inspired by the great british automotive traditions - make the car unapologetically british. Volvo have achieved huge growth and success in the past few years by stopping being apologetic and actually being distinctly swedish (thanks to chinese money). There's enough german cars out there, and jaguar made a mistake by trying to be that. Leave techno-bauhaus to audi. 

Make it distinctive, make it desirable, but above all make it a quality product. 

 

[Bob Karly]

Update:

Guys, I got my Lexus. What a machine. What a pleasure getting in the car every morning and driving to work. Loving every second. My father in-law asked me to get him for a ride and really enjoyed it. Said that it is very comfortable, quiet and it seems like a Boeing with all lights and instruments. He was very impressed and was asking during the whole ride to drive faster! 😂 My mother in-law want to get her ride this week.

Some pictures to you, since you love pics. Thanks for all the support, Lexus Lovers!