Negotiating for a new ES

[Mike246]

I've now decided that I am serious about doing a part-ex for a new ES.

I've never done a PCP before but it's tempting and the focus is on an F-Sport with the Takumi pack. Lexus have not been too clever with their bundling of the options - as an example I don't particularly want 19-inch wheels, hard suspension or a ponced-up sound system but I don't want a satnav screen which is a fair bit smaller than I have in my GS250.

I've spoken with 2 dealers (1 by visiting) and it seems that whatever enticements they offer are funded by a low part-ex valuation. No surprise here.

Does anyone have a few words of wisdom to put me on the right track?

[First_Lexus]

Try using CarWow as a starting point for negotiations. I found it useful as it highlighted the dealers who are keen to do a deal. Problem may be that the ES is new. If you could wait a few months you may get a more tempting offer...

Lexus Swindon are offering 0% PCP on all new cars (excl. the UX) with £2000 deposit contribution OR £4000 deposit contribution until Feb 21st. Might be worth giving them a ring.

[Spottedlaurel]

When I recently bought my used RX from a Lexus main dealer the salesman was saying people with cash in the bank are using their finance options as the costs are so low.

Sell your car privately, or to a local trader who retails similar age vehicles or the likes of WBAC? I did that last year when the main dealers wouldn't offer more than £2500 for my clean 2010 Avensis estate, in the end I went to a local guy who gave me £3400.

I've had my last three cars on a PCP. I suppose the downsides would be if you want to get out of it early and you haven't put a decent deposit down you could find yourself in negative equity, keeping yourself to whatever mileage allowance you've chosen, or if you let it run the full term, want to hand it back and there is any damage and you have to get into a debate over what is fair wear and tear (there is a guide to this within the pack they send you).

Good luck if you go for it, the ES appeals to me too. The issue of not having a really well-specced, non-sporting model isn't exclusive to Lexus.

[HarryM]

Even if you have the cash, always worth checking pcp deals, the dealers get large bungs from the manufacturers/finance house. You can get a large discount then pay off the pcp within 14days and be quids in! 

There will be an admin fee but your share of the finance deal more than makes up for it.

[SH20]

Currently I have a 2012 GS450h gen 4.   I have 3 quotes for a pcp and all are different.   3 part exchange figs of £15,250, £15,500 and £16,000.    3 deposits are: two  at £11,000 and one at £10,000.     Cost of car £38,650   entry model ES300h ,  £35,150 plus a Premium Pack at £3,500   in solid black paint.  If you want metallic it's another  £670 but sonic white and sonic titanium are a whopping £920 extra.  

A PCP will limit the deposit you can to pay so a cash back deal from a Lexus dealer is the only way you can proceed.  3 cash back deals in my case are £4,500, £5,000 and £5,250.    Term I asked for was 42 months with 8000 miles per year.    The 3 monthly payments so far are  2 at £298 a month and one at £344.    The 3 residual values or buy back figures at the end of the deal are £15,727  and 2 at £16,785.  

Incentives so far to place an order  are:  one dealer will give 5 years free servicing and another will do a Paint Guard Treatment.  The 3rd dealer who quoted  a £10,000 deposit has said it would normally be an £11,000 deposit so he says that is all he can do.   

As you can see you have to be on top of your game to decide who is giving you the best deal as they all have different opinions on how to structure a PCP.  

For me the 5 year free servicing with £5,000 cash back and £344 a month is overall the best deal for me as I would have set up a separate monthly  service plan anyway on the ES.

Good luck with your enquiries.

 

 

[Mike246]

Thank you all for your responses and Steve, for your candour. I would also be looking for 8000 miles/year and 42-month term on a variant which has leather, sunroof and the larger screen.

Inevitably there will be variations between dealers' offerings and as you say, you have to be on top of your game to get the best out of them. I am wise but after the event - more on that to follow. They will have to offer a good discount against a cash purchase but be unwilling to do so on a PCP where the monthly payment becomes the headline figure. So far as I know, this is illegal so the first thing they ask is 'How are you going to fund this?'

The idea of a service plan thrown-in is good and can become the deal-breaker. 

[SH20]

Hi all, got my fourth quote yesterday   £320 a month  £16,000 offer for my car, so with the usual max £11,000 deposit I get £5000 cash back.  Same term 42 months and 8000 miles.

Mike, as I understand it to get proper leather you have to have a Premium pack on the entry model, otherwise it's that rather obvious Taraha simulated leather.  The F sport and Takumi  have real leather and all models get a sun roof.  The larger screen comes standard on the Takumi and comes in one  option packs on the F Sport.

There is no discount even for a cash deal other than the standard £2000 deposit contribution.  Apparently Lexus really frown on dealers giving more money off the car so dealers opt to induce people with an alternative offer or offers, e.g  Five years servicing etc.  My experience  however  is that dealers are manipulating deals by discounting the car further and hiding it  in the maths of the PCP.   I'm waiting on a final offer from a dealer where I bought my LS460.  After that I want to move so I can order in Feb as lead times indicate a June/July delivery.   

 

[Mike246]

Looking at the detail of what you have written, it is all accurate. In my opinion the smaller satnav screen really spoils the ship, especially on the F-Sport so I am going for the F-Spot Takumi pack which gives some other goodies. The price of £ 4,000 is eye-watering but spread over a PCP it appears less painful.

So far as discount is concerned, the only way to 'get one over' on the dealer is to negotiate an outright purchase price (ie no px and no PCP) and get them to commute this to a PCP illustration. They should do this happily as they get a kickback from the finance company but this does not maximise their position.

I have not done this. What I have done is to get three dealers to provide PCP illustrations using their trade-in values for my present car and taken the best of these to move forward.

[SH20]

Nice choice Mike the F Sport with a Takumi Pack.   Too rich for me. I'm sure you have got it covered but I had to keep my selection below £40K as I don't want to pay £440 a year for 5 years before it drops back to £130.    Any car over £40K attracts this obscene stealth tax.   Even if a dealer worked the figures to get a car under £40K  DVLA won't let it be taxed at the lower fig of £130 as they know the list prices and option costs.

 

   

[Mike246]

Steve,

Er yes, I found out about this stealth tax a bit late on and can't say I'm happy about it. Put simply, it adds £ 25 per month to the repayments.

[rayaans]

The best way to buy a car today in the spec you want (this is very important and plays a massive role), is usually to use a comparison/broker site like Carwow or Broadspeed, take up the finance option as they usually tend to have freebies or deposit contributions adding to the total discount, and then paying the whole lot off. VW seem to actively encourage this practice. 

Otherwise, if you're not bothered by the spec or which car you want to drive, there are some cracking deals to be had on PCP. Think I saw a very well specced brand new Volvo V90 for £200 a month and a low deposit for 24 months. Was a steal tbh

[darrude]

The guy that did next to me at work reckons leases deals are the way to go and generally there are good deals to be had when new car in launched.

Could be worth as a comparison of nothing else.

[SH20]

Placed the order yesterday for the ES with Premium Pack.   No difference to the final 3 PCP deals as all included the 5 years free servicing.  However I pushed all 3 dealers further and got one to agree to a Protection Pack, a £400 accessory, winter rubber mats, boot liner and a stainless steel lip trim for the rear bumper.  One dealer  just said no and another asked if they could include it would I sign up.   As the second dealer said yes immediately the choice was made.  Wasn't surprised by the dealer who agreed to the P/Pack as he supplied my last car a  pre owned LS460 I bought in 2015.  Now that was a great car.  I'm told July 1st is when the car should come into the UK. 

Anyone considering a PCP  should be aware  that you have no equity in the deal even when you have   part exchanged a car.   The options are very clear,  1. trade the car in for another car after the PCP term is up,  2. buy the car at the end of the PCP or 3. give it back.    HP finance is different,  you only own it at the end the agreement but you have equity if you have paid money into the deal either with cash or a trade in.    My risk with a PCP is croaking before I get chance to buy the car which I intend to do.   My deal was a max deposit of £11,000 and £5,000 cash back so my £11,000 contribution  is lost if I default or die during the term.   Once you get past 50% of the payments including the 30% deposit you can hand it back without penalty.  At worst maybe an exit fee.      You can also overpay during the term but only after a qualifying period so Toyota finance  get a chance to make some money out of you first. I believe it's 6 months before you can start overpaying to reduce your monthly payments.

Lots to consider but I'm up for it. Never owned a new car ever.  Just had Company cars during my working life.   Took my front and rear dash cams out of my GS450h as I'm letting the dealer have it now to secure the trade in figure rather than trading it in June/July.  I have a brand GS450h (Gen 4,  2012)  boot liner going cheap if anyone knows someone with a GS.  I Live in Leeds, can't post it.  PM me if interested.   

 

[VinnyB]

SH20

i am in huddersfield and got one of the first  takumi cars in the country if you want i can meet you between hudds and leeds for you to have a drive 

i am now getting 52mpg which is brill 

vinny b

[SH20]

I've sent you a private mail vinny

Steve

[Mike246]

The responses on this post are interesting, notably the detailed one from Steve, SH20. 

Steve - I assume that you are buying from Lexus Leeds. I bought a car from them, an IS-250C which I still own. They are such nice people to deal with.

We all want to get the best deal that we can and you have to get up very early in the morning to beat Lexus UK and the finance companies at their game. The only way of getting a great deal is to be a cash buyer and negotiate the best discount or part-exchange deal you can. There are many Lexus dealers out there and they are hungry for your business.

Alas, most of us are not in that position. There are lease, PCP and HP deals which are tempting. The problem with lease is that it does not buy equity in the car however if it is a company acquisition, the tax benefit will look attractive. The PCP deal for the ES on offer has some merit - £ 2,000 contribution from Lexus, an APR of 5.9% and flexible annual mileage/contract term options. The opportunity to negotiate still remains, in terms of a px price, dealer discount and service plan - remember the dealer earns on both sale of the car and a kickback from the finance company.

I've never done a PCP before but this time I have. The PCP deposit is limited to 35% of the price of the car (including extras and statutory charges) so there may be an excess payment returned to the buyer which is nice and serves to give a ' holiday' on the first few instalments.

What is key to this is to obtain quotes from more than one Lexus dealer, based on the same spec, part-exchange, mileage and term. I went to three and the difference between the least and most attractive quotes is a massive £104 per month over three and a half years with minor differences in the eventual and optional cost to purchase.

[SH20]

Hi Mike, while Lexus Leeds (5 miles from Home)  did quote exactly the same terms as Carlisle and Sheffield  they couldn't stretch to the Protection Pack as well as the 5 years free servicing.

Carlisle supplied my previous car a LS460  and serviced and did the MOT for the 3 years I owned it. An outstanding dealer in terms of customer care.  No surprise therefore that the free servicing and a Protection Pack was incentive enough for me to choose them for the ES.   Sheffield were great too, currently where my GS has been serviced/maintained Outstanding staff in all depts.  A lot closer to me than Carlisle but geography  was not on my mind while I explored a PCP.  I'll always go where the deal is.  

I have been into Lexus Leeds and found them helpful and courteous.  

Two out of 5  dealers discounted the car in their PCP figures, something frowned on by Lexus apparently and if caught would face repercussions I was told.  This was over and above the standard £2000 Lexus contribution. Neither dealer though would agree a £16,000 trade in value so with the max deposit on my PCP at £11,000 I would not get  £5000 cash back.   Both these dealers wouldn't agree to any bolt on incentives like the free servicing and P/Pack.   

It seems logical  to think a cash buyer would control a deal, something I will  never be on a new car.  Like Mike says it's all about a deal and what works for all parties.  

[doog442]

4 hours ago, Mike246 said:

 The only way of getting a great deal is to be a cash buyer and negotiate the best discount or part-exchange deal you can. There are many Lexus dealers out there and they are hungry for your business.

 

That's Interesting but hasn't really been my experience of buying cars for the last decade or so and trawling the dealerships.Lexus rarely move on screen price either on a straight cash deal but you will often find a finance incentive and if there isn't one they will go out of their way to find one (even if it isn't officially listed as such)

I'm a cash buyer but finance is king nowadays. I've secured much better discounts by opting for their finance then screwing them down on the deal or part ex. I then pay the finance off as soon as I can and usually within the cooling off period. 

The finance route will open magical doors for you,they would rather you take out finance than pay in cash and that's where the Incentives tend to be on negotiation.

 

[YYB129]

Hi Steve,

not or looking to hijack, just a query about the a premium pack.  There are discrepancies between what the Press Pack says at launch, the current brochure online, and the configurator as to what constitutes a Premium Pack; for example Wirelss Charger.

Do you know?

 I ordered blind, lease, to replace my C350e Mercedes, as I treat motors like Christmas presents; and many more qualified bums have driven before I choose!

 

thanks,

Griff

[The_Doctor]

Hi all, newbie here, I also ordered mine "blind" (as a lease) but having had a CT previously and driven one or two other models I didn't think I'd be disappointed (and wasn't). I did sit in one in the US before committing though! I've also noted discrepancies in the online spec compared to what's on the car, mine is the base model - the configurator is still saying this includes wireless phone charger, rear screen blind and rain-sensing wipers but none of these are on the car. Brought this up with the dealer and got a dismissive reply that these are part of the premium pack (disappointing given the great customer service I've otherwise had) and then contacted Lexus directly with a similar "blah" reply. But minor niggles really as even the base model is pretty well equipped.

[SH20]

Hi Liam, I have assumed the current UK configurator is what we would get in this country as a Premium Pack.   18 inch wheels, leather, 10 way adjustable seats, heated, ventilated and driver memory.  Blind spot monitor, 3 eye LED headlights, rear cross traffic alert with auto brake and wood leather steering wheel.    That's what I'm expecting anyway.

The E  brochure is a world wide brochure and includes variations applicable in other countries e.g  the ES350h with V6 engine,   other trim options eg  bamboo wood trim so all in all  I'm ignoring the E brochure and expecting the configurator to  deliver  what the options pack lists.   The wireless smart phone charger is listed in the Takumi spec as I'm sure you spotted.    The premium pack adds approx £50 a month to a PCP over 42 months  but as I really wanted the Topaz leather, (similar to saddle or newmarket tan)  to go with solid black paint it was the only way to get that colour mix.   Lexus have never really bombarded customers with interior choices of trim, only 4 choices compared to 10 paint choices.  I still have the official wood, leather and paint selection kit for the 2007 launch of the LS460/600h and that only had 4 leather choices,  3 wood trims and 11 paint finishes to choose from.   Kept it because the LS was the best car I've owned to date.  Hope the ES exceeds  that. 

[YYB129]

Snap Steve, black with Topaz 🤘

Sunlight Green was so tempting, but don’t be fooled by my colour choices; I had a cashmere silver 5 series and have a gold Caterham in my menagerie!

I saw the information in the UK press pack, and the brochure from a Lexus UK; I wait to be surprised 😊

 

[SH20]

Yes Liam, green goes with saddle coloured leather for sure but for me it has to be a dark green paint colour like British Racing Green or Banarto Green used by Bentley in the 30's and reintroduced in the early 2000's.  Like the pics.   When I saw up close the Lexus Sunlight Green I thought it was just to pale and disappointing.   

[YYB129]

BRG and saddle or tan for sure. I had a Range Rover with similar.  Relieved that I didn’t tick that box; albeit a close run with the pearl white (I forget the name).

Last black interior I had must have been in the very early nineties with a Cavalier! Current is light grey, previously beige, I’ve a TT with what I can only describe as a mellow yellow; got to brighten the cabin, after all it’s what we see most of, not the exterior colour (unless you’ve a Fiat coupe from 2000).

[Habu]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:18 AM, SH20 said:

After that I want to move so I can order in Feb as lead times indicate a June/July delivery.   

 

I was surprised at the long lead in time but I’m now being quoted at July / August if I order first week in March.

Just need to go to Lexus Leeds this Friday and I’ll have 3 illustrations - assuming Lexus Teesside get a wriggle on.

Cheers

Habu