Battery bad luck

harrylime · January 26, 2019

In 2014, I bought a new Battery from Lexus for my LS 400, it became faulty in 2016 and was replaced FOC by Lexus. I suspect that this replacement Battery is now not holding its charge. Lexus have said that my warranty is 3 years from the date of the original purchase, so I'm out of luck. I can understand that they do not want to be replacing batteries FOC ad infinitum, but that is two Toyota batteries which have failed at just over two years.

Can anyone advise how much voltage drop I should expect in a Battery that is not connected up? I have fully charged the Battery and will be taking readings every day for a few days before committing to another new Battery

Tinonline · January 26, 2019

Oh sorry to hear. This is tricky. Batteries are good at expiring at the due time.

Disconnected batteries probably last the same time as a working one. I know it’s not logical and I stand to be corrected.

I’ve had great batteries that do well with little use connected up...and bad ones. Lexus ones are ok. I think 3-4 years...just buy a new one.

Herbie · January 26, 2019

There are plenty of other batteries out there (because you do know that Toyota/Lexus don't make batteries don't you?) with five year warranties. Have a look for Yuasa, Varta etc.

Check the charging circuit as well, it's possible that something wrong with the alternator could be killing the Battery prematurely. You should get somewhere in the region of 13.5 to 14.4V at the Battery with the alternator spinning. The chart below is 'standing' Battery voltage.

Jake430 · January 26, 2019

A good Battery should hold its voltage at around 12.5-12.8 for months in my experience.

Tulpen · January 27, 2019

I had the same problem on my 460 - 3 batteries in 5 years, all from the dealer. They spent a day checking the car out and found the problem...……...when the car was new, the original owner had fitted a tracking device, in case it was stolen. The tracking devices come with the first 2 years 'free'. Then you have to pay a subscription - which they didn't bother with. However, the device is still sitting there, using a small amount of power. Once it was disconnected, the problem disappeared.

By the way, the original owner was ANOTHER Lexus dealer - it was the demo car. 🙂

ambermarine · January 27, 2019

My car still has that tracking device fitted and as in your case it was originally a demo car that Lexus Cheltenham owned for the first twelve months,probably part of their insurance conditions it was fitted.

I have not found the connections or the device but I do know it still operates as it runs my Battery down after about three weeks if the car is idle,the documentation and contact information came with the car I have spoken to the company that operates the service and they confirm the car is connected and I can subscribe to the service any time.

If the car was worth a tidy sum I think re-subscribing might lower my insurance premiums but it is not worth it now.

I now keep the Battery in fine fettle with an intelligent charger that was designed to keep golf caddy batteries charged up and have been using it for seven years I got about three years out of my last two Yuasa 80 AH batteries,that's a far cry from the 10 years I got from the factory fitted Battery on my Mark 1 they don't make em like that any more .

Tulpen · January 27, 2019

Phil,

The dealer told me that it wasn't easy to find. The idea being, of course, that being hidden it would be almost impossible to disable. I think the thing that spurred them to find it was the fact that the new batteries, being under 3 year guarantee, were costing them money.

cruisermark · January 27, 2019

12 minutes ago, Tulpen said:

Phil,

The dealer told me that it wasn't easy to find. The idea being, of course, that being hidden it would be almost impossible to disable. I think the thing that spurred them to find it was the fact that the new batteries, being under 3 year guarantee, were costing them money.

A far cry from "modern security" systems where Brand new cars are being stolen in a matter of minutes with minimum fuss.

GrahamG · January 27, 2019

Could I suggest you take it to any Battery retailer and have it tested under load free of charge.

I have such a tester and have used it only a couple of times over many years so would not advise buying one. Have just realised my CTEK intelligent analyser/charger although not applying a load does analyse and gives a verdict on the condition of a Battery. Have two of these and definitely recommend having one especially as they are designed to be left connected long term and the Battery does not have to be disconnected from the car's circuit.

harrylime · January 27, 2019

I don't understand why the batteries were costing the dealer. I have been told that I had a 3 year warranty only, from the date of buying the first Battery

harrylime · January 27, 2019

I've disconnected the Battery to eliminate any Battery drain from the car. But should the voltage drop on a daily basis?

Mikaelse · January 27, 2019

I recommend a aftermarket AGM Battery . I paid 135 £
Self discharge much slower, accept charge much faster hence ok with short trips.
Longer life and better cold start performance. Survives deep discharge better.
760 Cold crank amps  and 70 Ah worked fine for me in winter here in sweden.
I get 4 year warranty on it, Had to adapt fixation to fit though. Saved a few kilos.

Tulpen · January 27, 2019

4 hours ago, harrylime said:

I don't understand why the batteries were costing the dealer. I have been told that I had a 3 year warranty only, from the date of buying the first battery

I live in Holland and, here, EACH Battery came with a 3 year guarantee. I'm afraid I don't follow the logic of 'from the date of buying the first battery'.

holiday · January 27, 2019

We have a 2014 CT200H and we are currently having a similar issue. The story begins like this we were on holiday for 2 weeks and came back and the Battery was dead. Rang up lexus roadside assistance and the AA came up and did his tests. Car came alive but didn’t shift to drive went through the diagnostics on his tablet and didn’t work. Informed us that the flatbed lorry would come on Monday morning which was fine. AA van came on Sunday night and informed us that storage facility was full. So on Monday morning the flatbed came again and informed us that a 2 man team was required as the car couldn’t start and had to block off the road. Car went to the lexus garage and Tuesday started the diagnostic process again. Found out the battery died. We authorised the change of Battery but still couldn’t shift to drive. So they did diagnostics again and couldn’t find the fault. Lexus compass had to be involved and found that the transmission ECU failed on Friday. So hopefully tomorrow (Monday) the part should arrive but they still wouldn’t know if it will work. Will keep you posted.

The cost of this Saga is currently going into £500.

Herbie · January 27, 2019

1 hour ago, Tulpen said:

I live in Holland and, here, EACH battery came with a 3 year guarantee. I'm afraid I don't follow the logic of 'from the date of buying the first battery'.

It's very rare for that to happen in the UK in my experience. Here, if something has a three-year warranty and fails after two, it is replaced with a brand new item but that is only given the remaining one year of warranty - it doesn't start a new three-year period.

EDIT - the following paragraph is taken from http://www.wheresmyrefund.co.uk/faulty-goods-replaced-do-i-get-new-warranty.html

Quote

Replacement Goods

Uncertainty sometimes arises when a product is replaced under a warranty. This does not mean that you receive a new warranty when you receive a replacement. In essence the contract that you make at the time of sale, which includes the warranty, is formed at the time when you paid the money. Issuing a replacement is something that occurs under the original agreement. It does not mean that you receive a new warranty. Therefore, it is important to be aware that your original warranty will expire on the original purchase, rather than the clock being re-set on the warranty at the time when your item is replaced.

BigBoomer · January 28, 2019

16 hours ago, harrylime said:

I've disconnected the battery to eliminate any battery drain from the car. But should the voltage drop on a daily basis?

No, Once fully charged and disconnected should stay at around 12.7 volts for weeks.
If it is dropping at all it has an internal drain and needs to be replaced.

Personally I wouldn't want a Battery that is behaving like that in my car as if the drain gets worse it can overheat the Battery and cause a split (acid everywhere) and even a fire in rare cases. A new decent quality Battery is gonna be under £100 and should last 5-8 years. Cheap ones can be had for less but they just don't last and are poor value for money.
https://www.battery2u.co.uk/results.aspx?part=068

Herbie · January 28, 2019

1 hour ago, BigBoomer said:

If it is dropping at all it has an internal drain and needs to be replaced.

That's not correct. All batteries, no matter what their chemistry, will self-discharge over time.

And I've never heard of a Battery drain - either self-discharge or parasitic - cause splits and fires. A short circuit would do that but not a drain of the magnitude we're talking of here.

Britprius · January 28, 2019

AGM batteries have a self discharge rate of about 3% of capacity per month. Flooded batteries tend to have a higher rate depending on the exact chemistry used. The rate is also affected by temperature to a small degree.

John.

Tinonline · January 28, 2019

Every time this piggy went to market to buy a Battery...local Lexus gave me a good price and unit does the job. I don’t do much mileage. The spec and cold start specs are spot on.

On wife’s Jag I had a well known carparts co Battery and suffered voltage leak. Also...it’s a known Jag fault so I freaked a bit until an auto elec said...no don’t buy those batteries. A common issue.

I wasn’t sure but said auto factor were very good and replaced unit with me paying few bob upgrade for a premium unit. Result? Sorted.

Careful what you buy.😉🤔

BigBoomer · January 29, 2019

On 1/28/2019 at 12:22 PM, Herbie said:

That's not correct. All batteries, no matter what their chemistry, will self-discharge over time.

And I've never heard of a battery drain - either self-discharge or parasitic - cause splits and fires. A short circuit would do that but not a drain of the magnitude we're talking of here.

Correct, however the voltage should not drop appreciably for at least a few weeks, as I said in the previous line.

If the drain is caused by an internal short then they can get hot and warp plates at which point all bets are off.
Fire is less likely with valved batteries, but hydrogen/oxygen and electricity are never a safe mix.