Ok, I’m in love with the ES

Habu · January 13, 2019

I’ve been for a drive in one today. Couple of hours and it drives as well as it looks. Smoother than my NX and quicker when booted in sport mode. More subdued noise in the cabin too. Seats better including the very long seat thigh extender bit. This was on a base model with the premium pack.

The thing I disliked was the very thick B pillar. There’s little view over your right shoulder but you could get used to it.

Quite a few more options in the cars settings than my 2018 NX (I should have taken pictures 🙄) but no Map button by the track pad. It was Home, Menu and Back.

Whilst the parking sensors were working there was no light on the dash advising they were on/ off.

I still love the car (particulary in Takumi trim) but I’m still not sure about the omission of apple CarPlay. Looks like the Mercedes E Class Coupe has stolen the ES’s lead for me.

RochdalePioneers · January 13, 2019

2 hours ago, L2XE said:

I’m in the same boat, it’s so close but the infotainment is big hurdle. The most irritating thing is CarPlay being available elsewhere in the world. At this point my shortlist is between the ES and S90, it’s the hybrid benefit of the ES against the infotainment of the S90.

SNAP - the exact same final two cars I am down to. I've just been out to the respective dealerships and sat in both. My thoughts:

ES: beautiful on the outside, exquisite on the inside. Lexus Teesside have a base trim + premium pack car which is what I'd get and I think I could drive to the moon and back on those seats without starting to ache. My gripe about the screen size and track pad felt like less of an issue because its gorgeous.

Volvo: would describe it as bold. Not the biggest fan of the rear end but prefer it to the G30 5-series (I had the previous generation F10 which looked better) and definitely better than the gopping E-class which looks like it has melted. Inside its enveloping, everything feels premium and the touch screen interface seemed fast and intuitive.

Then we come to the maths. Via Carwow I am being offered a bonkers 21% discount off a new T4 Momentum (3.9% APR). £8k off...! But I am want petrol, and I think I'll get mid 40s mpg at best on my 95 mile each way commute (almost all motorway). Lexus are offering 5% discount off ES Premium Pack and 5.9% APR to boot. Warranty wise both are 60k miles (or 18 months for me) but I can extend the Lexus warranty to 5 years / 140k miles and would expect it not to break. Can't extend the Volvo beyond 80k and their reputation for reliability seems to be behind them.

Habu · January 13, 2019

It was Lexus Teesside where I drove the ES today. Had an F Sport in the showroom plus customer cars in the yard.

dutchie01 · January 13, 2019

Ian, Volvo has a wider range of engines. from 190 up to almost 400 i think. Does that play a role in your choice?

i-s · January 13, 2019

I don't think you'll get 40mpg real world out of a T4 - most reports of the VEA petrols are coming in mid 30s at best. The same seems to be true of all of the 200-250bhp 4-cyl 2.0 turbos (eg BMW 530i, Volvo T4 and T5, Lexus 200t, etc).

Fuelly.com is a great way to see REAL fuel economy figures. A quick browse of S90s shows T5s (which will be very similar real-world to the T4 - similar weight, similar power outputs the vast majority of the time, same engine other than software, etc) coming in sub 30-mpg(UK) mostly. Here's a couple of examples:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/s90/2017/hilton954/620840
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/s90/2017/aneurin/818718

Meanwhile, previous gen ES300h are all kicking around the mid 40s:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/lexus/es300h/2017

Of course these are small sample sizes, and fuelly isn't very good at splitting out cars by engine (it's up to what people put in the description for a car like the S90, whereas lexus are differentiated by model number). There are variables like location, driving style, etc. Still, I'd bet on better real-world fuel economy from the ES than the S90.

I'm expecting to get mid 30s real-world from our GS. Meanwhile our diesel Volvo V70 got high 30s:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/v70/2011/isaachd7/228382

RochdalePioneers · January 13, 2019

Thanks for the tip on fuel - I live all of a mile off the motorway and then 2 miles off it at the other end, so the vast majority of miles will be motorway. And I have a gentle approach to driving which tends to make for good fuel economy. Being spoiled on that front by the Ioniq I've borrowed off my wife - it will do 60mpg without any effort at all...

Habu · January 13, 2019

Forgot to add that the road sign camera in the ES spotted all the speed signs whereas in my NX it’s a bit hit and miss.

ColinBarber · January 13, 2019

1 hour ago, i-s said:

Meanwhile, previous gen ES300h are all kicking around the mid 40s:

The new engine and hybrid system provide a signifiant improvement in mpg. The WLTP combined figures are 53 to 59 mpg (grade dependant).

New WLTP figures for the NX are 35.5 to 40 mpg, and for the IS are 44 to 50. Based on those figures I have confidence that the ES figures can be seen as something to expect in the real world.

6 minutes ago, Habu said:

Forgot to add that the road sign camera in the ES spotted all the speed signs whereas in my NX it’s a bit hit and miss.

The systems are all next generation. Toyota make a point in their press releases that collision avoidance, road sign recognition, ACC etc are all improved. Your experience seems to confirm this.

RochdalePioneers · January 13, 2019

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Ian, Volvo has a wider range of engines. from 190 up to almost 400 i think. Does that play a role in your choice?

Not really. I vowed to have ditched diesel when I sold a Citroen Grand Picasso 5 years back and I'm damned if I'm going to change my mind on that one... So its T4 or possibly T8 if I can find a used one (prices drop like a brick...)

i-s · January 14, 2019

15 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The new engine and hybrid system provide a signifiant improvement in mpg. The WLTP combined figures are 53 to 59 mpg (grade dependant).

New WLTP figures for the NX are 35.5 to 40 mpg, and for the IS are 44 to 50. Based on those figures I have confidence that the ES figures can be seen as something to expect in the real world.

Indeed. My implied point was that even the old ES300h would offer better real world fuel economy than a T4 or T5 S90. The new one should be better still.

14 hours ago, RochdalePioneers said:

Not really. I vowed to have ditched diesel when I sold a Citroen Grand Picasso 5 years back and I'm damned if I'm going to change my mind on that one... So its T4 or possibly T8 if I can find a used one (prices drop like a brick...)

Can't disagree there at all. The V70 was my first (begrudging) diesel, and my last. I'm very hopeful that the GS450h will be our last ICE at all.

RochdalePioneers · January 14, 2019

I've got a half day test booked for the weekend after next - can't wait!

Dumb question - does Lexus navigation do real time traffic...?

Steve44 · January 19, 2019

On 1/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, ColinBarber said:

Maybe take a look at the new Camry once it becomes available. It doesn't solve the size issue but the seats fold and is expected to be slightly cheaper than its Lexus sister so you should be able to get under £40k. Tech spec will probably be better than the Lexus, just with less quality materials but on a par with Mazda.

Infotainment system is still the issue, will have to wait and see what the new Toyota system is like, obviously very similar to Lexus with some differences between the two.

I don't think so, just don't like the Toyota styling and interior finishes. Have been looking at a new RAV4, but it really doesn't do anything for me style or finish wise.

On 1/14/2019 at 7:40 PM, RochdalePioneers said:

I've got a half day test booked for the weekend after next - can't wait!

Dumb question - does Lexus navigation do real time traffic...?

Lexus use Inrix Real time traffic, or at least as close to real time as you get. Its the same system as used in BMW and Mercedes I think. You need to connect a mobile phone to it and set it to use the data connection to get the most up to date data though, by default it uses RDS Traffic data from FM radio, which is very poor. Overall It is pretty good, but Google/Waze is still better still.

ColinBarber · January 19, 2019

9 hours ago, Steve44 said:

I don't think so, just don't like the Toyota styling and interior finishes. Have been looking at a new RAV4, but it really doesn't do anything for me style or finish wise.

In some ways I prefer the interior compared to the ES. Doesn't have the stupid stuck on Nav screen, nor the horns at the top of the instrument cluster.

Mike246 · January 23, 2019

Business Car magazine out today front page:

'LEXUS ES - WE DRIVE THE NEW HYBRID RIVAL TO THE BMW 5 SERIES'

That settles it. They are in the same market.

I'll let you know what they say when I've read it. That will be on Friday when I have a 200 mile train journey to Exeter. I'm blowed if I'm going to take my beloved GS300 out on a salty M5.

Dippo · January 23, 2019

It's here:

https://www.businesscar.co.uk/tests/2019/lexus-es-300h-takumi

route66 · January 23, 2019

From what I've read, I'm liking the new ES.

Some things I don't like however:

"Dark Purple" dashboard & wheel with Topaz brown trim option. See picture below in all it's awfulness"🤮
Only 1 "free" paint colour - black. Metallic paint costs an eye-watering €1,500 in Ireland
All ES300 Hybrids come with a spoiler it seems. I understand this does help aerodynamics but 🤮
The fuel tank is a tiny 50L - down from 66L on my IS300H

Comparing the ES catalogue with the IS300H, some other interesting comparisons:

The IS electric motor is much more powerful than that in the ES: 105kW & 300 Nm Torque Vs 88kW and 202 Nm. (The ICE in both produce almost identical outputs).
The ES is 310mms longer and 90mms wider than the IS. It's wheelbase is just 70mms longer so much bigger overhangs
Despite the bigger size, the ES's boot is just 4 litres bigger than the IS; it is however only 20 - 60 Kilos heavier

In Ireland, the base car is the Executive. Unlike the IS base model, this appears to have most of the essentials.

Steve44 · January 23, 2019

5 hours ago, Dippo said:

It's here:

https://www.businesscar.co.uk/tests/2019/lexus-es-300h-takumi

Love how they compare the residuals between Takumi and an “equivalent” diesel 5 series, saying the Lexus IS very poor in comparison. Any equivalent BMW I’ve looked at is about 10k more expensive to make them spec identical. Then you have the 900 or so Lexus says they wish to sell per year in Uk, versus the 900 or more per month BMW must sell into the fleet market......

Business Car mags own calcs on a std 520d says it will retain 38%, which incidentally is exactly what Lexus thinks the ES will retain.

route66 · January 23, 2019

I think I know where all the boot space went. Just looked at a YouTube video*

The ES only went and got a spare wheel ! All is forgiven 😍

* @ 2.38:

Steve44 · January 24, 2019

Not on European models! Tyre repair kit only.

route66 · January 25, 2019

14 hours ago, Steve44 said:

Not on European models! Tyre repair kit only.

Seems like it - as per this video (starts @ 16M37S)

HOWEVER, at least it appears to have room for a wheel unlike my IS300H. I wonder if a space-saver is available as an option?

nerdboy · January 25, 2019

On 1/23/2019 at 3:35 PM, route66 said:

From what I've read, I'm liking the new ES.

Some things I don't like however:

"Dark Purple" dashboard & wheel with Topaz brown trim option. See picture below in all it's awfulness"🤮

Only 1 "free" paint colour - black. Metallic paint costs an eye-watering €1,500 in Ireland

All ES300 Hybrids come with a spoiler it seems. I understand this does help aerodynamics but 🤮

The fuel tank is a tiny 50L - down from 66L on my IS300H

Comparing the ES catalogue with the IS300H, some other interesting comparisons:

The IS electric motor is much more powerful than that in the ES: 105kW & 300 Nm Torque Vs 88kW and 202 Nm. (The ICE in both produce almost identical outputs).

The ES is 310mms longer and 90mms wider than the IS. It's wheelbase is just 70mms longer so much bigger overhangs

Despite the bigger size, the ES's boot is just 4 litres bigger than the IS; it is however only 20 - 60 Kilos heavier

In Ireland, the base car is the Executive. Unlike the IS base model, this appears to have most of the essentials.

Go for the f sport

Nigel-Lexus Owner · January 25, 2019

On 1/13/2019 at 3:08 PM, Habu said:

I’ve been for a drive in one today. Couple of hours and it drives as well as it looks. Smoother than my NX and quicker when booted in sport mode. More subdued noise in the cabin too. Seats better including the very long seat thigh extender bit. This was on a base model with the premium pack.

The thing I disliked was the very thick B pillar. There’s little view over your right shoulder but you could get used to it.

Quite a few more options in the cars settings than my 2018 NX (I should have taken pictures 🙄) but no Map button by the track pad. It was Home, Menu and Back.

Whilst the parking sensors were working there was no light on the dash advising they were on/ off.

I still love the car (particulary in Takumi trim) but I’m still not sure about the omission of Apple CarPlay. Looks like the Mercedes E Class Coupe has stolen the ES’s lead for me.

I though just to mention about the Volvo cars being made in Malaysia and China since 2014 have a great effect on their reliability! Old Volvo's are strong made in Sweden. If you are buying new, it will have a warranty and if you are OK to have your car now and then in the garage for repair, hope all will be OK. I hope Volvo will provide a courtesy car during the repairs, so no problems. Just remember to either extend the warranty before it expires or sell it/trade it for a new one.

dutchie01 · January 25, 2019

Apart from the volvo S60 which is built in Kentucky USA all other models delivered in Europe are built in Belgium and Sweden ?

Dippo · January 25, 2019

They're built all over the place for different markets. Trump's talk of taxes on Chinese products means that some US production may be switched to Europe, and cars for the European market switched to Chinese plants. Currently, the V90 for the UK is built in Sweden, and the S90 in China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_Car_production_plants

Habu · January 26, 2019

Getting the wife’s Mazda serviced today I went into the adjoining Kia dealership and settled into the Stinger GTS. 3.3 litre V6 bi-turbo. The fit and finish was very good indeed and, like Lexus, every conceivable gadget and toy fitted as standard. Plus apple CarPlay.😗 The nav was excellent too. Very intuitive to use and clear instructions and visuals. Plus top spec GTS is £41k so a decent saving over the ES Takumi but I still really like the ES.😫