Ok, I’m in love with the ES

[Habu]

Went to Lexus Newcastle today specifically to see a Takumi spec car.  There was also a base ES in the showroom and a specced up F Sport for demos.  The Takumi spec is brilliant and outshines my NX Premier considerably.  I love the exterior styling, almost coupe like.  Inside, it’s a tech fest.  I love the auto heat & vent seats plus the auto heat steering wheel, rear seat control panel and 10.2” HUD.  ML audio is mighty and trim is impressive.  The noise reducing wheels are stunning.  The new spec steering wheels and interior door handles are very modern.  If only it had apple CarPlay.☹️

I will certainly consider the car later this year, sooner if Lexus resolve the CarPlay issue.

[Steve44]

I also popped into Newcastle branch today to check out the ES models. As Habu said they have a Takumi in I think Silver with Cream/Brown leather, an basic ES in Sonic Titanium with Sandstone and an FSport model with takumi pack in Graphite black with black leather.  The FSport and base ES are registered as demos. The Takumi is showroom only for now, apparently Newcastle is one of the few dealers in the UK with a Takumi model.

Cars are very nice, shape is better in the flesh, but they are big cars, bigger than a GS on the outside, but not that big interior wise. For instance the boot is just 4 litres bigger than a IS, yet the car is 1foot longer and this is depsite it being front wheel drive and the batteries under the rear seats!. Rear head room is better than IS, despite coupe shape. Acres of rear legroom, this seems to be where the extra length has been used.

Tech fest indeed, takumi's rear button panel for the seats, infotainment and climate in the centre armrest is great, the leather smells and feels fabulous, but the plastiky brown wood trim on the steering wheel, dash and doors put me right off and there sin't another option other than black trim in same places!

FSport looks good, bodykit suits it, 19" alloys in a dark metallic grey now, so possibilities of easier kerbing repairs (here's hoping!), seats are great, very comfortable, look superb but not leather, instruments a step up from IS FSport. HUD looks good too. 

Negatives for me - weird spec choices as standard, car isn't actually that big inside despite large external dimensions, FSport interior is very gloomy, even with a sunroof. Its black leather, black headliner, black trim and darkened rear windows. Red trim would be a must really imo. Still some odd and very small button placements. The Engine start/stop button is quite small and mounted low down on the left of the steering wheel for instance.

Will look at a 24hr test drive in the coming months.

[gdh300]

Saw my first ES at Lexus Reading this afternoon. Only mooched about the outside but man, yes: it is a big car. Not suited to nudging into hedges on country lanes, I'd suggest!

[Habu]

I want it for the rear seat control panel and switches to move the front seat passenger seat out of the way even though there will never be anyone sat in the back. 🙂

Be interested to see how the auto heated steering wheel works.  I miss the auto heat and vent seat button.  It was one of my favourite features in my GS F Sport.  I have to make do with manual buttons in the NX.  (oh, the shame).  And I love the new interior door handles.

[Steve44]

1 minute ago, Habu said:

I want it for the rear seat control panel and switches to move the front seat passenger seat out of the way even though there will never be anyone sat in the back. 🙂

Be interested to see how the auto heated steering wheel works.  I miss the auto heat and vent seat button.  It was one of my favourite features in my GS F Sport.  I have to make do with manual buttons in the NX.  (oh, the shame).  And I love the new interior door handles.

lol,  yes I know, I'd be tempted to put my Dad on the insurance so he could chauffeur me!  Though come to think of it, I wouldn't be able to prise him out of the heated rear seats!

[Mike246]

I want it, full stop. 

I saw one in the US at Lexus Palm Beach in Florida just before Christmas. My local dealerships at Hatfield and Edgware Road have each got showroom models in together with a demonstrator.

The PCP pricing will be very beckoning at just 5% or so with maybe £ 400 per month based on three and a half years and 8,000 miles per annum. So tempting. The good thing with PCP on a Lexus is that the residual value will be high and that keeps the payments down. I've never done a PCP but am thinking seriously.

What a fabulous looking car.

 

 

[nerdboy]

I picked up my fsport a week ago, came from an is300h fsport and have to say very happy with the es

[Hangie]

What kind of front brakes F Sport/Takumi have ? 

Rear armrest control panel look a bit cheap. GS ones was much nicer.

I also don't get that trend of stitches in plastic door panels 🙂

 

In general ES is taking the value of the GS which was under the bonnet to the "in your face" area 🙂 Most probably it will increase the sales volume but will not appeal to drivers like myself. I don't care about car play but would like to have more interesting drivetrain and brakes. Why you can't have takumi with adaptive shocks ? 

 

 

[Habu]

1 hour ago, Hangie said:

What kind of front brakes F Sport/Takumi have ? 

Rear armrest control panel look a bit cheap. GS ones was much nicer.

I also don't get that trend of stitches in plastic door panels 🙂

 

In general ES is taking the value of the GS which was under the bonnet to the "in your face" area 🙂 Most probably it will increase the sales volume but will not appeal to drivers like myself. I don't care about car play but would like to have more interesting drivetrain and brakes. Why you can't have takumi with adaptive shocks ? 

 

 

Agreed, it would be good to offer the 350 V6 auto as well as the 300h even though most people would probably pick the ‘h’.  Yes, I’m surprised the Takumi doesn’t have Sport S+.  Did the GS 300h Premier have S+?

[Zotto]

Yes.

[i-s]

I don't find myself a fan of the ES as a replacement for the GS.

In the USA the ES has run alongside the GS ever since the GS launched (as the ES came first). Although of similar size, they've been pitched differently in that market - the GS as the "Sports Sedan" and the ES as the "Mid-Size Luxury Sedan". 

The GS platform and engineering is very nice as Hangie alludes to - It was brought home to me by this article: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-lexus-gs-350-f-sport-suspension-walkaround.html 

Meanwhile, the ES is a Camry (well, TGNA-K now). That's ok, that has its place and that the ES has sold very well in the USA for many years is testament to that fact. The GS, however, is much more in-line with european tastes (much more akin to a BMW 5 or Mercedes E  under the skin). For us a big part of the appeal of the GS was the freedom from the torque-steer that plagued our V70. 

Perhaps there will yet be a TNGA-N based GS.

[i-s]

Styling is a subjective matter. 

I actually like the ES fascia and spindle grille - many people find it "challenging" -  but the same was said of the BMW E60 5 series. 15 Years later and the E60 looks much more modern than the C6 generation Audi A6 and the W211 E-Class. No, it's not the detailing of the ES that bothers me. 

It's the proportions. 

The ES styling for me high a high with the XV10 and MCV20 generations - the latter being very much a styling evolution of the former. I liked the minimalist headlighting of the XV10 (with the dual-projector setup being radical for 1991, and still pretty fresh and very much echoed in the LED headlamps of our GS) and the low fascia of that car, but the MCV20 had better proportions overall. 

The styling faux pas that the ES made really hit in the XV30 in 2001, and has persisted ever since. The very simple summary is that the front wheels are too far back - they are rammed up against the front passenger door (as many front wheel drive platforms suffer from) and then there's an overly long front overhang. The side-profile "pointiness" of the latest ES on the spindle grille sadly emphasises that. 

This is a point that Volvo have understood - P3 platform volvos (2006-2016 60, 70 and 80 series) suffered from the same thing, especially the S80. On the new SPA platform they worked hard to move the front wheels forward, and the result is some handsome cars - the S90 and new V60 are highlights, and the side profile proportions are excellent (admittedly the new S60 looks a little squashed-up around the back door, and the V90 is a little too raked in the tailgate for me. They're not perfect of course). 

Compare back to the GS side profile and you'll see that the GS has the front wheels further forward. Not entirely surprising because RWD cars design requirements are different and tend to push the wheels forward anyway, but the result is somewhat better balanced proportions. 

It's not all bad news for the ES - the latest version has definitely improved matters over the past 3 generations - the XV30 looked far too like a camry at the front and with an oversized corolla sedan back end. The XV40 was far too anonymous, and the bonnet line was far too high over the wheels. The XV60 had that same heavy front end, but the detail styling at least managed to alter that to a feel that was much more hewn and solid, like a smaller LS460 but still somewhat ungainly. The new ES at least loses that - partly due to larger wheel wells and larger wheels, but the styling has a feel for a lower bonnet and belt line. 

It would just look so much better if the front wheels were 4-6" forward and the rears maybe an inch or two back  within the same silhouette. 

[RochdalePioneers]

1st post so bear with me. I've been waiting for the ES to come out. Lexus makes sense to me on so many levels - they look amazing, they're reliable, they're different from the endless display of German cars.

I've been to see the new ES and it's an amazing car in every respect bar one. Why have they put a tiny screen in a massive bezel in everything bar the Takumi model? Ok I could have an F-sport model and add another nearly £5k to get it - but I want a big comfy cruiser not a massive wheeled monster.

I borrowed an NX from my last employer and loved the car but not the economy. I believe the saloons are much better especially with the new powertrain in the ES. So I'm all set. But that screen...?

[Hangie]

I’ve just noticed that Lexus is quite silent about one performance aspect. 

When you go deeper into the data you will find out that max speed is just 112mph! Am I right it is Prius area ?

it is probably due to transmission and fact there is no reductor there like in the GS.

 

i know not everyone in the UK will drive at that speed but imagine Central Europe area and especially Germany.

[i-s]

The GS300h has the same "limitation". 

[ColinBarber]

9 minutes ago, i-s said:

The GS300h has the same "limitation". 

Not quite as bad, 118/119 mph for the RC/GS 300h, and strangely 125 mph for the IS 300h. It is the front wheel drive hybrids that have 111/112 mph top speeds.

[L2XE]

Does anyone know what the CarPlay issue is? After watching all the reviews I could the new ES had crept to the top of my shortlist. A large part of that was CarPlay mitigating the ropey Lexus nav system.  Other than the lack of CarPlay I’m pretty much sold, is it likely to be included down the line? 

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, L2XE said:

Does anyone know what the CarPlay issue is?

There is no 'issue'. Toyota could easily of integrated that feature, but they have chosen not to.

They talk about wanting to be in control of the user experience, rather than apple, Google or amazon, but fail to realise their product becomes further and further behind state of the art. They wish to cling to a business model of charging £2k for an infotainment system, and having majority ownership of Denso and Aisin, who make major parts of those systems, are doubly affected by moving away from such a model.

They have relented in the US, I'm guessing because apple has a greater presence there and CarPlay is an option on all their competitors vehicles, but not in Europe - which use different infotainment systems.

I think they have misjudged the market. There are many people who now would choose their vehicle to suit their phone and lifestyle, rather than the other way around of old and they will lose marketshare because of their decisions.

[ColinBarber]

20 minutes ago, L2XE said:

Other than the lack of CarPlay I’m pretty much sold, is it likely to be included down the line?

I wouldn't be surprised to see it added on a yearly update or major facelift in the future.

I doubt they would, or even technically could, retrospectively add it to existing vehicles with a software update but that is a possibility.

[L2XE]

It’s baffling that a company that was so far ahead of the curve when it came to hybrid engines, can be so far behind when it comes to infotainment. I spend at least four hours per working day in the car, it’s like a mobile office. The infotainment and creature comforts are probably the most important aspects for me when purchasing. 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, L2XE said:

It’s baffling that a company that was so far ahead of the curve when it came to hybrid engines, can be so far behind when it comes to infotainment. I spend at least four hours per working day in the car, it’s like a mobile office. The infotainment and creature comforts are probably the most important aspects for me when purchasing. 

Reliability is the most important for me as I would not enjoy listening to music for x hours while waiting for the break-down truck to arrive.

[RochdalePioneers]

9 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Reliability is the most important for me as I would not enjoy listening to music for x hours while waiting for the break-down truck to arrive.

It can't be too difficult to have both surely. I'm currently driving my wife's Hyundai Ioniq which I have "borrowed" for a few months whilst we sort out a long term car for me. The Ioniq has a good built in system plus Android Auto. As a Hyundai I expect it would be reliable but I don't get on with the Dual Clutch box or the shape of the seats.

When I borrowed an NX from my old work I loved the seats and the build quality. I didn't like the fuel economy (seems to be a known feature of the NX compared to Lexus saloons). And I really didn't like the infotainment system which seemed to be bafflingly backwards. Try to scan through a list of DAB stations as an example.

So I love the ES looks inside and out. The seats will be amazing. It will be reliable. I'm just debating if I can live with a trackpad thing to drive a baffling system on a screen obviously too small for the enclosure its in...

[L2XE]

6 minutes ago, RochdalePioneers said:

It can't be too difficult to have both surely. I'm currently driving my wife's Hyundai Ioniq which I have "borrowed" for a few months whilst we sort out a long term car for me. The Ioniq has a good built in system plus Android Auto. As a Hyundai I expect it would be reliable but I don't get on with the Dual Clutch box or the shape of the seats.

When I borrowed an NX from my old work I loved the seats and the build quality. I didn't like the fuel economy (seems to be a known feature of the NX compared to Lexus saloons). And I really didn't like the infotainment system which seemed to be bafflingly backwards. Try to scan through a list of DAB stations as an example.

So I love the ES looks inside and out. The seats will be amazing. It will be reliable. I'm just debating if I can live with a trackpad thing to drive a baffling system on a screen obviously too small for the enclosure its in...

I’m in the same boat, it’s so close but the infotainment is big hurdle. The most irritating thing is CarPlay being available elsewhere in the world. At this point my shortlist is between the ES and S90, it’s the hybrid benefit of the ES against the infotainment of the S90. 

[Steve44]

For me there are a few potential issues before I will be in an ES.

First the sheer size of it, not sure I need such a large car. Second the size of the boot, the aperture and the lack of folding rear seats, after 2 IS, I need something more practical. Third the infotainment options or lack of them. Fourth, whilst pricing is keen compared to its competitors, my spec is over £40k, so attracts extra tax and the finance rates are at 5.9% which is pretty high.

ive been looking elsewhere and my head says a Mazda 6 2.5 GT sport Nav tourer would satisfy all my requirements and would be £10k cheaper and 0% pcp ......

[ColinBarber]

10 minutes ago, Steve44 said:

For me there are a few potential issues before I will be in an ES.

First the sheer size of it, not sure I need such a large car. Second the size of the boot, the aperture and the lack of folding rear seats, after 2 IS, I need something more practical. Third the infotainment options or lack of them. Fourth, whilst pricing is keen compared to its competitors, my spec is over £40k, so attracts extra tax and the finance rates are at 5.9% which is pretty high.

ive been looking elsewhere and my head says a Mazda 6 2.5 GT sport Nav tourer would satisfy all my requirements and would be £10k cheaper and 0% pcp ......

Maybe take a look at the new Camry once it becomes available. It doesn't solve the size issue but the seats fold and is expected to be slightly cheaper than its Lexus sister so you should be able to get under £40k. Tech spec will probably be better than the Lexus, just with less quality materials but on a par with Mazda.

Infotainment system is still the issue, will have to wait and see what the new Toyota system is like, obviously very similar to Lexus with some differences between the two.