New IS F is coming

[Fatts]

Twin turbo V6- exhilarating 

[Shahpor]

I really hope that's not what the front lights will look like...

[B1RMA]

Will this mean the end of the GSF/RCF or will they stay true to keeping a V8 N/A for those models. If not they mark the end of an era.

[i-s]

I think the current N/A V8 models are the last of their kind. 

You can't get a german N/A V8 anymore, and ever tightening emissions regulations push down engine sizes and cylinder counts, with forced induction taking up the slack. 

However, very soon the performance game will move to EVs anyway. 

 

[Womble72]

Don’t think there will ever be another true “F” car, this I think is the end of an era for the true V8 NA power plant........just wiz bang n whistles from now on 😔

[Fatts]

41 minutes ago, Womble72 said:

Don’t think there will ever be another true “F” car, this I think is the end of an era for the true V8 NA power plant........just wiz bang n whistles from now on 😔

Whilst I agree that most owners of current N.A V8 cars will bemoan the loss of the N.A engine, I believe we must see the reasons why manufacturers are going the turbocharging route. Porsche have done it with their latest 911 and if as expected this engine comes with the same state of tune as in the 2018 LS 500, then we would expect minimum 416bhp @6000rpm and at least 442 lb-ft@1,600-4,800 rpm. Thus the torque figures is a lot more than in the current V8, which is only 371 lb-ft@5,200 rpm. Thus I would argue that the new engine would be more powerful but may not sound as sweet as the old; but only time would tell. Happy new year to everyone.

[Womble72]

19 minutes ago, Fatts said:

Whilst I agree that most owners of current N.A V8 cars will bemoan the loss of the N.A engine, I believe we must see the reasons why manufacturers are going the turbocharging route. Porsche have done it with their latest 911 and if as expected this engine comes with the same state of tune as in the 2018 LS 500, then we would expect minimum 416bhp @6000rpm and at least 442 lb-ft@1,600-4,800 rpm. Thus the torque figures is a lot more than in the current V8, which is only 371 lb-ft@5,200 rpm. Thus I would argue that the new engine would be more powerful but may not sound as sweet as the old; but only time would tell. Happy new year to everyone.

Happy new year to all too,........with the state of the roads and the amount of cameras about these days,........for me it’s about the note rather than speed......the power will be more, the sound will probably be poor AND the reliability will be expensive.......can foresee a few turbo units failing at anything other than cheap......the turbo will never be a solid reliable item unless used in the correct manor and with a world that moves so fast people don’t have the time or better said don’t want to give it the time needed. Time will tell, I always think of the film “demolition man”..........lol........the big V8 being underground. 😂

[B1RMA]

I agree with the N/A engines it's all about the sound and the fact you have to 'work' the engine. A few cars ago I had a SL63 AMG the one with the the N/A 6.2 litre engine it was wonderful to hear it going up through the gears, I had booked a four hour driving course at MB World in which I had the later twin turbo version of the SL63, it felt a lot more instant and brutal than my current N/A car but driving back after the course decided I liked the old N/A car more. I then progressed to the V12 twin turbo AMG which was ridiculously quick once on the move but again it took the 'fun out of winding the car up through the gears.

I am obviously a dinosaur because I just love using all the revs on a N/A car. Plus having that 8 speed box and the paddles with the RCF/GSF is a delight compared to my previous cars.

Makes you wonder with the PR generated by the Men in Black movie and the possibility of the V8 being phased out the RCF may become a bit more desirable.

[Twellsie]

its still possible to produce V8's that will meet current and future legislation, (China 6 is a sticky point, given that it is the biggest car market in the world) but what has changed is the demand for them, unless developing an engine collectively with other manufacturers it's not worth the development costs for such a small number of cars

[Twellsie]

Just to add, this is exactly the reason I bought my ISF, we are very close to the point where these cars do not exist anymore, so want to enjoy it whilst we still can!!!

[Womble72]

Although the world are “supposedly” going green for emissions I’m also a “massive” believer that car manufacturers are using this to produce a cheaper option, the cost in the build of a V8 must massively outweigh the smaller unit, the V8 has a bulletproof history with no money to be made from failures unlike the smaller unit. A thought for all 🤔......has anyone ever done a forecast for factory emissions from the “lesser” car parts that are produced for the lifetime of it?

think the long term results would be interesting 🙄

[Twellsie]

7 minutes ago, Womble72 said:

Although the world are “supposedly” going green for emissions I’m also a “massive” believer that car manufacturers are using this to produce a cheaper option, the cost in the build of a V8 must massively outweigh the smaller unit, the V8 has a bulletproof history with no money to be made from failures unlike the smaller unit. A thought for all 🤔......has anyone ever done a forecast for factory emissions from the “lesser” car parts that are produced for the lifetime of it?

think the long term results would be interesting 🙄

the problem is the market for big V8 owners just isn't there anymore, the cost to develop a large V8 over such a small number of cars just doesn't make sense, especially when you consider you can develop a turbo V6 that will cater for anything from 250 to 500+hp just by changing pistons, rods and turbos and still charge a premium for the higher output engines even when their manufacturing costs are similar to the lower output variants given they have higher performance figures than the V8s they replace.

 

The v6/turbo V6 is the most flexible engine format for cars going forward hence why Formula 1 adopted it a few years ago

 

 

[Womble72]

5 minutes ago, Twellsie said:

the problem is the market for big V8 owners just isn't there anymore, the cost to develop a large V8 over such a small number of cars just doesn't make sense, especially when you consider you can develop a turbo V6 that will cater for anything from 250 to 500+hp just by changing pistons, rods and turbos and still charge a premium for the higher output engines even when their manufacturing costs are similar to the lower output variants given they have higher performance figures than the V8s they replace.

 

The v6/turbo V6 is the most flexible engine format for cars going forward hence why Formula 1 adopted it a few years ago

 

 

I could be totally wrong here.......but.......from my beliefs the big V8 was never an engine that was demanded, more the flagship of the manufacturing world when profits weren’t everything, obviously profits a must but manufacturers profits are being maximised at a loss of the flagship car.......I suppose it all boils down to profit these days, sometimes smoothness and power delivery outweigh whistles, neck braces and high revs n engine noise.........I think of my ISF as my coffin as to date there still isn’t a practical everyday car that I’d even contemplate replacing with.......and as things supposedly move forward I feel myself stepping back further  from the thought of changing it 👍🏻👍🏻

[Twellsie]

17 minutes ago, Womble72 said:

I could be totally wrong here.......but.......from my beliefs the big V8 was never an engine that was demanded, more the flagship of the manufacturing world when profits weren’t everything, obviously profits a must but manufacturers profits are being maximised at a loss of the flagship car.......I suppose it all boils down to profit these days, sometimes smoothness and power delivery outweigh whistles, neck braces and high revs n engine noise.........I think of my ISF as my coffin as to date there still isn’t a practical everyday car that I’d even contemplate replacing with.......and as things supposedly move forward I feel myself stepping back further  from the thought of changing it 👍🏻👍🏻

you are right, but that was a time when people were less concerned by the cost of fuel and the emissions regulations were non existent, catalytic converters were the chaining point, namely cat preheat, a lazy V8 from cold does not create enough heat quick enough to activate the cats, this means that you have to have very clever control on valve timing and fuelling (hence why we have port and direct fuelling) but effectively you are burning an excessive amount of fuel just to generate heat to activate the cats, which is pretty counter intuitive. Also start stop is a nightmare on a V8 due to its rotating mass

there was a time when nearly 50% of Range Rovers were V8s, they are now less than 10% with a large proportion of those being SVR variants owned by people that earn far much more than the common man, the market is just not there

[Defratos]

If it looks anything like that pic then I'm not interested even if it is faster or more powerful 🤢

[PhoeNicks]

Ha, I thought that too. I assume it's a mock up or Photoshop.

I figured the ISF would be my last V8 saloon. Though I also said that with my M5 and S5 (coupe). I just can't get enough of the sound and silky smooth power delivery. I'm pretty sure this time it will be last for me however, there isn't much else out there anymore. Emissions and manufacturers are killing them off now. I might be abke to still get one in an SUV down the road, but that's not ideal.

I'd be surprised if Lexus even have a v8 in the range for any of their models by the time the new ISF comes around. No-one really wants them anyeay, just us dinosaurs 😁

[Linas.P]

... those lights.... Prius on steroids...

Otherwise, it totally makes sense. Assuming Lexus is not dropping IS... mk3 will be 8 years in 2021, meaning same year we can expect standard range of mk4 and following year all more niche examples, they need replacement for GS-F as well, so IS-F makes complete sense. RC-F can continue covering coupe segment.

Secondly, engine option of V6-tt totally makes sense as well for several reasons, just maybe with ~600hp. So IS-F as entry model will have v6 and RC-F which is priced above and thus "more premium" would have V8. I would assume eventually RC-F would receive smaller V8-tt around the time for RC mk2 ~2023.

As for Germans without N/A V8s - they do V8's just not N/A... which is fine because V8 is still V8 and that is what matters, turbo lag can be dealt with whereas it is hardly an issue anymore.

The only question then what about LC, assuming I am correct and RC-F gets V8-tt, why would anyone get LC then? Maybe they will take SC move and just stop LC after ~6 years altogether, until the time comes to bridge some flagship gap and there is right market for it?

[st4]

I quite like the look of it and would certainly, if I was in a position too financially, consider one. Turbo V6 is still good. Not V8 good but a good fit for the size and segment positioning of the car where it would likely compete with the C43, Audi S4 etc. 

[st4]

On 1/2/2019 at 9:54 PM, i-s said:

I think the current N/A V8 models are the last of their kind. 

You can't get a german N/A V8 anymore, and ever tightening emissions regulations push down engine sizes and cylinder counts, with forced induction taking up the slack. 

However, very soon the performance game will move to EVs anyway. 

 

 

Maybe time to buy an RCF and LC500 if you have the money, I know I would if I could. 

[st4]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:55 AM, B1RMA said:

I agree with the N/A engines it's all about the sound and the fact you have to 'work' the engine. A few cars ago I had a SL63 AMG the one with the the N/A 6.2 litre engine it was wonderful to hear it going up through the gears, I had booked a four hour driving course at MB World in which I had the later twin turbo version of the SL63, it felt a lot more instant and brutal than my current N/A car but driving back after the course decided I liked the old N/A car more. I then progressed to the V12 twin turbo AMG which was ridiculously quick once on the move but again it took the 'fun out of winding the car up through the gears.

I am obviously a dinosaur because I just love using all the revs on a N/A car. Plus having that 8 speed box and the paddles with the RCF/GSF is a delight compared to my previous cars.

Makes you wonder with the PR generated by the Men in Black movie and the possibility of the V8 being phased out the RCF may become a bit more desirable.

You're right, they are more fun but most people just see numbers and go with that. N/A is fantastic but a mid sized saloon with a V6 turbo isn't the end of the world. It's quite a small car to have such a heavy engine over the nose. A V8 in the longer nosed GS, RC, LS makes more sense than in the IS. I'd love to see that V6 turbo in the LS without a hybrid - for a wafty luxury car that's a good fit.

 

RCF would be a lottery win car and the n/a engine makes more sense in an out and out drivers car you will want to proactively "drive" rather than "waft". 

[i-s]

56 minutes ago, st4 said:

I'd love to see that V6 turbo in the LS without a hybrid - for a wafty luxury car that's a good fit.

 

Already is:

https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Not in the UK, of course. 

[st4]

33 minutes ago, i-s said:

Already is:

https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Not in the UK, of course. 

Lottery win import car 😄

[B1RMA]

1 hour ago, st4 said:

You're right, they are more fun but most people just see numbers and go with that. N/A is fantastic but a mid sized saloon with a V6 turbo isn't the end of the world. It's quite a small car to have such a heavy engine over the nose. A V8 in the longer nosed GS, RC, LS makes more sense than in the IS. I'd love to see that V6 turbo in the LS without a hybrid - for a wafty luxury car that's a good fit.

 

RCF would be a lottery win car and the n/a engine makes more sense in an out and out drivers car you will want to proactively "drive" rather than "waft". 

I agree, but having had my RCF for a while now (and liking it more as time passes) I find it can do wafting very well indeed. I've concluded it's the AVS system, the other day I had a 200 mile round trip which included a fair bit of dual carriageway etc so knowing that the roads were littered with camera vans I decided to take more time leisurely drive so set everything for comfort. It compared very favourably to my CL65 which was a real wafter. On the way back I took the scenic route put it in Sports+ and Slalom on the TVD felt the suspension tighten up and had a good blast.

This car does both really well.

[B1RMA]

I'm guessing a re-map will be a relatively inexpensive way of upping the BHP on the new model.