Looking to get a Gen3 gs450h - buyers help?

[blueacid]

Hi Everyone,

I'm currently the owner of a 2004 Volvo diesel. It's still running well, but at 150k on the clock (85k of which were by me) I'm getting a bit bored of it and looking for a change.

The GS450H has caught my eye; since I live in a city, the whole diesel pollution issue is pretty important to me, and the fact that even Euro6 diesels (while allowed in the London ULEZ) are potentially still very filthy. I'm not yet willing to spend the money on a full electric or plug-in hybrid; they're still too expensive for how much I want to spend on a car: the volvo cost me less than £3k at 10 years old, and has really not needed much beyond a suspension refresh and then basic servicing - totally reasonable that all the rubbery bits needed replacing on a car that's travelled so far. The oily bits have worked faultlessly.

 

So I'm in the research stage for my next car - at this point (2019), what's the general consensus on these vehicles? They look to offer incredible performance, a very good spec and impressive fuel economy for what's effectively a large petrol saloon.

What I've so far learned is:

• Largely, they are mostly reliable, but there are some stories of the hybrid Battery needing some attention; the entire pack is a few grand, but often individual modules are what have failed. Companies exist that'll refurb the traction Battery for ~£800 by replacing the out-of-spec modules in the Battery
• The 2007 model onwards had aux-in connections on the radio, so 06/56 plate vehicles need an adaptor to play anything other than CD/Tape/radio
• The SE-L model pre-2008 had adaptive cruise, after 2008 you can easily spot it because it was 'linked' on the order form with vehicles that also had a sunroof (so that makes spotting the adaptive cruise quite easy on autotrader pictures)
• After August 2008, the boot got a lot bigger thanks to a redesign of the hybrid Battery, making it take less space but having the same capacity.. does this mean that a 58 plate onward should have a larger boot?

Is all of that fair to say? Since any of the vehicles I'd be looking at (2007-2009ish) would probably be out of warranty, is this a relatively safe bet, or should I be buying a load of brave pills and preparing for the worst? Obviously, reading around this forum there are a few threads telling sad stories of various bits failing; is this quite a widespread issue, or is this the effect of the owners club / review site coming through where you only hear the bad news and seldom hear the good?

 

Thanks for any advice you can all give!

[blueacid]

Oh and one more question, since I've heard a lot of conflicting views on the matter! What sort of fuel economy should I expect when on a long motorway run? Both cruising slowish (65-70) and when pressing on (75-90, not sparing the horses?)

Reading around it seems that I could expect highish 30s when being relaxed and low 30s perhaps maybe high 20s when in more of a hurry; sound about right?

[Britprius]

Hi Mark. Welcome to LOC.

I would expect mid to high 30s on a motorway run, but at 75 to 90 your not pushing it in any way. I drive twisty country roads with some zest, lots of. accelerating and braking returning the mid 30s. The lowest tank full ever was 32 mpg.

I would not be concerned with the Battery. The shocks are prone to leeking at around 250 each if you fit them yourself. Not difficult as a spring compressor is not required

The exhaust is prone tto failure at the rear Y pice. The rear section is around 850 complete about 1250. A purpose made stainless system is the way to go.

John

[Odysseus]

Hi Mark, welcome to the forum.

I used to have a Volvo S80 D5 and it was a fine car, but I can understand your desire to move on.

To answer your questions the MkIII GS450 is a pretty reliable car compared to the E Class/A6/5 Series competition but there are a few weak areas.  The main things to look for are leaking shock absorbers and rust around the Y section in the exhaust.  I think Battery failures are relatively rare, and providing you have a hybrid health check each year you should be covered.  But like you say £800 will fix it and you'll be right as rain afterwards.

I've been a 2008 GS450H owner for 18 months and I'm very pleased with it by and large, but there have been a number of niggly issues which surprised me.  You can read about these in my post about a year with my car.  I'm now 18 months in and in addition to what's mentioned in the post I've since had all the TPMS sensors replaced under warranty.

 

With regard to your questions about spotting adaptive cruise, the other tell-tale is the little extra button on the right hand side of the steering wheel that regulates distance to the car ahead.

On the topic of the aux port, I think the usefulness of this is limited.  I was lucky enough that mine came with the iPod adaptor, but GROM (and similar) devices are available that connect to the stereo and provide a far richer experience for not much over £100, so I wouldn't let aux or not get in the way.  I use a combination of my iPod in the glovebox and a £15 Bluetooth FM transmitter and get on ok.  There are plenty of reasons for wanting a facelift but personally I wouldn't include the aux port in them.

I didn't really look at pre-facelift GS450s, but I don't think the boot got MUCH bigger with the facelift, but the Battery pack may have been packaged differently to free up a few more cubic litres.  The boot is small though regardless, so despite the car being fairly large don't assume it's capable of carrying as much stuff as you might expect - think Fiesta sized boot.  Don't buy any GS450 (facelift or otherwise) if trips to Ikea feature in your life!

The thorny matter of fuel economy is a valid one.  Other people on the forum seem to get far higher MPG than I do (annoyingly).  On a slow (65-70) motorway run I'd expect mid 30s, and normal driving (like I do) I'd expect late 20s.  Over 18.5 thousand miles I've averaged 28 MPG, running on premium fuels with a full Lexus history.  In the winter the MPG will suffer and in summer it will improve.

Going back to your questions, the GS450H is a good car.  Quick, basically pretty reliable, quite subtle, and enjoyably different from the obvious competition.  I'd recommend one for sure, but remember you're buying a car that was nearly £50K a decade or so ago, so when things wear out they aren't going to be cheap.

Have fun looking and let us know how you get on.

[Farqui]

Hi Mark, welcome to the forum and it's good to hear that you are considering one of the best 'sleeper' that is rarely remembered.

I get 40+ mpg on a steady run and have averaged 35mpg over 2 years.

Mine is 58 plate MK3 and the boot isn't any bigger than a slightly earlier pre-face lift.  As already mentioned the boot is small which pretty much works for me and the mrs, I have roof bars and a rear box if we're travelling more than 2 up, although I've not needed to use both at once. If boot size is important then I believe the MK4's get a bigger boot but I haven't seen one in person to compare, the later cars also much more expensive.

I have an AUX-in phone jack in my center arm rest but I rarely use it.  I don't have any cassette tapes, so I've never used that.  The ML speakers/etc great tho 

As you've already found, the Hybrid batteries can be repaired cost effectively, there's also been a few reports of a pump failure that can be fixed cheaply rather than buying a new replacement.  

I've grown to really enjoy the CVT gearbox and the drive train gives one mighty surge when needed, I've never felt it's been short on power!

Have you driven one yet?

Good luck in your hunt and do keep us updated on your progress.

[blueacid]

Hi everyone, thank you all for your warm welcome and for taking the time to reply!

Seems very strange that Britprius is getting really good looking fuel economy whereas Odysseus hasn't managed such good figures, hopefully Odysseus's vehicle is an outlier and it isn't the case that you roll the dice with each vehicle as to what kind of fuel economy you'll manage!

I haven't yet driven one, I figured that rather than waste any of the dealers / private sellers time I'd do some research first; however having driven a couple of electric vehicles where there's no gearbox at all to speak of, I'd presume that the CVT in the Lexus is similar to drive? Of course, if anyone's in the North West and would be willing to show off your car in exchange for some fuel money & a few beers..!

I'm happy to wrangle a spanner to fix bits, i saw a thread where that pump bearing can be repaired. Looks like I need to keep an eye on the exhaust and be prepared for the cost of new shocks (or be lucky and find a car with a recent receipt for new suspension!)

 

Am I right in thinking that a facelift car will have the marginally larger boot? Is there a thread somewhere with the details of what changed in the facelift, and how to spot a facelift car from pictures?

Cheers!

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, blueacid said:

Hi everyone, thank you all for your warm welcome and for taking the time to reply!

Seems very strange that Britprius is getting really good looking fuel economy whereas Odysseus hasn't managed such good figures, hopefully Odysseus's vehicle is an outlier and it isn't the case that you roll the dice with each vehicle as to what kind of fuel economy you'll manage!

I haven't yet driven one, I figured that rather than waste any of the dealers / private sellers time I'd do some research first; however having driven a couple of electric vehicles where there's no gearbox at all to speak of, I'd presume that the CVT in the Lexus is similar to drive? Of course, if anyone's in the North West and would be willing to show off your car in exchange for some fuel money & a few beers..!

I'm happy to wrangle a spanner to fix bits, i saw a thread where that pump bearing can be repaired. Looks like I need to keep an eye on the exhaust and be prepared for the cost of new shocks (or be lucky and find a car with a recent receipt for new suspension!)

 

Am I right in thinking that a facelift car will have the marginally larger boot? Is there a thread somewhere with the details of what changed in the facelift, and how to spot a facelift car from pictures?

Cheers!

Take look at this Mark      https://www.motor1.com/news/17663/lexus-gs-450h-gets-a-mild-facelift-for-2010my/

Mine has returned 34.9mpg over 54,000 miles (on board computer figure)

[Britprius]

26 minutes ago, blueacid said:

Hi everyone, thank you all for your warm welcome and for taking the time to reply!

Seems very strange that Britprius is getting really good looking fuel economy whereas Odysseus hasn't managed such good figures, hopefully Odysseus's vehicle is an outlier and it isn't the case that you roll the dice with each vehicle as to what kind of fuel economy you'll manage!

I haven't yet driven one, I figured that rather than waste any of the dealers / private sellers time I'd do some research first; however having driven a couple of electric vehicles where there's no gearbox at all to speak of, I'd presume that the CVT in the Lexus is similar to drive? Of course, if anyone's in the North West and would be willing to show off your car in exchange for some fuel money & a few beers..!

I'm happy to wrangle a spanner to fix bits, i saw a thread where that pump bearing can be repaired. Looks like I need to keep an eye on the exhaust and be prepared for the cost of new shocks (or be lucky and find a car with a recent receipt for new suspension!)

 

Am I right in thinking that a facelift car will have the marginally larger boot? Is there a thread somewhere with the details of what changed in the facelift, and how to spot a facelift car from pictures?

Cheers!

Hi Mark. If you look at my fuel consumption figures you will find they are very much in line with those of members "Farqui" and "Royoftherovers".

The so called CVT gearbox is actually an ECVT, and is nothing like a normal CVT or torque converter transmission. If you Google Eahart prius PSD and scroll down on the page there is a working depiction of the basic system. You can move the sliders on screen to see how varying engine speed, and or electric motor speed how the system works with details of road speed, engine revs, and the two motor generators speed, and direction. It also shows how reverse is accomplished.

From this you will see just how simple the system is in reality. There being no gear ratio or direction changes of any sort even for reverse or neutral. The GS does have one ratio change for one of the electric motors that occurs at about 60 mph. This is to reduce the speed of the motor to increase it's torque. Electric motors "of the type used" generally have very high torque at low revs the opposite to internal combustion engines.

John.

[Odysseus]

In terms of my economy figures, it’s worth noting my calcs are based on the Fuelly Iphone app and reflect fuel used and distance covered rather than the in-car computer which typically reads more economical by a mpg or two.

Also 90% of my mileage is done on my commute where I’m either barrelling down country roads, zooming along a dual carriageway or crawling through awful Cambridge traffic, and I always seem to get poor economy in whatever car I drive (rubbish driver).

Latest stats from the Fuelly app are below.






Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[Farqui]

Goof point, my mpg stat's are actual tank to tank calculations and not estimates from the onboard computer.