Keep, scrap or save and get a 430?

[Matt1986]

Hi all. I've been pondering what to do with my 145k mile ls400. I love the car, or I love what I feel it could be. Mine is tired, suspension is all ready for replacement pretty much as she doesn't handle well and feels sloppy and has vibrations at various times and speeds. It's also got damage to the rear wheel arch and paint on the bumper which I'm told can be repaired. 

This coupled with the addition of new tyres, alignment, ecu rebuild and exhaust leaks and likely motor mounts and timing belt etc as well as faded paint and dreaded rust begining to show in some spots is starting to look extremely expensive. Oh and it's mot is due in feb. I'm worried it won't be worth it! 

Common sense suggests I scrap this one and buy a better one perhaps or maybe a newer 430? 

For the cost of buying another good 400 I could probably sort most of these issues and the new one would no doubt have some of its own to sort as it's still 20 years old. 

I want mine to ride as close to a new one as possible, feel right and safe at speed. I'm less bothered about cosmetic but am bothered that it's safe and sound. I think maybe I'm chasing the impossible and any ls400 is never going to feel as good as I want it to. 

Does anyone on here have a well sorted MK4 that can reassure me it can ride well and handle (sort of)?

Is the 430 a better car? I like the facelift 430 and it has more safety gear and toys than the 400 but is it as reliable? They are twice the price of the 400 as well. 

Opinions and advice to help me out of my paralysis would be welcomed!

Matt. 

[ColinBarber]

6-speed facelift 430 is very nice however won't be as reliable as a LS400 due to increased tech and air suspension.

[mrdoofa]

There is a lot more stuff to go wrong on the LS430. Air suspension, rear AC pipes rust, coolant can leak into the gearbox, blown speakers (especially the sub), double glazing delaminates, sat nav screens can have problems, Mark Levinson amps can fail. That’s just a few things off the top of my head!!! The steering adjust motors are still a weak spot. The 430 does feel more modern however and has far more room inside, especially headroom. As good as LS400s are (although they are by no means infallible or bulletproof!!!) they are now looking and feeling their age and feel like a big 1990s toyota which is essentially what they are!!! The 430 feels more prestigious if you know what I mean!!! I no longer run a Lexus after all the problems they’ve given me and money they’ve cost me, I now run a V6 Mondeo Ghia X and haven’t looked back!!! Condition is more important than age but I wouldn’t buy one with that has done lunar miles because we all know the engine can take it but mileage takes its toll on the rest of the car. Good luck and caveat emptor.

[The-Acre]

Why not do what a couple of us have done recently and go for a Celsior?  If you get a fresh import you'll get one with no rust and generally a better maintained car.  Most don't have the windows that can delaminate so no worry there. Radiator replacement is quick and easy, and the suspension issues you hear about are not as common as made out, plus used parts or conversion kits are plentiful.  I absolutely love the LS430, a good condition one still holds up today as a fantastic looking car.  Have a look at the recent post by "skyway" referring to imports.  The guy he bought his from has another coming soon with silly low mileage. The imports don't have the troublesome ML sound system either.

[skyway]

If I am going to be totally honest buying the celsior was the best thing I could have done car wise although it would have been much better if I had bought one instead of my 1st ls430

Yeah I am told the next one coming in has 90 thousand kilometers on it which I think is 56 thousand miles with no salt on the roads also a chance of it being on coils as was mine.

Personally I have thrown a lot of cash at my last two 430's enough to easily  buy a really nice celsior and it was painful (engine mounts... worst job ever), I am happy to pay out on a nice car but saving a car is In my humble opinion is not worth it unless its rare as rocking horse poo.

Things done on my last car: 

engine gearbox rear diff mounts

new condenser sorting out aircon

new rear diff

new discs , brakes 

two alternators and a power steering pump 

steering rack

timing belt

new coil packs and plugs

problems with lights

mostly done in the cold and rain

and much more all bought to you by being and idiot buying a car because I wanted to save it.

 

sorry I rambled on I get a bit emotional about that car

Could always get a ls400 import still a celsior just less to go wrong.

[Stupot]

I'm in much the same predicament as Matt.

My LS400 was in lovely condition at 120k with a new cambelt when I sold it nearly 4 years ago to a good friend. I had to get an estate car for work! Doh!!

I've just bought it back off him, but the car is in much reduced circumstances bodywork wise as he had a slow head to head in the snow which has crumpled a wing, major scratches and a hole in the bumper and a big dent in the door from an argument with a car park bollard. It's also now at 160k miles. Accordingly, it was a cheap re-buy, so I'm not complaining. And the good news is I grinned from ear to ear driving all the way back home down the M5, loving being back in the best car I have ever driven. But then the reality sets in... just had to buy 4 new tyres... looking at the ECU capacitor fix as there have been a few sporadic gremlins pointing in that direction, needs a new suspension coil, brake pads etc etc.

Like Matt, I'm not that bothered about the exterior cosmetics, but I have to be realistic about the relative wisdom in investing in a battered looking LS400... and now that I have fallen back in love with my Lex... I find myself wanting to find another good condition lower mileage LS400 that I will feel good about pouring the money into... those are now rare and in my opinion they are often overpriced. So I'm also looking at good LS430's, but aware of the problem areas of the 430 as has been pointed out. The import does sound like an interesting option, especially if it comes without the air suspension.

[ambermarine]

Mathew

I have a well sorted Mark 4 that runs like it left the factory yesterday  because it as only 40k on the clock and dismisses the argument that these cars do not benefit from being lightly used.There is not a suspension part that lasts forever and the very extreme torques and frictions the parts go through will tell on the dynamics of the car with age.

I had previous to this car a mark 1 that I owned for 16 years which I got with 50k on the clock when I sold it with 180k on the clock it was suffering with all the ailments yours has despite replacement of all the oca's and trailing arm bushes.Quite simply she was tired and did not justify a complete rebuild due to rust which I do not have on the mark 4.

As good as these cars are they are a mechanical object and have in the end all the frailties that mechanics bring .

The chances of picking up a Mark 4 in mint condition are virtually nil and it looks like you will have to heed the advice of those members who are better qualified than I on replacing with a Celsior which after all do come from a better environment.

[Matt1986]

Happy new year! Thank you all for your sage advice everyone. I feel you have generally confirmed my own thoughts that it's foolish to try and "save" one of these cars. I do have history with this attitude towards cars, trying to restore them to some degree. 

I do think an import is probably the most sensible idea if I want a very good condition example of either a 400 or 430 and I have seen some amazing examples online in the past. With the imports can the sat Nav unit be swapped out for a UK spec one so the buttons on it are in English?

The first ls400s I test drove was a celcior and it was beautiful. 

So I'll try and get mine through its not and sell it on I think. Frustrating as I've spent a lot on it over the last couple of years. 

How much should I expect to pay for a low mileage import buy the time I've dealt with shipping etc? 

[skyway]

I was lucky enough to find on on ebay  there are people who buy imported cars alot and would know a lot more.. I did look at a website for importing and it seemed to have some really good reviews by normal car buyers and trade who use it to, there is also come great videos that explain everything really well.

Hope I am not breaking and rules posting this... I am not in anyway tied to this site.

https://www.autoaccessjapan.com/#

 

[Malc]

I'm quite impressed with the million miler Ls400 in the USA  ...............  whatever you spend on your car will never be value for money in the real world ....  it's just whatever it is you want to do and to ride in 

for me it's my 217k  Mk3 right now............ . new cambelt, UCAs and all   oh, and plenty of £££££

Malc

[The-Acre]

2 hours ago, Matt1986 said:

Happy new year! Thank you all for your sage advice everyone. I feel you have generally confirmed my own thoughts that it's foolish to try and "save" one of these cars. I do have history with this attitude towards cars, trying to restore them to some degree. 

I do think an import is probably the most sensible idea if I want a very good condition example of either a 400 or 430 and I have seen some amazing examples online in the past. With the imports can the sat Nav unit be swapped out for a UK spec one so the buttons on it are in English?

The first ls400s I test drove was a celcior and it was beautiful. 

So I'll try and get mine through its not and sell it on I think. Frustrating as I've spent a lot on it over the last couple of years. 

How much should I expect to pay for a low mileage import buy the time I've dealt with shipping etc? 

Easy enough to swap sat nav for a UK one, fairly easy job and not to costly should you go to Herr Frost. If you've never tried an LS430 why not just take one for a test drive?  Why not contact the guy in London who has another coming soon?  His prices I have to say really are very good.

[messi]

There's a nice white mk4 import ls400 for sale on eBay. I had an import mk4 ls400 some years ago and yes it had air suspension but I didn't have any issues with it. But you will get issues with an ls430, although the ls430 is a nice car, it's not trouble free at all, there's a whole list of issues the ls430 has including rust on the front doors. I'd stick with an ls400 unless you buy an ls430 of someone who has addressed the issues they come with.

[skyway]

Matt where are you in Staffordshire?

[The-Acre]

17 minutes ago, messi said:

There's a nice white mk4 import ls400 for sale on eBay. I had an import mk4 ls400 some years ago and yes it had air suspension but I didn't have any issues with it. But you will get issues with an ls430, although the ls430 is a nice car, it's not trouble free at all, there's a whole list of issues the ls430 has including rust on the front doors. I'd stick with an ls400 unless you buy an ls430 of someone who has addressed the issues they come with.

The rust on the doors isn't likely to be there with an import.  

[Matt1986]

9 minutes ago, skyway said:

Matt where are you in Staffordshire?

I'm in Newcastle under Lyme just next to j15 of the M6.  

[Matt1986]

I have to say I do like the idea of an import. I love the wool seats you get in some. They seem to wear much better than the leather and better for our climate really. The imported ls400 I test drove once had them and they were so comfy!

[The-Acre]

10 minutes ago, Matt1986 said:

I have to say I do like the idea of an import. I love the wool seats you get in some. They seem to wear much better than the leather and better for our climate really. The imported ls400 I test drove once had them and they were so comfy!

I really like the wool in mine, much more like the armchairs at home, and not cold or hot like leather.  They do come with odd quirks though.  Mine has everything you could want in the rear seats, massage, reclining, air con etc, and even your own cassette player, but no heated front seats!  Obviously everything is designed around the people being driven and not the driver.

[i-s]

That may also be to do with where the car was ordered/delivered in Japan. 

If the car was ordered for southern Honshu or for Shikoku or Kyushu islands then many people would forego an option like heated seats as the winters are mild. Some vehicles in those regions are even delivered with less/no undersealing (was the case with some mitsubishi models), as they are unlikely to encounter salt. 

Conversely, a car for northern Honshu or Hokkaido would be more likely to have heated seats specified as winters are much colder. However, we'd be less likely to see such a car imported here as a grey import as it wouldn't have the low rust that we'd be looking for to bother bringing a used car over. 

[The-Acre]

23 minutes ago, i-s said:

That may also be to do with where the car was ordered/delivered in Japan. 

If the car was ordered for southern Honshu or for Shikoku or Kyushu islands then many people would forego an option like heated seats as the winters are mild. Some vehicles in those regions are even delivered with less/no undersealing (was the case with some mitsubishi models), as they are unlikely to encounter salt. 

Conversely, a car for northern Honshu or Hokkaido would be more likely to have heated seats specified as winters are much colder. However, we'd be less likely to see such a car imported here as a grey import as it wouldn't have the low rust that we'd be looking for to bother bringing a used car over. 

Good points.  And the underseal thing is certainly something I'll be looking at soon.  My undercarriage looks no less than 3 years old, not even a rusty nut or washer. I'm sure our salty winters will soon change that!

[Matt1986]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

Good points.  And the underseal thing is certainly something I'll be looking at soon.  My undercarriage looks no less than 3 years old, not even a rusty nut or washer. I'm sure our salty winters will soon change that!

Mine has definitely got more than a couple of rusty nuts! I think I'll just run mine until it fails it's MOT and scrap it for parts at that point. Might have to wait a bit to save for another good import. Would be nice to have one that's worth keeping nice rather than save another basket case from the crusher

[Matt1986]

Does anyone know any good sites to look for imported ones?

[The-Acre]

6 minutes ago, Matt1986 said:

Mine has definitely got more than a couple of rusty nuts! I think I'll just run mine until it fails it's MOT and scrap it for parts at that point. Might have to wait a bit to save for another good import. Would be nice to have one that's worth keeping nice rather than save another basket case from the crusher

Here's a glimpse of my bottom! As far as good sites go I guess it depends on whether you're looking to do the importing yourself or whether you prefer to have it all done and with the car UK registered.

 

[Matt1986]

30 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

 

 

31 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

Here's a glimpse of my bottom! As far as good sites go I guess it depends on whether you're looking to do the importing yourself or whether you prefer to have it all done and with the car UK registered.

 

That's very clean underneath! Mines not often that clean on the side you see haha! 

I imagine there's a saving on doing it all yourself but I also would think that there are lots of additional costs that I may be unaware of. At least if I get a UK one that's already here I know what I'm paying to start with. I saw the dark blue 430 that the seller skyway got his from is selling. Very nice and seems a good price. Do you have to convert the Speedo to mph? 

[skyway]

I am only up the road from you If you wanna have a look at mine sometime, I am just south of crewe

[The-Acre]

4 minutes ago, Matt1986 said:

 

That's very clean underneath! Mines not often that clean on the side you see haha! 

I imagine there's a saving on doing it all yourself but I also would think that there are lots of additional costs that I may be unaware of. At least if I get a UK one that's already here I know what I'm paying to start with. I saw the dark blue 430 that the seller skyway got his from is selling. Very nice and seems a good price. Do you have to convert the Speedo to mph? 

Mine came already done but easy to buy a used unit and reset the mileage.