Noisier than I expected. Is this normal?

[olliesgrandad]

14 hours ago, Rhub said:

I said I would let you know how I got on with tackling the noise issue I was struggling with. Well, here goes.

I went out with a mechanic from my local trusted garage and he could hear lots of road noise but didn't think there was anything else to worry about. We had the car up on a ramp as well and he confirmed that the wheel bearings were absolutely fine  and that the car was in exceptionally good condition for its age. I therefore decided to bite the bullet on buying new tyres and went for four Michelin Cross Climate which several people on various forums, including this one, recommenced as quiet tyres. I am very pleased with them and they are definitely quieter than what I had on before BUT there was still a whooshing noise which I didn't think should be there.

I couldn't identify where the noise was coming from other than it was near the side window. I wondered if I could stuff something in the widow seal to see if that made a difference and found some little polystyrene packaging chips which fitted snugly in the channel along the bottom of the window. I was convinced that it made the car quieter bit was obviously entirely impractical! My next move was to buy some black tubing off Ebay which I cut to the right length and fitted in the channel. I bought 15mm external diameter and this lay quite well half in and half out of the channel. I've attached a photo of how it looks. When I first went out to see if it made a difference, I was disappointed that I could still hear the whooshing but I then noticed that a bit of tubing had lifted it up. I put a finger on it and it was a true revelation! The noise stopped instantly. I had discovered the source of my irritation. For whatever reason, the window seal in the driver's door was not providing a proper seal. 

I got my wife to drive the car while I did the same with the other doors. It turned out that the windows in the passenger door and the rear door on the passenger's side were also noisy. The rear door behind the driver's seat was fine. I have spoken to the parts department at my nearest main dealer and was not surprised to learn that the seals are over £100 each and that the labour to replace just one would come to about £200. I don't think this is an option! So, I am sourcing some slightly smaller diameter tubing which I think will be less obtrusive and which I hope will still perform the same role as my original tube. 

I know that this all seems highly unlikely given Lexus's reputation for the quietness of their cabins. I am as bemused by this as was the man I spoke to in the parts department. He had never come across this problem before. All I can say is that I have incontrovertible evidence now that I have not been imagining the problem. I have been able to make a recording which clearly demonstrates the difference when the tubing makes a snug fit and when a little bit of it lifts up. Even my wife, who has been watching my antics in amazement for the last few weeks, now admits that the difference is stark.

I hope this may be of some interest to somebody else who is unfortunate enough to experience the same problem at some point in the future. I cannot believe that I can be the only person in the UK to have worn window seals? 

Rather than your solution I would guess that the window seals may have hardened. 

When I had convertibles I used a product called gummi phledge. This is a liquid which softens hardened rubber seals to stop noise and ensure better seal. It does not harm the seals but causes the rubber to soften so it returns eits original profile. It is something I know that BMW use. I believe it is available from amazon. 

I have used it successfully to stop leaks between convertible hoods and windows on both BMW and Mercedes. 

It may be a cost  effective option 

[Rhub]

Thanks for the suggestion about gummy phledge. I will certainly give it a try.

At Herbie's prompting, I have attached a file with a brief recording of the noise. Every five seconds or so, I was pressing the tubing down so that the noise stops. You should be able to detect the difference but I apologise for the quality of the recording which was made on my phone.

Intermittent whooshing

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Rhub said:

Thanks for the suggestion about gummy phledge. I will certainly give it a try.

It also has the benefit of stopping the seals sticking so you can open your doors in freezing weather. Just don't use too much and avoid rubbing against the seals with your clothes.

[GrahamG]

On the USA owners club site you would be advised to apply Honda Shin-Etsu silicone to all your seals. It is expensive, about £20 a tube, but can now be bought here.

Silicone is good for all rubber/plastic seals and there are numerous reports of old cars becoming much quieter when seals become softer, more subtle and simply fit better.

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, Rhub said:

Thanks for the suggestion about gummy phledge. I will certainly give it a try.

At Herbie's prompting, I have attached a file with a brief recording of the noise. Every five seconds or so, I was pressing the tubing down so that the noise stops. You should be able to detect the difference but I apologise for the quality of the recording which was made on my phone.

Intermittent whooshing

Wow, that makes an amazing difference!

I too have used Nextzett Gummi Pflege and it's really good. Here's a link to it on Amazon

[Rhub]

Cheers Herbie - I've ordered some.

[GSLV6]

Good that you got to the bottom of things Rob.  Our 450h is certainly very quiet in the cabin.  I echo other's thoughts on tyres too.....OE fitment Dunlops = bad, just about anything else = better!  Michelins (Cross Climate and Primacy) and Avon ZX7s are popular amongst RX owners for good reason.

Seals can harden with age or age badly in certain environments, especially if left in strong sunlight a lot of the time.  I regularly go round all my door seals with silicone grease (eBay....£2.50 or so a tube which will last years) and ensure that after cleaning, seals are thoroughly rubbed with silicone grease to keep the rubber in good condition.  I do the same for bonnet seals and the rear tailgate seals and this does seem to keep everything in good order.  For obvious reasons, you cannot (and should not) grease any part of a seal contacting glass, but I guess rubbing some carefully along the outside may help prolong their life.  I do this with all our cars.

 

[Rhub]

Thanks Paul. 

[Rhub]

I thought I would complete the saga of tackling the whooshing noise which I had located to the lower window seals on three of the doors. I experimented with various diameters of black tubing which I bought on eBay and discovered that 11 mm external diameter fitted best on two doors and 9 mm on the other one. I used a Stanley knife to trim the ends so that they would fit nicely on the bit of black sponge which was at the end of each channel and simply slid the tubing in to make a nice fit. I have posted a couple of photos. In one you can see how the ends were cut. In the other you can see the process of pushing the tubing into the channel and how it is completely invisible once it is in place. It does the trick by exerting a bit of extra pressure on the original seal so that it sits snugly up against the glass. The job took about ten minutes to do all three windows. The windows still work perfectly and the awful noise has gone. The car is an absolute delight to drive now.

[GrahamG]

Rob, excellent diagnosis and perfect cure. We salute you.

[Rhub]

Thank you Graham - much appreciated!