Not so merry xmas - Check Hybrid System and VSC 2006 400h

[Lozsta]

Private sale so no warranty. 

I had loaded the car up and was setting off for the in laws. The car suddenly pings with the amber warnings of the sliding car and an amber brake warning by the C of the temp gauge. The Middle dial display then says "Check Hybrid System" and "VSC something". There was also an "AFS(?)" warning light amber flashing on the right hand dial.

I limped to the lexus dealership but being it was Sunday the service department was not working. When I started the car again the warning triangle was red so I limped home as i was unable to get the dealer to check it per the manual.

I touched the brake disks and the fronts were very hot (could be touched but not for long) the backs were warm but not massively.

Anyone had any experience like this?

Any advice?

[Britprius]

3 hours ago, Lozsta said:

Private sale so no warranty. 

I had loaded the car up and was setting off for the in laws. The car suddenly pings with the amber warnings of the sliding car and an amber brake warning by the C of the temp gauge. The Middle dial display then says "Check Hybrid System" and "VSC something". There was also an "AFS(?)" warning light amber flashing on the right hand dial.

I limped to the lexus dealership but being it was Sunday the service department was not working. When I started the car again the warning triangle was red so I limped home as i was unable to get the dealer to check it per the manual.

I touched the brake disks and the fronts were very hot (could be touched but not for long) the backs were warm but not massively.

Anyone had any experience like this?

Any advice?

Without the fault codes it is difficult to give any reason for the warnings. I can say that the reason for the brakes being hot is most likely due to the fact that regen braking is not working due to the hybrid fault. Regen braking is normally used to slow the car producing electricity to put back into the high voltage Battery. This means the mechanical brake system has to work harder than it normally would.

The problem could be something simple, but be prepared for Lexus to charge £100 or more just for diagnostics. It is worthwhile to invest for the future in a Mini VCI with an old laptop to be able to do your own diagnostics available on the Bay for around £20. A low 12 volt Battery at start up can give rise to many false  problems, but these disappear once the car has been started, and the Battery gains charge. 

John.

[Britprius]

Was the display showing electricity going back into the Battery on over run? and was the Battery display going up, and down in the number of charge bars shown? while being driven.

John.

[Lozsta]

1 hour ago, Britprius said:

Was the display showing electricity going back into the battery on over run? and was the battery display going up, and down in the number of charge bars shown? while being driven.

John.

Thanks for your replies. The display was still showing the Battery and the other flowing paths. Yes when coasting it looked like it was sending current back from the look of it. However I couldn't see if it was running from Battery on dial in front of you.

[Rutlandlex]

The AFS is nothing to do with the hybrid system, it is the headlight auto-levelling and cornering system.  The chances are that the rear suspension level sensor has snapped causing the flashing light on the dashboard.  I drove mine around for several weeks like this before I got round to fixing it.  It just means that the headlights don’t swivel and they stay at a fixed level so you will probably dazzle oncoming traffic with a heavy load in the boot.  I kept my boot empty so I didn’t get anyone flashing their lights at me.  All it needs is some thread and a couple of ball joints to make a new one.  A Lexus dealer will happily relieve you of £500 for this but I fixed mine for the princely sum of £12.

As for the hybrid issue of course that could be any component of the hybrid system but when I took mine for a service at a local Indy recently they pointed out that I have a corroded wiring loom going into the rear diff.  I don’t have any issues at present but if mine throws a hybrid error then I would suspect that it is due to this.  I would of course get the fault codes read first.

I have attached a photo of what mine looks like.  I’m not sure if that is causing your problem but the loom runs underneath the car on the outside so it is susceptible to corrosion from road salt and as your car is an older one then there is a fair likelihood that it could be this.  The hybrid components are extremely reliable but this loom is vulnerable to age.  It’s another example of something that was designed for Japanese roads that doesn’t get redesigned for the UK/Europe.

The bad news is that Lexus dealers are extremely expensive.  If you have to then get them to diagnose the problem but don’t feel that you have to use them for the repairs.  Other garages or auto electricians can often do repairs for a fraction of the price to a good standard too.

Good luck 😀

[welland]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:05 PM, Lozsta said:

Private sale so no warranty. 

I had loaded the car up and was setting off for the in laws. The car suddenly pings with the amber warnings of the sliding car and an amber brake warning by the C of the temp gauge. The Middle dial display then says "Check Hybrid System" and "VSC something". There was also an "AFS(?)" warning light amber flashing on the right hand dial.

I limped to the lexus dealership but being it was Sunday the service department was not working. When I started the car again the warning triangle was red so I limped home as i was unable to get the dealer to check it per the manual.

I touched the brake disks and the fronts were very hot (could be touched but not for long) the backs were warm but not massively.

Anyone had any experience like this?

Any advice?

When you say that you limped, do you mean that the car was in limp mode and wouldn't go very fast?  Or do you  mean that you just drive cautiously; more slowly than usual?

Hot brakes is an indicator that could mean your brakes are binding. 

[Rutlandlex]

Any update on this?  It would be helpful to know what was wrong.

[Lozsta]

Thanks for the information @Rutlandlex.

Main update is that the aux Battery is the issue. Over time it does not seem to get charged by the engine/traction Battery so I am having to take the Battery out, charge it over night and then the car is magically fine in the morning.

Currently I am trying to find the right Battery to replace in the car. Lexus aren't particularly helpful they just gave me the information "B24" on the Battery and that is it. Someone pointed out something very interesting about why the aux Battery issue on the SE-L where the Battery is not up to the job, relating to the Japanese culture and having to accept that there is an issue.

[Rutlandlex]

Have you had the Battery tested by a garage to see whether the Battery is being drained or just losing the ability to hold a charge?  There's an outside chance that it could be an inverter issue.  I believe that there was a recall on the early 400h's which involved replacing the inverter and it only affected the 05-06 models.  You can go on the Lexus website and enter your reg. number and it will tell you if there are any outstanding recalls for your car.

I bought a new aux Battery around Black Friday from Euro Car Parts although I have yet to fit it because I thought that mine wouldn't last through the winter but so far it has.

[Lozsta]

I have not had the Battery tested, it just seems to lose enough charge and the "start in P" error comes up, I have checked the inverter recall for my reg/VIN and it comes up wih nothing needed but whether I believe it or not...  What Battery did you buy I am looking for the one gliderpilot recommended a Bosch S4 021 which looks right but the parts checker on amazon says it does not fit (not that reliable). I am having a right ball ache trying to find the right one...

[GSLV6]

5 hours ago, Lozsta said:

Thanks for the information @Rutlandlex.

Main update is that the aux battery is the issue. Over time it does not seem to get charged by the engine/traction battery so I am having to take the battery out, charge it over night and then the car is magically fine in the morning.

Currently I am trying to find the right battery to replace in the car. Lexus aren't particularly helpful they just gave me the information "B24" on the battery and that is it. Someone pointed out something very interesting about why the aux battery issue on the SE-L where the battery is not up to the job, relating to the Japanese culture and having to accept that there is an issue.

I think that you can replace this with any deep cycle Battery of a suitable duty.  Later models used a 12V 110AH deep cycle VGA type Battery located under the rear boot lining on the LHS.  Yours may be the same type.  They're not cheap but there are some sealed L/A equivalents for much less.  Don't use a high current short term discharge cranking Battery (ie normal car battery) as this won't be up to the job and isn't designed for repeated deep discharge.  Basically any deep cycle equivalent will do.  It doesn't have the be the Panasonic Battery that Lexus use.

[Lozsta]

@GSLV6 thanks, I have gone for the Bosch aux Battery that was recommended, I have looked at the deep cycle Battery but I am not sure I understand how it would charge back up as they are designed to discharge then charge back up. I got the right Battery from Costo for £50 and change so we will see how it gets on.

[Herbie]

55 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

they are designed to discharge then charge back up

It doesn't mean that they can only do that and nothing else, just that they can handle deep discharge whereas others can't, but you've got yourself sorted for a decent price anyway, so well done.

[Lozsta]

@Herbie I am no expert on car batteries or cars in general, computers/cloud computing/bioinformatics/clinical trials maybe but cars remain a mystery...

In that case if I were to buy one of the higher Ah batteries this would not cause complications?

[ColinBarber]

8 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

@Herbie I am no expert on car batteries or cars in general, computers/cloud computing/bioinformatics/clinical trials maybe but cars remain a mystery...

In that case if I were to buy one of the higher Ah batteries this would not cause complications?

No. In the same way that if a computer had a 500GB HDD and you fitted a 1TB one instead. You have extra capacity should you need it, otherwise it behaves the same, and if you use that extra capacity it takes longer to back it up (charge it up).

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Lozsta said:

In that case if I were to buy one of the higher Ah batteries this would not cause complications?

No, not at all, just as Colin said above.

[Lozsta]

Ok cool, thank you. Excellent analogy Colin, putting it that way makes me feel like an idiot because it is such a simple thing.