Why shouldn't I buy an Rx400h ?

[Lozsta]

On 1/2/2019 at 3:45 PM, Herbie said:

Any news about this yet?

Hey Herbie

I had meant to come back but I have been off work for a while. I spent half of one of my days off investigating the issue, and found some posts elsewhere that relate to exactly this issue.

There is a known issue with e RX400h of the age I have which is that when your starter Battery goes to a very low level the warnings kick in and eventually the Battery eventually fully ran out. The starter Battery is very small for the size of the car and has been changed for the 450h I believe (from what I have read). Number one cause of this issue I have found is loading the vehicle, there are other causes like people sitting in the car with the radio on and the engine off, when you load the vehicle even with the doors open (even if you shut them when heading back for more stuff) the Battery will drain very quickly. I had the boot and the side doors open a number of times (did not use the electric boot) and I believe this drained it to a very low level, did a short trip to the shop, turned the car off, then went to set off for the main journey with the Battery low and the bells and whistles all went off.

Spent the whole xmas period stressing over it. Came home, first day I got time to do it I whipped out the starter Battery and charged it (note to self smart chargers don't display the charge level but the power needed to charge the Battery, I thought when it dropped down from 5 to 3 the Battery was not holding charge). Popped it back in and every came back to life. Reset windows sorted radio presets.

Hoping that will be the end of it as I use it daily but will be getting receipt from the seller and getting warranty replacement on the Battery if needed.

[IanA2]

2 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

Hey Herbie

I had meant to come back but I have been off work for a while. I spent half of one of my days off investigating the issue, and found some posts elsewhere that relate to exactly this issue.

There is a known issue with e RX400h of the age I have which is that when your starter battery goes to a very low level the warnings kick in and eventually the battery eventually fully ran out. The starter battery is very small for the size of the car and has been changed for the 450h I believe (from what I have read). Number one cause of this issue I have found is loading the vehicle, there are other causes like people sitting in the car with the radio on and the engine off, when you load the vehicle even with the doors open (even if you shut them when heading back for more stuff) the battery will drain very quickly. I had the boot and the side doors open a number of times (did not use the electric boot) and I believe this drained it to a very low level, did a short trip to the shop, turned the car off, then went to set off for the main journey with the battery low and the bells and whistles all went off.

Spent the whole xmas period stressing over it. Came home, first day I got time to do it I whipped out the starter battery and charged it (note to self smart chargers don't display the charge level but the power needed to charge the battery, I thought when it dropped down from 5 to 3 the battery was not holding charge). Popped it back in and every came back to life. Reset windows sorted radio presets.

Hoping that will be the end of it as I use it daily but will be getting receipt from the seller and getting warranty replacement on the battery if needed.

Interesting. When you describe the Battery as "small", is that in physical or power terms? 

[Lozsta]

1 hour ago, IanA2 said:

Interesting. When you describe the battery as "small", is that in physical or power terms? 

It is physically small (like a large motorcycle battery) 230 mm H x 230 mm W x 120mm D.

In terms of power is it 45Ah, I am no expert on these things, but others suggested due to its nature a leisure Battery with a higher Ah could be used instead. But having looked into it, discussed with Battery suppliers and a guy I serendipitously ran into while walking my dog that day who maintains generators advised that due to leisure batteries being deep cycle they might not be suitable as they discharge then get charged back up.

The guy who I ran into mentioned speaking with a local supplier of batteries who he knows if it happens again.

 

@Herbie I have had a resolution.

[IanA2]

16 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

It is physically small (like a large motorcycle battery) 230 mm H x 230 mm W x 120mm D.

In terms of power is it 45Ah, I am no expert on these things, but others suggested due to its nature a leisure battery with a higher Ah could be used instead. But having looked into it, discussed with battery suppliers and a guy I serendipitously ran into while walking my dog that day who maintains generators advised that due to leisure batteries being deep cycle they might not be suitable as they discharge then get charged back up.

The guy who I ran into mentioned speaking with a local supplier of batteries who he knows if it happens again.

I wonder if Optima do a small Battery. I've looked at their Blue Tops but can't establish if they do a bike size.

 

ETA: Looks like they don't. Have you looked at Varta?

 

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/experience/2013/10/does-optima-make-motorcycle-battery

Edited January 10, 2019 by IanA2
Extra info...

[Lozsta]

Varta battery https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-blue-dynamic/545-155-033 that is the one that comes up

https://www.thebatteryshop.co.uk/545-155-033-varta-blue-dynamic-b31-156-2808-p.asp

https://www.hardwarexpress.co.uk/545-155-033-varta-blue-dynamic-b31-156-12v-45ah-car-battery-2527-p.asp

https://www.eurobatt.co.uk/b31-varta

Lexus quote £85 for a B24 45Ah (no other details but the B24 related to another Varta battery) which I think I have located.

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/varta-b24.html

So many options though after 4 hours research/phonecalls/banging head against the table I am pleased the recharge worked. The varta ones however don't seem much more esxpencive than the "cheap" yuasa one that the garage doing the MOT work put in for the vendor.

The Blue seems to be more for newer non start stop cars (the 400h uses the hybrid cell to start the car I believe) where as the black is a more "old school" pre 2000 Battery.

https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-blue-dynamic

[Lozsta]

Also anyone with a 400h have any idea on Tyres...? I was looking at these:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Hankook/Ventus-ST.htm

but cannot find a supplier for them for the 400h...

Second best option I have found ihttps://www.costco.co.uk/Tyres-Automotive/Tyres-Accessories/Tyres/Michelin-23555-R18-V-100-LATITUDE-TOUR-HP-SUV/tire/p/663342

But they are not reinforced, is that essential?

[IanA2]

10 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

Varta battery https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-blue-dynamic/545-155-033 that is the one that comes up

https://www.thebatteryshop.co.uk/545-155-033-varta-blue-dynamic-b31-156-2808-p.asp

https://www.hardwarexpress.co.uk/545-155-033-varta-blue-dynamic-b31-156-12v-45ah-car-battery-2527-p.asp

https://www.eurobatt.co.uk/b31-varta

Lexus quote £85 for a B24 45Ah (no other details but the B24 related to another Varta battery) which I think I have located.

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/varta-b24.html

So many options though after 4 hours research/phonecalls/banging head against the table I am pleased the recharge worked. The varta ones however don't seem much more esxpencive than the "cheap" yuasa one that the garage doing the MOT work put in for the vendor.

The Blue seems to be more for newer non start stop cars (the 400h uses the hybrid cell to start the car I believe) where as the black is a more "old school" pre 2000 battery.

https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-blue-dynamic

I've had both Varta (fitted by MB iirc) and Yuasa over the years, both very good,

[Lozsta]

Sorry for the wall of links, I did spend a long time running through the options.

My son is 2 and loves daddy's car (his words).

Couple of points I would say I wish I had known before. ICE, I have DVD player and screens in the seats (I will probably never use as the quality is gash it is of it's day) and I have the ML stereo but I don't think it supports MP3 on CD, so I am going to try and see if that is replaceable. The 2007 model has "MP3 AAC" on the radio panel so that should support it. I find it frustrating that in 2006 it didn't have it, I had an old banger with a kenwood head unit it 2004 that had MP3 support, the stereo was worth more than the car but it was useful. Finally the tape deck, is an amazing thing to have in a car but why it is there is beyond me. I can only think that the market for the Lexus SUV was 65+ male with a collection of Glenn Miller on cassette tape and they wanted to keep them happy. For me it really dates the car, I know it is an old car (limited finances since the little man arrived) but tape was long dead in 2006

[IanA2]

Regarding the tape player. I too have one and use a cassette adaptor & iPod. Works fine.

[Lozsta]

Previous owner put an ipod lead in, I borrowed ipad mini from work (I am firmly android) and that works fine too.

[IanA2]

Ok, I've spotted a 57 plate that interests me. If it was petrol I'd 95% certain I'd buy it, but these new fangled Battery things.....

Realistically, if the Battery is shot, what's level of pain likely to be. I know that's a sort of how long and string question, but a ball park idea might be comforting.

It's done a bit over100,000 and (allegedly) has a full Lexus History.

There isn't a Lexus dealer nearby, but there is a good Toyota, I was thinking of giving them a ring and asking if they'd check it over for me.

Any thoughts folks?

[Rutlandlex]

19 hours ago, IanA2 said:

"but these new fangled battery things....."

Not as "new fangled" as a DPF!  The first Prius went on sale in 1997 but DPF's in their current form weren't sold until 2004.  DPF's aren't considered to be new fangled so why should a Battery that's been around even longer?

 

On 1/10/2019 at 12:38 PM, Lozsta said:

It is physically small (like a large motorcycle battery) 230 mm H x 230 mm W x 120mm D.

My dad's just bought a Toyota Auris hybrid and you should see the size of the Battery on that.  It makes ours (400h) seem big!  It's tucked away behind some trim in the corner of the boot near the OSR light cluster so there is very little space in there.

[IanA2]

5 minutes ago, Rutlandlex said:

Not as "new fangled" as a DPF!  The first Prius went on sale in 1997 but DPF's in their current form weren't sold until 2004.  DPF's aren't considered to be new fangled so why should a battery that's been around even longer?

1. New to me. Never had any form of electric vehicle. So, yes, new fangled.

2. Diesel vehicles are imho, spawn of the devil. I have no interest in them and am only vaguely aware of what a DPF is, so not really a reference point for me.

3. I'm good on crystal sets.

[adebendanchris]

Hi Ian,

I'm not certain this will help but I thought I'd share my story with my RX400h. (After finding so much help when I was looking for a car)

October 2017 and my wife wants to replace her car. She uses it mainly around town and drives to work 3 times per week. We also do the occasional long trip to the continent. We wanted a spacious and comfortable car for the longer trips for 2 adults and two teenagers. It also needed to be slightly higher up than a normal car. We started looking at standard SUVs (Nissan Quasqhai etc) but weren't keen.We decided the best bet was to go upmarket, looking for something older to fit our budget but still reliable. After much research we narrowed it down to the Lexus RX400h or Volvo XC60 . Why not the Volvo? - well nearly all were diesels and after issues with DPF previously we wanted a petrol, so the Lexus it was. 

We knew we'd most likely be looking at a car with 100,000 miles plus and over 10 years old. To be honest there was a lot of dross out there. Many with the timing belts not being changed ("I'm certain it's been done but I've lost the paperwork..."), tatty interiors (torn seats) etc. After much searching we found a decent private sale with 131,000 miles, full service history but it needed a service. It had minor things needed doing (Roof bars needed powder coating, some interior trim replacing ) but really just needed a good clean. The main thing was the timing belt and water pump was done at 100k. 

I can appreciate the concern with the hybrid but I think the technology is pretty robust and talking to my indie (Toyoda Tech) you're more likely to have other issues than the hybrid Battery. If the hybrid does go (from my understanding) you can replace it but it's not cheap (used Battery on eBay £600). However,compared to the cost of replacing parts on Mercs (SBC brake unit in Mercs will fail at some point - £1,000 to replace)  or Range Rovers / Volvos, this is pretty reasonable.   

Either way just over 15 months later with 143,000 mile on the clock apart from the first main service the car has been perfect. It's ticked all the boxes being quiet comfortable and spacious. The only thing I've done is replace and upgrade the Battery (£54 Yuasa 48ah) due to some strange system warnings come up when it's cold. Once changed no more issues. 

I'm also a Merc fan and have a CLS500 but annoyingly the kids now always ask to go in their mum's car!  The only downside is it's not great on petrol but then again compared to the Merc it's positively economical.

My advice would be don't be rushed in to buying something, make sure it's got a good service history and find a good local indie (Toyoda Tech have been great ..)  Maybe we've been lucky but I'd not hesitate in getting another.  Your 100K car I'd look for a local Toyota/Lexus Indie to look it over. 

 

[IanA2]

10 hours ago, adebendanchris said:

Hi Ian,

I'm not certain this will help but I thought I'd share my story with my RX400h. (After finding so much help when I was looking for a car)

October 2017 and my wife wants to replace her car. She uses it mainly around town and drives to work 3 times per week. We also do the occasional long trip to the continent. We wanted a spacious and comfortable car for the longer trips for 2 adults and two teenagers. It also needed to be slightly higher up than a normal car. We started looking at standard SUVs (Nissan Quasqhai etc) but weren't keen.We decided the best bet was to go upmarket, looking for something older to fit our budget but still reliable. After much research we narrowed it down to the Lexus RX400h or Volvo XC60 . Why not the Volvo? - well nearly all were diesels and after issues with DPF previously we wanted a petrol, so the Lexus it was. 

We knew we'd most likely be looking at a car with 100,000 miles plus and over 10 years old. To be honest there was a lot of dross out there. Many with the timing belts not being changed ("I'm certain it's been done but I've lost the paperwork..."), tatty interiors (torn seats) etc. After much searching we found a decent private sale with 131,000 miles, full service history but it needed a service. It had minor things needed doing (Roof bars needed powder coating, some interior trim replacing ) but really just needed a good clean. The main thing was the timing belt and water pump was done at 100k. 

I can appreciate the concern with the hybrid but I think the technology is pretty robust and talking to my indie (Toyoda Tech) you're more likely to have other issues than the hybrid battery. If the hybrid does go (from my understanding) you can replace it but it's not cheap (used battery on ebay £600). However,compared to the cost of replacing parts on Mercs (SBC brake unit in Mercs will fail at some point - £1,000 to replace)  or Range Rovers / Volvos, this is pretty reasonable.   

Either way just over 15 months later with 143,000 mile on the clock apart from the first main service the car has been perfect. It's ticked all the boxes being quiet comfortable and spacious. The only thing I've done is replace and upgrade the battery (£54 Yuasa 48ah) due to some strange system warnings come up when it's cold. Once changed no more issues. 

I'm also a Merc fan and have a CLS500 but annoyingly the kids now always ask to go in their mum's car!  The only downside is it's not great on petrol but then again compared to the Merc it's positively economical.

My advice would be don't be rushed in to buying something, make sure it's got a good service history and find a good local indie (Toyoda Tech have been great ..)  Maybe we've been lucky but I'd not hesitate in getting another.  Your 100K car I'd look for a local Toyota/Lexus Indie to look it over. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to post your experience.

Since the decline of MB Lexus have been a revelation. On my third Lexus since my (partial) "divorce" from MB (still have a very elderly G), and I think you've pretty much covered my thoughts/feeling about the 400h, or indeed older L's in general.

That said, I'm in the Peterborough area and there's seem to be no Indies around. I'm wondering if the local Toyota main dealer would give it the once over. It's not something I've ever asked a main dealer to do but I suppose there's no harm asking.

[Nigel-Lexus Owner]

On 1/10/2019 at 6:11 PM, IanA2 said:

Ok, I've spotted a 57 plate that interests me. If it was petrol I'd 95% certain I'd buy it, but these new fangled battery things.....

Realistically, if the battery is shot, what's level of pain likely to be. I know that's a sort of how long and string question, but a ball park idea might be comforting.

It's done a bit over100,000 and (allegedly) has a full Lexus History.

There isn't a Lexus dealer nearby, but there is a good Toyota, I was thinking of giving them a ring and asking if they'd check it over for me.

Any thoughts folks?

Hi Ian,

I have purchased in May 2018 RX450h 2012 with 161,000 on the clock and runs without any problems. One company owner from new with all Lexus main dealer stamps. I just test drive the car and called Lexus from the number on the service book to confirm if they have serviced and carried out all the jobs on the car and they confirmed it. I am so happy with the car and hope to use it for a long term 4-5 more years for about 8,000 miles a year.

The high mileage specially on hybrids is not the same as with the combustion engines only. The combustion( petrol or diesel) engine is under the most stress when pulling off. The difference with hybrid system is you will have one or two electrical engines to get the car in motion and then the combustion engine will kick in to help if needed. This simple help from the electrical engine(s) is much appreciated by the combustion engine and that allows for high mileage without any major problems. You will be amazed of how well Lexus cars are put together. You will have a very good idea with comparing it to the SL 500.

All the best and keep us updated.

 

[IanA2]

Thanks that's good to know. I agree with the build quality MB comparison.