Regen braking with steering wheel paddles

[Pink]

Being only a couple of months into hybrid ownership, I’m still in playing and exploratory mode! 🙂

Does anyone regularly use the steering wheel shifters to enhance regen braking when slowing down ? Does it make any real difference or not? 

Tried it a few times tonight, but unless I came to a complete full stop I found myself stuck in a single “gear” when time came to pull away again, so had to shift the gear selector in & out to revert back to auto mode.  Seemed like too much faff, but just wondered if anyone uses it or if there’s any major benefits ? 

[200h]

using the paddles can help you to maintain your speed if your going down hills

and yes it does give you better regen ,try slowing down and watch the power

gauge then use the paddles you will see the blue line dip and stay in the regen area

[NemesisUK]

If you use the paddles you will use engine braking not regenerative braking. I've found it less effective in recharging the Battery. The engine will come on to provide the retardation. If you simply apply the brakes you can push the regen to max quite easily. 

Using the paddles whilst in D will limit the gear range, great if negotiating hills. 

[Hadrian]

I've only used the paddles a couple of time to see what effect they had.

Other than that, I forget they are there.

[olliesgrandad]

Haven't got them now but on my previous GS and before that my IS300h F sport I rarely used them. On the IS it also had the noise generator switch which was also something as useful as a chocolate teapot. 

[Thackeray]

12 hours ago, Pink said:

Does anyone regularly use the steering wheel shifters to enhance regen braking when slowing down ? Does it make any real difference or not?

As NemesisUK said, using the paddle shifters reduces regeneration rather than increases it.

As I understand it, you just use the brakes for regeneration. If you watch the Hybrid System dial, the one to the left of the speedometer, you can see the pointer go down to its maximum the harder you brake. While the pointer is still somewhere in the blue section all the braking is achieved by the motor-generators regenerating electricity. If you reach the maximum and then brake harder the brake pads will be brought into use. 

In gentle driving I try to keep the pointer just above the maximum point, for maximum regeneration and at the same time avoiding brake pad wear. 

But if you're coming down a mountain and the motor-generators aren't sufficient to keep the car's speed under control, you can use the paddles to add extra braking force from the engine. This is just the same as changing down in a manual to avoid brake fade/wear on a long downward stretch. 

Or you can just use the paddles for fun to get quick acceleration.

[Thackeray]

13 hours ago, Pink said:

I found myself stuck in a single “gear” when time came to pull away again, so had to shift the gear selector in & out to revert back to auto mode. 

You can get back to normal auto by pulling and holding the "+" paddle. No need to operate the gear selector.

[Pink]

Thanks all for the replies, great info. 

@Thackeray I’d hoped there was a smarter way than what I was doing ! Thanks 

[LordByronUK]

Here's a good blog from Lexus explaining how paddle shifters work on eCVT hybrids

https://blog.lexus.co.uk/what-do-lexus-paddle-shift-switches-do/

There is a lot of misinformation in general about manual shift mode in a Lexus hybrid. They are indeed intended to try and mimic a manual 6 speed auto trans, but work a little bit differently. Each shift range selects a range of gear ratios for the car to work in (an eCVT has infinite gear ratios), and each shift range (1-6) significantly changes the amount of accelerative and breaking force generated. Despite what a lot of people say, they do work, and you can have quite a bit of fun with them once you get used to how they operate.

For example, in my IS300h 2017 model, in sport and manual shift mode, one can get off the line much quicker when in S1, and when shifting with active sound control enabled, the sound even changes as you shift up and down shift, which is really nice. Also, in manual shift mode, you take a lot of the delay out of the transmission as the computer doesn't have to spend as much time figuring out the best gear ratio range to be in, which is also nice, just put your foot down and you will see the delay has mostly gone. And lastly, when going down long hills, the engine breaking really helps take wear and tear off the break pads. Note however once again, manual shift mode DOES NOT INCREASE REGEN, in that people are correct. If you are however quick enough to put the car in S6 when slowing down, that will be comparable as it's the shift mode with least amount of engine breaking force. One good tip is that by holding down the '+' paddle, you can jump all the way up to S6 from any gear, and that feature is exactly intended to help get the best regen in manual mode, so they thought of that too, just a shame some of this isn't mentioned in the manual.

For the doubters, who are still not convinced, just try putting the car into S6 on the motorway, and see how much accelerative force you have at high speeds, not much I can guarantee you, similar to a real 6 speed auto trans. Also, while travelling at a fairly high speed, try shifting down the range from S6, and you will be really surprised at how much engine breaking kicks in.

I know this is a lengthy reply, but I keep seeing many posts with people talking utter bollocks about this, saying how they don't work, or do very little and clearly they don't understand what's going on or how to use and get the best from them.

Hope that clears up some confusion and doubts 🙂

[wharfhouse]

10 minutes ago, LordByronUK said:

Here's a good blog from Lexus explaining how paddle shifters work on eCVT hybrids

https://blog.lexus.co.uk/what-do-lexus-paddle-shift-switches-do/

There is a lot of misinformation in general about manual shift mode in a Lexus hybrid. They are indeed intended to try and mimic a manual 6 speed auto trans, but work a little bit differently. Each shift range selects a range of gear ratios for the car to work in (an eCVT has infinite gear ratios), and each shift range (1-6) significantly changes the amount of accelerative and breaking force generated. Despite what a lot of people say, they do work, and you can have quite a bit of fun with them once you get used to how they operate.

For example, in my IS300h 2017 model, in sport and manual shift mode, one can get off the line much quicker when in S1, and when shifting with active sound control enabled, the sound even changes as you shift up and down shift, which is really nice. Also, in manual shift mode, you take a lot of the delay out of the transmission as the computer doesn't have to spend as much time figuring out the best gear ratio range to be in, which is also nice, just put your foot down and you will see the delay has mostly gone. And lastly, when going down long hills, the engine breaking really helps take wear and tear off the break pads. Note however once again, manual shift mode DOES NOT INCREASE REGEN, in that people are correct. If you are however quick enough to put the car in S6 when slowing down, that will be comparable as it's the shift mode with least amount of engine breaking force. One good tip is that by holding down the '+' paddle, you can jump all the way up to S6 from any gear, and that feature is exactly intended to help get the best regen in manual mode, so they thought of that too, just a shame some of this isn't mentioned in the manual.

For the doubters, who are still not convinced, just try putting the car into S6 on the motorway, and see how much accelerative force you have at high speeds, not much I can guarantee you, similar to a real 6 speed auto trans. Also, while travelling at a fairly high speed, try shifting down the range from S6, and you will be really surprised at how much engine breaking kicks in.

I know this is a lengthy reply, but I keep seeing many posts with people talking utter bollocks about this, saying how they don't work, or do very little and clearly they don't understand what's going on or how to use and get the best from them.

Hope that clears up some confusion and doubts 🙂

And if you want to get the best out of the "manual" put the gear lever in S and the dial in Sport. It's not clear in the user manual but from what I gathered when in D the "gears" are for controlling speed (engine braking - not to behave like a manual box all the way up and down the "gears") and when in S they then mimic manual 6 speed. I've tried all the combinations and found same as above - they do work in S and it's very noticable how the revs are controlled - the car will overide in the end but it does in any modern traditional auto with manual paddles. The journos that say they are useless I don't think read the manual or understand the different combinations. That said after having a play to see what they did I don't really use them myself other than for engine braking on long descents. 

[LordByronUK]

Absolutely, I forgot to mention that too. For some reason, using the shifters works much better when combining sport and shift mode together. When in normal mode and just pulling down on '-' paddle, I found it behaved differently with regards to accelerative force and mostly just served to engine brake. 

As you rightly say, it's a shame this topic isn't discussed more in the manual, and that is a reason people probably don't try them out enough in the different modes. I would definitely miss this feature if it wasn't there now having used it a lot with great results, which says a lot! I think the shifters do get a lot of flack from people who have only tried using them in normal auto mode, instead of sport and shift mode together, which is a real shame. Most of the positive comments come from those that used them properly in sport and shift mode together, along with the active sound control.

And yes, car reviewers also too often make this mistake, and only try and in normal mode, and say they don't do much. Even the dealership I found wasn't too knowledgeable about how they worked and didn't even realise that the ASC change up and down with the shifts until I showed them, plonkers! Lexus just needs to raise more awareness about how to use them, and educate the dealerships more about them.

[route66]

Mounting the paddles in such a way that they move with the steering wheel renders them useless in lots of situations. Much better to adopt the "Italian*" method of fixing them in position - at least then you will always know where they are. The current setup means they are really just toys / box ticking feature rather than something you can rely on to use when you need them.

 

I.E. Ferrari, Alfa Romeo.

[NemesisUK]

6 minutes ago, route66 said:

Mounting the paddles in such a way that they move with the steering wheel renders them useless in lots of situations. Much better to adopt the "Italian*" method of fixing them in position - at least then you will always know where they are. The current setup means they are really just toys / box ticking feature rather than something you can rely on to use when you need them.

 

I.E. Ferrari, Alfa Romeo.

Can't say I've found it an issue. When driving 'enthusiastically' (the only time I really use the paddles) I rarely remove my hands from the wheel, the positioning at 9/3 o'clock is just perfect IMHO. Any 'gear' changes would be done well before negotiating any corners requiring more steering lock.

[route66]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

Can't say I've found it an issue. When driving 'enthusiastically' (the only time I really use the paddles) I rarely remove my hands from the wheel, the positioning at 9/3 o'clock is just perfect IMHO. Any 'gear' changes would be done well before negotiating any corners requiring more steering lock.

Then you're not trying hard enough 😉 If it's good enough for Ferrari ...

[NemesisUK]

Whereas Maclaren, Porsche ...?

 

 

[route66]

... are not Italian.

[NemesisUK]

Just examples of how others do it 😎

Personally I think the column mounted paddles look too big. Is it easy to accidentally catch on them? That said the buttons on the back of my AMG caught me out a couple of times! Unintentional down shift while negotiating a roundabout, leading to lots of sideways action 😁