GS450H rear tyre wear - inside edge

[Farqui]

@Chris111 do you know what alignment settings your car was set to?

[Chris111]

2 minutes ago, Farqui said:

@Chris111 do you know what alignment settings your car was set to?

Sorry Lee, not technically minded so I don't know what your asking.

[Chris111]

These are my results. I hope you can zoom in on this.

[Britprius]

16 hours ago, Farqui said:

Nope, I wasn't aware of such a thing and it's sounds like another tech-gone-too-far 'feature'!

When ever the tracking is altered there is a re calibration process in Techstream to reset the steering wheel centre position, and for the electric power steering, and yaw rate sensors. This possibly could be the reason for your occasional pull under braking. If you have Techstream it is easy to do as the instructions for the procedure appear on screen.

John.

https://workshop-manuals.com/lexus/gs_450h/v6-3.5l_(2gr-fse)_hybrid/steering_and_suspension/sensors_and_switches_steering_and_suspension/sensors_and_switches_steering/steering_angle_sensor/component_information/technical_service_bulletins/abs/tcs_zero_point_calibration_information/page_8393/

[Farqui]

Crumbs, why are apparently simple jobs so bloomin' technical these daysl?!

Thanks for the heads up John, will see what I can do.

[Farqui]

Update: I managed a good run at the weekend and the mpg's sneaked up very close to 40mpg  

I've not seen it that high for a long time and I wasn't 'milking' it either.

Looking back over my fuel consumption, the mpg's have been pretty low over the year  which I partly contributed to having fewer long journey's,.

But it now seems that the poor tracking was perhaps the biggest factor.

Will keep an eye on it.

John @Britprius, if your tyre wear is okay then I can understand why you're reluctant to get the tracking checked.  I'd still consider it as a preventative task and should have done mine earlier.  To prevent the front wandering you'd be able to dial in a little more front toe, if needed.

[Farqui]

Update: over the past several thousand miles we've noticed an increasing wheel bearing type of noise that seems to come from the OSF.  None of the wheels showed any signs of movement and I've also tried to feel/listen at the hubs for any signs of wheel bearing failure but didn't find anything conclusive.

Checking replacement wheel bearings and the prices motivated me to take another look!

So yesterday I popped the front wheels off and closely inspected the tyres, rims, etc. 

I didn't see any bulges, wobbles or out of roundness but running my hand back'n'forth along the rotation of the tyre...the outer 1/4 had quite severe feathering/cupping  

These were the original tyres the vehicle came with (2.5 years+) and further up this thread you'll see that we corrected severe alignment issues approximately 10 months ago.  So I'm hoping this odd wear was due to that bad tracking issue (toe) that's been resolved and not tired bushes, dampers, etc. 

'Googling' for feathering/cupping it seems that cheap tyres often suffer issue this more, so that's another possibility as I'd never heard of the brand.  I think Camber can be ruled out as the issue was on the outside of the tyre, altho this may point to a caster problem.

Anyhoo, I swapped the front wheels left/right and took a good drive to a tyre shop but didn't notice any difference in the noise  which was now bloomin' annoying 

The tyre guy reckon the feathering was really bad and he wasn't at all surprised the noise sounded like a bad wheel bearing.

After fitting two new front tyres and the drive home was transformed, being soooo much quieter and the ride felt softer too 

Unfortunately I reckon the rears are also showing sighs of feathering/cupping  or I'm now being overly cautious!  Thinking back to last years geometry woes...I had new tyres fitted a few weeks earlier so they may have suffered a bit of scrub before realignment.  I do hope it's not another issue with the set-up/etc. 

I've never had this on any other vehicle, so are GS's prone to feathering tyres? - discuss please...

[Britprius]

I should have posted this 6 months ago, but I dialed in one full turn of each front track rod to give more toe in to see if it cured the loose centre feeling with the steering. I did this knowing I could return to the original settings if anything untoward reared it's head, but the difference was amazing. The car now feels planted at speed with a definite heavier feel to the steering. I have kept a close eye on front tyre ware but this is still very even and square across the tyres with no sign of feathering after 6000 miles.
I have checked the camber on both front and rear wheels with an Aldi digital angle level, and all are within specification.

The only time I have encountered inner rear tyre shoulder ware on my car was when I had a slow puncture, and was to lazy to get round to fixing it just pumping it back up so the car was used for a number of weeks with a soft rear tyre. The edge of the tread was all but on the cords in a very short space of time, and distance. 

John

[Farqui]

Good news John, well done.  A relatively easy change with positive results, nice.  Would be interesting to see the results of a 4 wheel alignment on your car.

That reminds me, these old front tyres have been steadily loosing pressure since day#1 so I've been pretty much checking/adding air every couple of weeks.

Low psi is another possible contributor to feathering.

The lads seated these new tyres really well so I hope I don't have to continue with that 'ritual'.

[Britprius]

4 hours ago, Farqui said:

Good news John, well done.  A relatively easy change with positive results, nice.  Would be interesting to see the results of a 4 wheel alignment on your car.

That reminds me, these old front tyres have been steadily loosing pressure since day#1 so I've been pretty much checking/adding air every couple of weeks.

Low psi is another possible contributor to feathering.

The lads seated these new tyres really well so I hope I don't have to continue with that 'ritual'.

Since having my wheels refurbished I have noted that my tyres hold pressure much better than previously.
When the tyres were removed the tyre seating area was noticeably corroded where tyre fitters had "cleaned" the rims with wire brushes before fitting new tyres. This scratches or remove the powder coating, and when they apply the water based sealant corrosion follows.

I will make sure in future that the rims are cleaned only with a wet cloth or soft brush when tyres are removed, and re fitted. The amount of damage some tyre fitters do to alloy wheels is beyond my. On a number of occasions "once at Chemix" I've had fitters about to try fitting steel wheel balance weights.

John.

[Farqui]

FYI: as it turns out my wheel bearings were okay but LexusPartsDirect have kindly added mk3 GS450h front bearing prices to their website (thanks Daniel). 

They may help a fellow owner out...

https://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/parts/lexus-gs/lexus-gs-phase-iii-2005-2012/lexus-gs-2005-2012-brakes-transmission/lexus-gs-phase-3-o-s-front-wheel-bearing/

https://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/parts/lexus-gs/lexus-gs-phase-iii-2005-2012/lexus-gs-2005-2012-brakes-transmission/lexus-gs-phase-3-n-s-front-wheel-bearing/

[Britprius]

Along with many other parts wheel bearings are where car manufactures replacement parts have a huge mark up.

I needed to replace a rear wheel bearing on a Mazda 626 seven seat estate. I went to the dealers where I was quoted £268 to which I replied I only wan't it supplied not fitted. I was then told this was the supply price less 10% trade discount. I declined the offer.

I went to an industrial bearing supplier "Bearing Services" and they looked up the bearing from the numbers, and manufacturers name stamped on it, and quoted a price of £28, but as this was on a Friday, and Monday was the earliest they could supply it as it was not a stock item being an automotive part and would be courier delivered to them.
On asking where the bearing was coming from I was told Fafnir bearings Lichfield. This was only 10 miles away so I asked if I could go, and pick it up. No problem was the reply.

On arriving at Fafnir sales counter a very helpful guy behind the counter said "next time you wan't a bearing come direct we could have saved you £10 on the price you paid".

This would be a saving of £250 for an identical bearing by the same manufacturer.

John.

[Farqui]

John, fair point for a sold hub where the bearing is pressed out/in but the GS comes as a sub assembly with ABS sensor/etc that's then mounted to the upright.

Although these sub assemblies are meant to be replaced as a whole, I can image that it could well be dissembled and just the bearing replaced.

[Britprius]

3 hours ago, Farqui said:

John, fair point for a sold hub where the bearing is pressed out/in but the GS comes as a sub assembly with ABS sensor/etc that's then mounted to the upright.

Although these sub assemblies are meant to be replaced as a whole, I can image that it could well be dissembled and just the bearing replaced.

Yes Lee I do know that the wheel bearings are now an integral part of the hub, and dependent on if the car is front or rear wheel drive has the ABS ring built in. On our GS rear wheel drive cars the ring is on the drive shaft with a separate sensor in the side of the rear hub. On the fronts it is all one unit.
On the CT the reverse is the case with the drive shafts going to the front wheels.

It is still a fact that according to your link the RRP price of a bearing is close to £290 when they can be bought at less than 1/5 of that price, and I guarantee that at the lower price there is still a big markup. We tend to believe that because something is made in China the quality must be poor even though we have no idea where the OEM components are made. In my working life I traveled the world to all sorts of production plants including China, and many facilities there are ahead of what is available in the west.

Manufacturers fit these parts to cars because they are cheaper for them than the old setup, and not because they are more reliable or better in some way.

John. 

[Farqui]

For reference Rockauto, Autodoc, etc have the GS hub assemblies listed cheaper than OEM.

[Chris JJ]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:11 PM, Britprius said:

Yes Lee I do know that the wheel bearings are now an integral part of the hub, and dependent on if the car is front or rear wheel drive has the ABS ring built in. On our GS rear wheel drive cars the ring is on the drive shaft with a separate sensor in the side of the rear hub. On the fronts it is all one unit.
On the CT the reverse is the case with the drive shafts going to the front wheels.

It is still a fact that according to your link the RRP price of a bearing is close to £290 when they can be bought at less than 1/5 of that price, and I guarantee that at the lower price there is still a big markup. We tend to believe that because something is made in China the quality must be poor even though we have no idea where the OEM components are made. In my working life I traveled the world to all sorts of production plants including China, and many facilities there are ahead of what is available in the west.

Manufacturers fit these parts to cars because they are cheaper for them than the old setup, and not because they are more reliable or better in some way.

John. 

Everything mechanical we have ever bought made in china appeared to be made of low grade plasticine. I have a friend that repairs scooters and he won't buy Chinese parts but likes those made in Thailand as says they are very good.