GS450H rear tyre wear - inside edge

[Farqui]

Has anyone experienced several inside edge tyre wear on their GS450H ?

If so, then did you resolve it ?

Might it simply need the rear track re-aligning ?

Or does the high rearward Hybrid braking cause some of the multi-link rear bushes to wear more ?  

 

I recently had a rear tyre suddenly deflate and found the inner most edge was badly worn. It was down to the canvas in one section but overall the tyre had plenty of tread left.  The NSR was the worst and the OSR still had a definite taper on the inner edge.  The tyres were less than 2 years old and had covered roughly 18k miles.  The vehicle is not lowered and tyre pressures have been roughly 30-35psi.

[Sherra]

Lee that looks more like damage than wear.

[Britprius]

Lee that does look like the tyre has been rubbing against something on the suspension or bodywork rather than ware from the road surface. If you have not already done so I would check there is nothing in close proximity to the tyre particularly when the suspension is loaded. I know you have raised the car slightly, but cannot see in any way that being a problem.
If clearances are good the next step would be having the rear geometry checked. My car for what it's worth wares tyres out very evenly front and rear. So evenly that the wheels will easily stand upright on tyres when removed from the car.

John.

[Mihanicos]

Make sure that the tyres are inflated to the correct pressure.

I inflate my tyres to 2.8 bar, ( about 41 psi ) according to the owner's manual.

If your tyres were under inflated, In my opinion, the damage would have been caused by full power acceleration or when getting up on a curb. This can also be caused when getting back on the road from a lower than the road curb. Sometimes it could be a bad quality tyre.

 

[Britprius]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:54 AM, Mihanicos said:

Make sure that the tyres are inflated to the correct pressure.

I inflate my tyres to 2.8 bar, ( about 41 psi ) according to the owner's manual.

If your tyres were under inflated, In my opinion, the damage would have been caused by full power acceleration or when getting up on a curb. This can also be caused when getting back on the road from a lower than the road curb. Sometimes it could be a bad quality tyre.

 

The pressure you give is for driving above 132 mph, and I find gives a very harsh ride. For speeds up to 100 mph the recommended pressures are 35 psi front and rear for a 2007 GS450H.
I tend to run the rears at 32 psi to give a better ride unless I know I am going to be carrying rear passengers for some distance "very rare I have rear seat passengers".
My tyres ware very evenly without showing any excess shoulder ware.

When I am towing my caravan I run the rears at 37 psi.

John.

[Farqui]

Thanks for the replies chaps, the car hasn't been used much since but I have found that the ride has improved on the new tyres.  Hardly surprising really as it was riding on the carcass with little/no tread.

I am now running my tyres at 35psi all round, as per the B pillar guide.  I was running less that this as the ride was firming up, which I can now attribute to less rubber/thread on the tyre.

Nothing is rubbing and the rear suspension is all tight, it's just passed it's MOT too.

I wouldn't read too much into the inside ridge as I suspect that was due to driving to the hard shoulder on the deflated tyre.

I took it to a reputable tyre shop yesterday and they confirmed the rear geometry was..."way out".  Unfortunately they couldn't free up the rear toe adjusters and didn't want to risk using the big breaker bar and having a broken car in the workshop  

They didn't charge me (phew) and said that the camber was okay, just that the rear toe was sketchy.  Once I've freed up/replaced the adjusters then I'll be back to the tyre shop for a full set-up.

So it looks like I'll get the car up in the air again tomorrow (weather permitting) and give them some 'welly' or heat.

I've called around for replacement 'cam' bolts and as usual, they aren't readily available.  Oddly Toyota prices were higher than Lexus and although Lexus said the parts would be in on Tuesday but they haven't called me back to finalise the order   I really do despair with Lexus dealers, I even tried a different one this time!

[Farqui]

The US forum make frequent mention of inner tyre wear but only if the car has been lowered, you can source aftermarket/adjustable camber arms to prevent the issue.

I see adjustable rear toe arms are available but they around £200 a pair + shipping. Even Rockauto lists an adjustable option, at £78 each.

[Britprius]

Lee it is amazing how tight some of the suspension bolts can be as you no doubt found when undoing the lower shock mounts, and hub bolts. I guarantee once you have purchased the new cam bolts you will not need them. Although if you did not buy them the old ones would have certainly broke off leaving you stranded.

John.

[Farqui]

Exactly that John, I just want it sorted and to cover the bases.  

The bolts aren't cheap but they're cheaper than a pair of tyres that are killed, even though they're oodles of tread left across the rest of the tyre.

I recall that one lower shock bolt was a royal pain to get out and would surely would have been locked solid if it had been left for much longer.

[Farqui]

Lexus Sheffield have kinda redeemed themselves, apparently they've already placed the order and will call me when they're ready next week.

Not sure why they said they'd call me back later today, I was expecting to hand over a kidney and pay before they'd order anything!

[Farqui]

Yesterday evening I collected the rear track bolts/etc from Lexus Sheffield, ordered last Friday morning. 

The parts dept did say that bad rear alignment on the GS is known to chew through rear tyres, so pay attention to yours folks.

At lunchtime today the new rear control arms arrived, ordered from RockAuto on Monday morning.  Priority shipping was really fast and only around £10 more than a regular parcel I recently received (roughly £10 shipped).  I wasn't hit for any import duty or UK postal charges either 

The forecast looks drier tomorrow, so I hope to get another crack at removing the OSR inner pivot bolt, wish me luck...

[Britprius]

Nice to see a grease point on the ball joint. I know these were got rid of many years ago, but I still prefer the ability to add grease when I wish. All the ball joints on my car were treated to fresh grease via a hypodermic needle through the rubber boots shortly after acquiring the car. The tiny holes in the boot were then sealed with a dab of supper glue.

John.  

[Farqui]

Yes, I was susprised to see grease ports but think it's a great idea and will lube 'em annually alongside caliper sliders during my service. 

It's a shame there aren't grease ports at the other end 'cos that's where mines locked itself to the bolt 

You can't have everything tho as they didn't come with rubber caps  so I need to get some ordered.

[Farqui]

The OSR toe bolt/arm put up quite a fight but that side has now been renewed 

I had to resort to the angle grinder in the end, it's really right and awkward too.

Just the other side to renew now but that was loose so 'should' be much easier, famous last words!

[Farqui]

I swapped out the easier NSR today during lunch, the bolt hadn't seized up so it popped right out 

A dose of hail wasn't on the forecast tho 

Nipping up all the bolts and now the adjusters work a treat 

I'm booked in for a 4 wheel alignment tomorrow afternoon.

[Britprius]

That OS looks rely rusty. To your knowledge has the car spent much time near the coast in salty air? or is it just the salt used in the winter that perhaps has caused this?

Please let us know if the car feels any different after the tracking has been corrected.

John.

[Farqui]

I don't recall seeing any stamps/etc that were near the coast. I'm in the midlands so it's only road use that can have contributed.

I've been under many cars of various marques/models that have been UK daily drivers and all have shown plenty of rust. Even newer cars, say 3-4 years old. The plastic under covers/trays can hide alot.

The rear subframe, front covers came off for this job and they are hiding lots of corrosion. So i definitely need to get the underside property treated in the New Year.

Tracking has been sorted and the car seems to coast longer on Battery [emoji106]

All 4 corners were toeing out quite badly, even the fronts which is annoying. As the shop claimed they adjusted them when we recently fitted new rear tyres. Grrr.

I set the new rear bolts in the middle of their adjustment and that gave a whopping 15mm+ toe out [emoji44]

[Farqui]

Before and after alignment, on a Hunter Hawkeye

[Britprius]

Lee. How does the car feel on the road now? Have you noticed much difference?
I ask because my car feels a little loose around the centre steering position at speed It is difficult to give a better description. There is no play in any ball joints, or worn bushings, and no play in the steering rack. Shocks are as new, and the tyres ware very evenly across the treads. The ride is good with no knocks or rattles. The car tracks strait on the road with no hands.
I am considering a four wheel alignment, but am reluctant to go ahead, and upset the even tyre ware for perhaps no improvement.

John.

[Farqui]

John @Britprius, the handling is much the same, it maybe feels a bit more planted and predictable. Bizarrely it wasn't a handful before!

Before...(with so much toe-out) changes of direction weren't a problem   It did used to take quite a bit of concentration and input to hold a straight line.

Now...I'm noticing the steering is ever so slightly heavier and now centres a lickle bit. My front toe-in is now just off straight so this makes sense. Front toe-in of 5mm overall could be increased according to the manual (1 +- 2mm) but is within spec and now I have a decent baseline to work from. Rear is now 2.6mm vs book 3 +- 2mm.

Alignment ref; https://workshop-manuals.com/lexus/gs_450h/v6-3.5l_(2gr-fse)_hybrid/steering_and_suspension/alignment/system_information/technical_service_bulletins/page_8283/

The car does seem to follow the camber of the road more now and I got a pull under braking the other day.  I reckon I had a low front tyre (TPMS on but tyre was okay) and the power steering occasionally seems to do this anyway.  So it still needs concentration 

The biggest change is the comfort, riding with a full tread that isn't down the carcass...the ride is soooo much better and less crashy.  I'm also back up to 35psi and it's more comfortable than previous lower pressures on the rear to try and restore some 'waft'.

Fingers crossed now that my tyres won't wear so badly and will last more than 2yrs/18k miles. Heck my mpg may even go up (a bit).

If you know a good garage that can do proper 4 wheel tracking then I'd recommend it, as tyres and low mpg is much more expensive than the cost of tracking.  It cost my £60 incl'g the dreaded VAT AND they didn't charge me for the initial set-up when the found my OSR adjuster was locked solid.  I used a specific outlet of Eden Tyre Sales (not my local) but your mileage may vary with local wrenches.

[Farqui]

How does my tracking compare with other mk3 GS450H's ?

[Britprius]

Lee. Do you know if the did a steering re calibration as part of the tracking? with Techstream or other.

John.

[Chris111]

2 hours ago, Britprius said:

Lee. How does the car feel on the road now? Have you noticed much difference?
I ask because my car feels a little loose around the centre steering position at speed It is difficult to give a better description. There is no play in any ball joints, or worn bushings, and no play in the steering rack. Shocks are as new, and the tyres ware very evenly across the treads. The ride is good with no knocks or rattles. The car tracks strait on the road with no hands.
I am considering a four wheel alignment, but am reluctant to go ahead, and upset the even tyre ware for perhaps no improvement.

John.

John if you've read my recent thread about the vibration at speed you will see that I also had a problem with the steering feeling light and also experienced, like Lee says above, having to concentrate at keeping the car in a straight line. This was traced to it toeing out and a 4 wheel alignment has sorted this and as a result the steering now feels much more weightier. 

[Farqui]

6 minutes ago, Britprius said:

Lee. Do you know if the did a steering re calibration as part of the tracking? with Techstream or other.

John.

Nope, I wasn't aware of such a thing and it's sounds like another tech-gone-too-far 'feature'!

[Chris111]

1 hour ago, Farqui said:

How does my tracking compare with other mk3 GS450H's ?

Having just had mine done, if I can work out how to get a photo of the results sheet on here I'll let you know.