HID headlamp conversion - bad news!

[johnatg]

Well, not news, really - just confirmation.

For those of you (like me) with HID conversion kits fitted because we have models (SE in my case) which didn't have oem HID dip headlamps.

You may well have been aware that the MoT Testers' manual was revised in May this year to contain the following (amongst many other revisions):

'Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn’t be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.

blah, blah - then

     Defect                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Category
a. Headlamp emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements.                                                                                 Major
b. Product on the lens or light source which obviously reduces light intensity or changes emitted colour to other than white or yellow.      Major
c.  Light source and lamp not compatible.                                                                                                                                                                        Major  '

Well, I did mull over whether I should refit the halogen bulbs before the test, but decided to see if I would get away with it. I didn't - failed on category c. above.

I asked the tester how he knew (as the projector beam light units on HID and non-HID cars look identical, and the headlamp washers etc are not mandatory - the wording of that is elsewehre in the manual). He said it was due to the presence of the headlamp height adjuster on the dashboard - oem HID cars have self levelling headlamps so that control is not fitted. No disguising that, I guess!

He did agree that the headlamp aim and beam pattern was perfectly acceptable. (The same tester has passed it several times each year since I fitted the HIDs)

Damn - an extra task each year now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaunomercy]

So what failure category did it come under out of interest ?
As I understand the new test regime, some fails mean the car cannot be driven after said failure !!!

Any truth in that ?

Cheers

Paul

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[johnatg]

Major.

It's true that the car shouldn't be driven after that, but I have a good relationship with the garage and they know I live just half a mile down the road, so we agreed I'd fix it and call them for a retest. Didn't charge me for now!

(There are a few other issues I need to attend to)

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[madasahatter]

3 minutes ago, johnatg said:

Major.

It's true that the car shouldn't be driven after that, but I have a good relationship with the garage and they know I live just half a mile down the road, so we agreed I'd fix it and call them for a retest. Didn't charge me for now!

(There are a few other issues I need to attend to)

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Strange my friends Mazda 6 non hid fitted with hid kit has passed test within last 2 weeks.

[johnatg]

I guess it comes down to the tester's interpretation of the identification of compatibility of the light source and housing. You can't tell by looking at it - the levelling control is a bit derivative. Some testers might give benefit of the doubt - others are too scared of DVLA!

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[Vintagesixtysix]

Will this apply to side lights also?

Ive replaced these with LED......nothing coloured or crazy bright......just brighter than oem.

[madasahatter]

10 minutes ago, Vintagesixtysix said:

Will this apply to side lights also?

Ive replaced these with LED......nothing coloured or crazy bright......just brighter than oem.

I have both in my lights Hid kit and leds look better.  Can not see them failing side light bulbs myself. No light pattern of sorts really.

[normski2]

33 minutes ago, Vintagesixtysix said:

Will this apply to side lights also?

Ive replaced these with LED......nothing coloured or crazy bright......just brighter than oem.

I doubt that will get noticed

[leelacey17]

Will this apply to side lights also?
Ive replaced these with LED......nothing coloured or crazy bright......just brighter than oem.

The wife's car passed recently with LED bulbs in the side lights.

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[Pink]

50 minutes ago, Vintagesixtysix said:

Will this apply to side lights also?

Ive replaced these with LED......nothing coloured or crazy bright......just brighter than oem.

I think you’ll be ok with any LEDs, both side and main. The law is specific for HID/Xenon because unlike LED, Xenon light is not tightly directional, and can spray out and glare very easily if not properly fitted. Hence the use of projectors and the requirements for both self-levelling and lens washers, as even dirty lens can redirect the light beams and cause glare. LEDs are a much more controllable light, hence the fancy & intricate headlight designs with modern LEDs, which could never be achieved with the wild Xenon light patterns. 

[normski2]

I have LED sidelights

Headlights are HID

Just passed MOT not 10 mins ago.

Sailed through ...  no advisories ... happy days 🙂

[Shaunomercy]

On about these intricate LED headlights that are coming out....

In the future when I change cars again, I won't be buying a top spec car with LED headlights fitted...

Sealed units, cannot change the LED bulb..

This come up in my Google news feed.

And no I'm not a daily mail reader but it was in my motoring feed..

I know the Lexus is250 headlamps are not a cheap item to replace, but you can change the hid bulb should it fail...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-6354331/Replacing-headlight-bulb-small-car-cost-846.html

£827 quid for a seat Ibiza !!! I suspect that's without labour... Bumper removal etc...
A seat.......

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[james250]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:40 PM, johnatg said:

He said it was due to the presence of the headlamp height adjuster on the dashboard - oem HID cars have self levelling headlamps so that control is not fitted. No disguising that, I guess!

So technically you could just pop the levelling rocker switch out, hide it behind the panel and put a blank rocker switch cover? and then they wouldn't know it's not factory fitted 🙂 Out of curiosity, the rule is that existing halogen headlamp units cannot be converted to be used with HID bulbs right? From what I have read and I spoke to few MOT testers who said you can replace the entire headlamp units with OEM HID units and that's fine. But when you do that, you will still have the rocker adjustment switch like you do, so I don't think an MOT tester can go based on that adjustment switch like your tester has done. 

[Shaunomercy]

When you switch the headlights on with hid the lights come on and then the headlight moves up and down automatically to set ride height. It's very noticeable.

My pug 407 did same so I assume it's not just a Lexus Peugeot thing.

Plus it should have headlamp washers

 

You are correct in that a halogen reflector is not suitable for hid bulbs. They do not focus the beam

 

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 you cannot achieve this cut off line that a hid / projector achieves with a halogen assembly so the headlight alignment test on mot shows this and is a failure

 

https://goo.gl/images/cHgqEH

 

 

 

 

 

[johnatg]

2 hours ago, james250 said:

So technically you could just pop the levelling rocker switch out, hide it behind the panel and put a blank rocker switch cover? and then they wouldn't know it's not factory fitted 🙂 Out of curiosity, the rule is that existing halogen headlamp units cannot be converted to be used with HID bulbs right? From what I have read and I spoke to few MOT testers who said you can replace the entire headlamp units with OEM HID units and that's fine. But when you do that, you will still have the rocker adjustment switch like you do, so I don't think an MOT tester can go based on that adjustment switch like your tester has done. 

That's all rather what I thought. And I guess some testers will let it pass on that basis - my tester apologised and said how well the HID conversion works in the light units and that the beam pattern was better and more controlled than with the halogen bulbs. But he said that he knew it was a conversion kit and they are not legal for the MoT test. He acknowledged that it was going to be an annual job for me......

But any tester not going by the book risks the wrath of DVSA (as it is now called) and I can tell you - if you are a tester you don't want to risk that!

And what a right pain it is getting the bulb (halogen or HID) into the nearside light - my hands are not big but too big for the space, even with the washer inlet pipe removed.

All sorted now - test passed and shh!! - you know what!

Paul said:

'Plus it should have headlamp washers'

Required for EU Homologation but not for the MoT test. But that's because some Japanese pick-ups don't have washers even though fitted with HID lights. But they can be imported and inspected and the import test examination doesn't require washers. Ergo, the MoT test doesn't require them. They have to be working if fitted however. (As does the auto levelling, which is in the same boat as above)

And re the beam pattern with halogen reflectors - see above - that is true, but only when the halogen units use the reflector to focus the beam. IS250s with halogen lights use projector beams which use the lens to produce the beam pattern. They are the same design to all intents and purposes as the oem HID projector beam lights. The difference is that they don't have a moveable screen which is removed when you switch to main beams (nor the steerable thing). The 'halogen' versions are permanently screened.

 

[Shaunomercy]

Nice summing up johnatg.

To be honest if you have halogens, then some proper decent bulbs like PIAA bulbs which are not cheap but cheaper than a hid kit will make a worthy upgrade to your headlights, without the hassles of wiring ballast units and swapping hid units out at mot time.
PIAA bulbs are very very bright and are used by numerous rally teams..

http://www.piaa.co.uk/bulbs/bulbs.asp

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[Linas.P]

On 11/15/2018 at 6:00 PM, johnatg said:

Major.
 

Great news.... long overdue. So tired with all re...... with their "pimped-up" death ray headlights explaining that they "do not dazzle". No pun intended @johnatg - I know they can be done "right"... but now lets be reasonable, how many people do them "right"? 2%, 5%.... I doubt even that. 

Especially, now when it goes dark early going back home is real pain... either people drive without lights in the dark, or they drive with mains, or with "super duper xenons". Funniest thing, when you blind them back with mains, they turn on their "main beam" which is actually less bright then they "dipped" one - explain that!