Tyre "skipping" on full lock

[Adrian 300H]

Hi all.

My IS300H has in the last few days developed a strange issue, when on a 3/4 or full lock it is like the tyre skips and you get a slight jerking sensation. It happens in both forward and reverse. I got it up on a lift and nothing obvious was noticed as being wrong. Also the tyre on the side with the issue is getting worn on the outside.

Any ideas?

Cheers.

[NemesisUK]

Rim and tyre sizes?

[Adrian 300H]

Standard 17 inch alloys, not sure on tyre width but can check tomorrow. 

[NemesisUK]

Lots of models from various marques suffer fro 'crabbing' due to low temperatures affecting low profile tyre sidewall flex.

That said 17" is not normally associated with this problem. 

What has changed in the last few days, apart from the obvious. Is it the same on both locks?

[Adrian 300H]

I have only noticed it on one side as i turn that direction coming out of the drive but will check both ways tomorrow.

No other change that i am aware of but have seen people mention bushings and tiecrods online, neither of which appeared to display any obvious wear when on the lift.

Its a strange one.

[NemesisUK]

Tyre pressures ok?

[Adrian 300H]

Yes, first thing i checked, 36psi all around

[steveledzep]

I experienced this on my RX at the beginning of this year.  I exit my driveway on to a narrow lane and I have to use full lock.  It was noisy too, as if the tyres were skipping across the surface of the road.

On full lock there's a difference between the rotation speed of the inner and outer sides of the tyre One side needs to go faster than the other as the radii being experienced is different.

My tyres were ready for a change on about 2.5mm, so there wasn't much tread available to flex and absorb this.

I changed my tyres to new Pirelli Scorpions all round in March and the problem has disappeared.

[Pink]

As Nemesis says above, the 17s aren’t exactly low profile tyres but I’m sure there’s probably still an impact of the colder weather on tyre walls compounds which might cause that skipping feeling, especially at the rare extremes of being on full lock   

I occasionally had similar sensations on my previous car. Ok, it was on low profile 19s summer rubber, but still it only ever happened in winter and on full lock leaving the driveway.  

[Vlady]

I have the same issue, I noticed that only when we moved to a new premises at work and started parking cars at underground parking - I blamed the concrete and wet (due to condensate) surface and cold ish temperatures as I did not notice any crabbing any where else. I have 18inch wheels with still decent thread left on Bridgestone.

[rich1068]

Used to have this on our XC90. Low speed maneuvering eg supermarket spaces. 19" wheels but certainly not low profile tyres though. Slightly disconcerting at first but then I just put it down to one of those things because I knew the car was mechanically spot on.

[Lexman59]

I have exactly the same issue and when the car went in for service at Lexus Cardiff I described the issue and straight away the service receptionist said it’s skip and it’s a common complaint, they checked it out and found no mechanical problems with the steering, that was last January and the tyres are wearing perfectly and car drives fine. Still get the skip while turning at slow speed.

[Guest]

Its a fact of most rear wheel drive cars. The rear wheels driving puts a sideways force on front wheels at a steep angle. Ie the angle is too steep for the radius they want to follow.

Sent from my BV5800 using Tapatalk

[Vlady]

52 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Its a fact of most rear wheel drive cars. The rear wheels driving puts a sideways force on front wheels at a steep angle. Ie the angle is too steep for the radius they want to follow.

Sent from my BV5800 using Tapatalk
 

I Have had 5 different rear driven cars and none of them did the "skipping" thing, only when it snowed, may be it is a Lexus thing?

[rayaans]

I have had this on the IS and the RX

Both times the tyres were less than 3 mm and the alignment was off.

New tyres and alignment cured the issue completely, even on a cold day when the tyres are fully warm

[gdh300]

Cynical, lower-quality "pile 'em high, sell 'em expensive" marques like Mercedes have had trouble with this tyre juddering issue (in their case, on the GLC). It's a 'characteristic' obviously, rather than a fault. 

[mrfunex]

My GSF does this when it gets cold. I’ve had a few other cars do it too. It’s a symptom of wide, low profile tyres losing their flexibility, coupled with the ‘cheaper’ way of managing the wheel geometry approaching full lock. It’s normal. 

(Obviously assuming nothing’s actually wrong with your IS300!)

[NemesisUK]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

I have had this on the IS and the RX

Both times the tyres were less than 3 mm and the alignment was off.

New tyres and alignment cured the issue completely, even on a cold day when the tyres are fully warm

How was it when the tyres were cold i.e. moving off driveway early morning?

[NemesisUK]

4 hours ago, gdh300 said:

Cynical, lower-quality "pile 'em high, sell 'em expensive" marques like Mercedes have had trouble with this tyre juddering issue (in their case, on the GLC). It's a 'characteristic' obviously, rather than a fault. 

Yup, Mercedes are having issues with a number of their models. The 'cure' is to fit winter tyres, which MB did FOC for many customers. 

I believe they now have some statement to the fact this happens and is not an issue, new buyers are aware before they purchase..

[matt8]

3 hours ago, mrfunex said:

coupled with the ‘cheaper’ way of managing the wheel geometry approaching full lock.

I am curious to know what the expensive way of managing wheel geometry is, and where that expensive (and presumably better) way is implemented (which cars).

Interesting!

[mrfunex]

As I understand it, modern cars don’t use perfect Ackermann geometry for steering due to handling reasons and design compromises. Maybe ‘expensive’ wasn’t the best way to describe it. 

Car designers tend to prioritise high speed stability over low speed steering for safety reasons. Mercedes recently got their design slightly incorrect and a large number of their 4wd cars exhibited large amounts of tyre scrub and skipping during low speed turns. 

[wharfhouse]

So the concensus is that it's quite common and not a problem then? 

[BigChange]

Had exactly the same and thought it was tyres slipping on wet leaves but apparently it has to do with the electric steering set up and is quite normal.  I have no abnormal tyre wear apart from the inner rear wheels and again, that is regarded as "normal".

[mrfunex]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

So the concensus is that it's quite common and not a problem then? 

Pretty much. 

[Adrian 300H]

Thanks for the info everyone and apologies for the delayed response. It seems to only occur when turning to the right, when turning left on full lock it doesnt "skip" as much or at all really. I will have to get it checked out further as i think it is more than what others have described above. I can actually feel the car jerk when it happens. If this is normal ill be annoyed at Lexus.