Too Flawed to Live With

Jules640 · October 22, 2018

After just over a year of ownership, I am beginning to wonder if the LC500 is just too flawed to live with on a daily basis and whether it is time to move on.

Looks wise it is an amazing car and is a real head turner but I'm not sure if this is enough.

I would be interested to hear other owners comments on the following:

There are places that the LC500 just can't go as it is too wide. UK Roads are not designed for a car that is this wide. The lack of a surround view camera which should be standard on a car like this just makes it worse.I went to a car park with a 2m width restriction yesterday and there was just no way I would risk trying to get in. On narrow roads you have to be really careful too.

The whole Infotainment system is poor. I am getting a lot of crashes where it just switches itself off and then comes back on again. It seems to forget what mode you were in and switches the split screen off.The SatNav sometimes shows the car in completely the wrong place. Stopping the car and restarting it seems to be the only way to fix this. The trackpad is very difficult to use when stationary and is all but unusable while driving.

The lack of any heated seats switches is really annoying. I know that you can set this to automatic but this means that they don't necessarily come on when you want them to and they never seem to get that hot. My car is a Sport and so this maybe due to the alcantara, perhaps the leather seats do get hotter.

The interior lighting is very poor. The ambient lighting all but switches itself off once you select Drive and now that the darker evenings are here, the courtesy lights are so small and dim that they do almost nothing to illuminate the interior when you open the doors.There is also no illumination of the heater and aircon controls making using these very difficult to use at night.

The auto high beam often does not work well, either dipping very late or switching the high beam on in a built up area. The day/night sensors are also far too sensitive.

Finally, I have a really annoying rattle from the front passenger seat which cannot be identified.

I may be tempted back to a German car, as while they may not have the looks, they do all of this stuff so much better.

Are these flaws common to Lexus vehicles in general or is just the LC?

Fatts · October 22, 2018

A surprising narrative Jules, I would like to hear what Lexus UK have to say, have you shared these concerns with them?.

secondly I will be aggrieved as much as you are if I had spent close to £80K on a car and finding all these issues.

malcolmw · October 22, 2018

Here are my comments:

- It's not so much the car width as the parking space size you need to get out and also ensure that you cannot be stopped from getting back in by a later arrival who parks close. This is, however, a common problem with 2 door coupes (my Aston was the same).

- The surround view cameras should be standard!

- I have had occasional crashes with the SatNav but very infrequently. I reset by pressing the radio on button for 5 seconds instead of switching off. I thought there was a software update to fix this issue. Yes, it does reset the split screen but this is not too much of an imposition.

- The Trackpad is useless and I just use it for initial setup only.

- I use the Climate Concierge and it seems to work well for me on leather seats. I had to fiddle around with the settings to get it to my liking though.

- I don't use the AHBC as it does not react fast enough to restore main beam in rural areas. I have the automatic headlight light level set to the minimum and this is just about OK but still switches the lights on under trees on a sunny day.

- I also have one rattle which is intermittent and comes from the dash area near the A/C vent near the driver's door. I am considering having this looked at but I am afraid that taking the dash apart might cause more issues. It's not too annoying, however.

On the plus side, the car is very docile in traffic, very fast on the open road and amazingly economical for a 5 lt V8. I still like it. No car is perfect (my Aston was very rattly) but everyone has to make their own decision. A lot of these specialist cars have issues like you identify so if you go elsewhere you may get different but just as annoying issues.

I looked at a BMW i8 softtop the other day and I liked it but is is £125K...

rayaans · October 23, 2018

It depends.

Ive driven the LC a number of times and I dont think its even that wide. It barely feels any wider than the RX, certainly not that I would notice in normal driving. I don't think its wider than an SUV either.

I would assume the sat nav thing is a software issue - probably will have an update but they take time as the car is fairly new.

Im yet to come across decent auto high beam systems yet. They all do funny things and manual override is just better. Ive had the headlight sensors to minimum in all my Lexus vehicles - just works better. The germans have sensitivity issues as well. VW for example turns the lights on in broad daylight sometimes.

I dont have the surround camera system on my RX and that much longer than an LC is and nearly as wide.

I think the LC is a car for the countryside - I certainly wouldn't bother having one in the city.

malcolmw · October 23, 2018

Just for comparison:

Model	Width	Width	Length
		(over mirrors)

DB9	1880	2061	4720

LC500	1920	2168	4770

RX450h	1895	2180	4890

The LC has its drawbacks but is IMO the best overall package and value in this market sector.

Where Lexus have fallen down in this higher end market is not allowing more individual choice of options to the purchaser. For example, the Sport and Sport Plus packages all have Alcantara instead of leather. Why? Is it so difficult to build to customer order? Why could't I get Sonic Red with cream leather interior?

I am not sure that I would reject a car because the interior lights are not bright enough 😉 but I understand that this may be the proverbial last straw. And, yes all AHBC systems which I have seen are not very good.

Jules640 · October 23, 2018

Malcolm, thanks for your comments.It is nice to know that it isn't just me with some of these things.

I had auto high beam in a BMW 640 and it worked very well.

I know the interior lights is a fairly minor thing but other cars at this level do it much better.The interior lighting in the Ford Focus is better than the LC!

I have had a test drive in a Mercedes E53 AMG coupe which is a ' mild hybrid'.

I realise that it doesn't have the looks of the LC but the technology is in an altogether different league. Interestingly the Mercedes has very small trackpads on the steering wheel which are really easy to use. I have only ever heard of criticism of the Lexus system. It is dangerous to try and use it on the move.

The performance was also far superior to the LC, in either the hybrid or the V8 form.

I think Lexus have concentrated too much on the looks and design.

I also think it is stupid that you can't have leather seats on the Sport and Sport plus. They are much nicer then the alcantara.

rayaans · October 23, 2018

1 hour ago, malcolmw said:

Just for comparison:

Model Width Width Length

(over mirrors)

DB9 1880 2061 4720

LC500 1920 2168 4770

RX450h 1895 2180 4890

The LC has its drawbacks but is IMO the best overall package and value in this market sector.

Where Lexus have fallen down in this higher end market is not allowing more individual choice of options to the purchaser. For example, the Sport and Sport Plus packages all have Alcantara instead of leather. Why? Is it so difficult to build to customer order? Why could't I get Sonic Red with cream leather interior?

I am not sure that I would reject a car because the interior lights are not bright enough 😉 but I understand that this may be the proverbial last straw. And, yes all AHBC systems which I have seen are not very good.

Confirms my suspicions. A grand total of 2.5cm by the looks of it. Spread that on both sides and it's nothing. Pretty sure Merc SUVs are wider

Oh I forgot to add I have no issues with the track pads but I've been using them for years. The haptic feedback is annoying though but I usually turn it off.

wendle · October 24, 2018

On 10/22/2018 at 5:11 PM, Jules640 said:

After just over a year of ownership, I am beginning to wonder if the LC500 is just too flawed to live with on a daily basis and whether it is time to move on.

Looks wise it is an amazing car and is a real head turner but I'm not sure if this is enough.

I would be interested to hear other owners comments on the following:

There are places that the LC500 just can't go as it is too wide. UK Roads are not designed for a car that is this wide. The lack of a surround view camera which should be standard on a car like this just makes it worse.I went to a car park with a 2m width restriction yesterday and there was just no way I would risk trying to get in. On narrow roads you have to be really careful too.

The whole Infotainment system is poor. I am getting a lot of crashes where it just switches itself off and then comes back on again. It seems to forget what mode you were in and switches the split screen off.The SatNav sometimes shows the car in completely the wrong place. Stopping the car and restarting it seems to be the only way to fix this. The trackpad is very difficult to use when stationary and is all but unusable while driving.

The lack of any heated seats switches is really annoying. I know that you can set this to automatic but this means that they don't necessarily come on when you want them to and they never seem to get that hot. My car is a Sport and so this maybe due to the alcantara, perhaps the leather seats do get hotter.

The interior lighting is very poor. The ambient lighting all but switches itself off once you select Drive and now that the darker evenings are here, the courtesy lights are so small and dim that they do almost nothing to illuminate the interior when you open the doors.There is also no illumination of the heater and aircon controls making using these very difficult to use at night.

The auto high beam often does not work well, either dipping very late or switching the high beam on in a built up area. The day/night sensors are also far too sensitive.

Finally, I have a really annoying rattle from the front passenger seat which cannot be identified.

I may be tempted back to a German car, as while they may not have the looks, they do all of this stuff so much better.

Are these flaws common to Lexus vehicles in general or is just the LC?

I have had the GS, RC-F and now the LC and to be honest I haven't really noticed much difference in width even though there is a difference, The GS was the first wide car I have ever owned and since then I tend to avoid width restrictions were I can. I have never had surround camera,s so can't comment on that.

as for the infotainment system, its not the best, how ever i think most systems, even touch control would have the same affect of you taking your eye of the road, most if not every thing i need can be used by either voice control or buttons on the steering wheel. Also I find the concierge system works ok for me, but agree buttons for the heated and cooled seats would have been nicer and easer to use.

you could possible replace the interior lighting with brighter bulbs, I notice this seems to be a thing reading posts on the US form.

I have never used the Auto High beam or any car which has had it, probably because I don't do much country driving so most if not all the roads are already well lit. one thing I have noticed is that I get flashed a lot with just my normal headlights on, does anyone else get this?, I have had the headlight's hight looked at by Lexus and a independent garage, both have said they are correctly adjusted.

Rattles are a right pain, though touch wood my is rattle free so far, its funny how Lexus drivers notice the slightest rattle or creak, I had a ride in my friends new BMW 5 series last week and noticed a rattle coming from the centre cancel, and his drivers seat made a clicking noise every time he went round a sharp corner, when we got to our destination i mentioned this to him and he was unaware of any noises.

I don't think there are common flaws to any make of car, I just think we all want/expect/like different things.

mrfunex · October 25, 2018

Very interesting to read this thread.

I’ve gone through the Lexus range slowly from a GS450h, an ISF, and currently have a GSF. I had a LC500 as a courtesy car a while back and apart from the stunning design and looks, I didn’t think it was different enough from the GSF to quite entice me to want one. Rear wheel steering aside, I found the performance, noise and driving feel to be extremely similar, but would have loved to have had the LC for more than 24hrs to try to ‘live with it’.

Many car reviews are all about the positives, but the negatives are just as relevant and important - every car has them. Sometimes the flaws can even make the car more interesting!

Bl##dy gorgeous, though!

MartinLexus · October 28, 2018

I don’t think I’d want an LC as an every day car. There are so many cars that do the job better.

Also, as already said, the German equivalents are now leagues ahead in terms of infotainment systems and also performance.

LC500 is a stunning car, but personally I’d save money, buy any F car and run a nice luxury daily as well.

Chris Skelton · November 5, 2018

AS I've referred to before....The old ad for a 2CV had a list of (othercar's) features that the 2CV didn't have.

At the bottom it said "nothing to go wrong"!

tomRCFcarbon · November 8, 2018

On 10/28/2018 at 7:40 AM, MartinLexus said:

I don’t think I’d want an LC as an every day car. There are so many cars that do the job better.

Also, as already said, the German equivalents are now leagues ahead in terms of infotainment systems and also performance.

LC500 is a stunning car, but personally I’d save money, buy any F car and run a nice luxury daily as well.

Out of interest, which cars and what jobs are you referring to.

As far as I can tell from owning one and driving the other the LC500 is simply a better looking RCF with a better gearbox and smaller rear seats.

The infotainment system (if we must call it that) sounds better than every German equivalent I’ve heard and whilst it is true that the trackpad is maddeningly esoteric vs the BMW, Audi and MB it isn’t bad enough to warrant downgrading to a mass produced, German, turbo-charged equivalent.

As was once said about the Integrale: ‘you prefer it for the way it goes and steers, you love it for all of its faults’.

November 8, 2018

Better looking? Should be a spec savers locally ;)

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MNMJ · November 9, 2018

22 hours ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

As far as I can tell from owning one and driving the other the LC500 is simply a better looking RCF with a better gearbox and smaller rear seats.

.

And a much smaller boot. How did they get the packaging on the LC500 so wrong?

malcolmw · November 9, 2018

They didn't "get it wrong". The car is aimed at a different market and price segment to the RC and thus has different features to be comparable to competitors in that sector.

November 9, 2018

LC was marketed as a GT no? Need a bigger boot for longer journeys surely?

That its smaller with smaller rear seats seems they sacrificed that to get the engine more behind the front axle. How much use it that to most people?

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NemesisUK · November 9, 2018

17 minutes ago, Comedian said:

LC was marketed as a GT no?

I think it was the motoring press that hung the GT label on the LC. Lexus just seems to simply refer to it as a 'luxury coupe'

I don't think there's even cursory nod to practicality in the LC's design. It's all about looks and the driving experience and all the better for it IMHO

November 9, 2018

True, but if the rc was considered a sports coupe because they pitched at m4 then it follows if you pitch lc against Aston Martin..... But they ( Sports, GT) are just names. US have best name for them, pony cars. IMHO.

You say better for it ( dynamically?) but there's no evidence for that any more than Wikipedia calling it a grand tourer v Lexus luxury coupe. An extra 200 kg over rc doesn't help.

Mixed message marketing again?

Maybe our disagreement highlights the issue of Lexus' branding?

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bvhout · November 16, 2018

I'm still quite happy with my LC500, but I tend to agree that I'm not sure about it as a daily driver. The same is true from my motorcycles.

I use a 2011 mercedes CL500 and a 2007 citroen C6 as daily drivers. Nowadays both can be picked up quite inexepensively (although I need to warn about the costs of repair for the c6).

Quite often the LC500 is my children's (11 and 12 years old) car of choice on the schoolrun. One child in the passenger seat and one in the back behind the passenger seat.

I bought it because I think it's beautiful. There are many cars which are better in some aspects, none of those have me decide that I shoud trade it in.

However, would I ever come into financial difficulties, the LC500 is probabaly the first to be sold. Or maybe after the motorcycles. Or no, after my wife's horses.

rayaans · November 16, 2018

1 hour ago, bvhout said:

I'm still quite happy with my LC500, but I tend to agree that I'm not sure about it as a daily driver. The same is true from my motorcycles.

I use a 2011 mercedes CL500 and a 2007 citroen C6 as daily drivers. Nowadays both can be picked up quite inexepensively (although I need to warn about the costs of repair for the c6).

Quite often the LC500 is my children's (11 and 12 years old) car of choice on the schoolrun. One child in the passenger seat and one in the back behind the passenger seat.

I bought it because I think it's beautiful. There are many cars which are better in some aspects, none of those have me decide that I shoud trade it in.

However, would I ever come into financial difficulties, the LC500 is probabaly the first to be sold. Or maybe after the motorcycles. Or no, after my wife's horses.

Id probably sell the wife and call it a day 🙂

FrzingNuts · November 17, 2018

Mine is not a daily driver but it is probably the best made, most complete car I've ever owned. I've owned a total of around 35 performance vehicles over the years.

Yes it has flaws but the sensory response I get from it is second to none. Could it do with being quicker? Yes it could. Could the infotainment be better and more intuitive? Yes it could. Could it do with 360 panoramic cameras? Yes it could.

None of those seem to bother me and it is the first car in years I am considering keeping for longer than a year or two.

PS. Having got Miracast to work with my android phone is a bonus (Huawei mate 20 pro) as I could not get Bluetooth media working on it at all. Haven't been to the dealer for updates but I suspect they must have one for the satnav system.