My new GS

[Shahpor]

Thanks Vlad, I appreciate you checking.

I have only ever put good fuel in it (no supermarket fuel) and the oil is changed by the dealer, so I am not sure what I can do to quieten it down.

I suspect the dealer is going to tell me the noise is normal though..

[OldTrout]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:56 PM, Shahpor said:

It is a good point regarding where it is located.

I have always wondered whether Japanese manufacturers prefer designing their cars with RHD configurations since they drive on the left in Japan, or whether they cater for the majority of their customers who do the opposite?

Regarding my car, it might be that more gremlins have appeared.  Recently I have been driving without my stereo on (primarily because my misses objects to the quality songs I play!) and have discovered some new noises.

The first noise is obvious for the first few seconds after the car starts.  However, it will only do it after being left overnight.  I don't suppose any other 450h owners would care to comment on whether theirs is the same?

Listen here:

 

 

The second noise is more difficult to make out, but when I move the seat base on the passenger side the motor makes a 'knocking' sound.  It does it occasionally going forward, but much more frequently backwards.  It also only produces the noise when no one is in the seat.

 

Am I being too sensitive with these little 'hiccups'?  The car is over 5 years old now and crossed 75,000 miles today, so perhaps I am being too picky?

There is one more quirk that I wanted to ask owners about.  Have you ever experienced any juddering whilst under constantly light/moderate braking?  I have noticed recently that when, for example, braking coming up to a set of lights for 3-5 seconds, the car sometimes 'kangaroo's' to a stop?  Since it doesn't use the brakes to slow down, I thought it might be a foible the car has?  If not, then I am struggling to explain it other than it might be the road surface, but my old IS used these same roads without issue.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Shahpor,

You have one of theses fancy Mk 4s so it may not be the same but there was a thread about a startup noise on Mk 3s. From memory it was thought to be due to no oil somewhere high up on the engine where pressure holds a mechanism in position. Lack of pressure and it isn't held tightly and rattles a bit. VVT perhaps? As soon as the oil pressure builds up the rattles stop. You say doesn't happen very time the engine is started but only when it has stood overnight. If it is the same Britprus has a cunning fix but it's not one Lexus would do for you. He will advise.

John

[OldTrout]

Found the thread. Is this your problem too?

 

[Shahpor]

Thanks very much for the info John.

The sound from that thread does sound similar to mine, albeit much shorter.

It might very well be a VVT rattle, but I wouldn't expect such a loud noise to be normal.

If it is found to be the VVT gear, I wonder if the issue is something the warranty would cover or would it be considered wear and tear?

Indecently, regarding the passenger seat, something interesting has happened; two different people have told me that the seat moved slightly forward by itself after the car was turned off and they opened the door.  Not sure if it related to the noise, but it is certainly an odd thing that is happening.

These are small niggles, but they are somewhat taking the shine off a car only purchased 3 months ago.  Having said that, I still love it and it puts a smile on my face when I drive it.

[royoftherovers]

55 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Thanks very much for the info John.

The sound from that thread does sound similar to mine, albeit much shorter.

It might very well be a VVT rattle, but I wouldn't expect such a loud noise to be normal.

If it is found to be the VVT gear, I wonder if the issue is something the warranty would cover or would it be considered wear and tear?

Indecently, regarding the passenger seat, something interesting has happened; two different people have told me that the seat moved slightly forward by itself after the car was turned off and they opened the door.  Not sure if it related to the noise, but it is certainly an odd thing that is happening.

These are small niggles, but they are somewhat taking the shine off a car only purchased 3 months ago.  Having said that, I still love it and it puts a smile on my face when I drive it.

Why consider wear and tear? You have not had the car for 6 months yet, so the STATUTORY Warranty still applies Shahpor.

 

Regards

John

[ColinBarber]

23 hours ago, Shahpor said:

The only confusing thing is that I was under the impression that the car doesn't use the brakes until the last 5mph during gentle braking?  If so, then it surely couldn't be the brakes?

Regen braking will be used where possible but it can only provide a certain amount of resistance. If you need more then conventional brakes will also apply in combination with electric braking. If the needle moves to the bottom of the regen section of the power meter then any greater braking force is from mechanical brakes.

The amount of regen braking force possible will be reduced if the batteries are full or over temperature, at which point the needle will move to the bottom of the regen section much sooner than you were expecting.

 

You should have no concern over the 'complex' brake system. It works well and is proven across all Toyota hybrids for 20+ years. The only 'disadvantage' you can get is that if you are the type of driver that is light on brakes then almost all will be electric rather than mechanical, and as the latter gets little use that can start to seize and the discs will corrode which leads to noise so it is always worth performing a few hard stops every few weeks. The benefit is brakes pads and discs can easily last 40k+ miles.

 

[Shahpor]

41 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Why consider wear and tear? You have not had the car for 6 months yet, so the STATUTORY Warranty still applies Shahpor.

 

Regards

John

I knew you would say that John

[Shahpor]

2 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Regen braking will be used where possible but it can only provide a certain amount of resistance. If you need more then conventional brakes will also apply in combination with electric braking. If the needle moves to the bottom of the regen section of the power meter then any greater braking force is from mechanical brakes.

The amount of regen braking force possible will be reduced if the batteries are full or over temperature, at which point the needle will move to the bottom of the regen section much sooner than you were expecting.

 

You should have no concern over the 'complex' brake system. It works well and is proven across all Toyota hybrids for 20+ years. The only 'disadvantage' you can get is that if you are the type of driver that is light on brakes then almost all will be electric rather than mechanical, and as the latter gets little use that can start to seize and the discs will corrode which leads to noise so it is always worth performing a few hard stops every few weeks. The benefit is brakes pads and discs can easily last 40k+ miles.

 

I did not know about the needle thing, so thanks for the info Colin.

It is sounding more and more likely that my brake issue is going to be with the mechanical system as opposed to hybrid, so if that is the case then I can see the dealer telling me to replace the disks and pads before doing anything else.  That would also leave me with the diagnosis bill on top.

Either way, I don't like the idea of changing parts as a diagnostic method, especially when a report from the same dealer told me less than a month ago that they were in good condition, so they aren't even worn out. 

[Hangie]

I’ve just taken following video after 2 days not starting the car and cold nights.

phone was almost under the car. When I listen carefully I can hear that short sound before starting the engine. For sure it is shorter and more gentle than yours.

when engine is idling both sounds very similar and a bit rough to get better after a while.

short lack of audio is due the phone connecting via  Bluetooth 🙂 

[royoftherovers]

37 minutes ago, Hangie said:

I’ve just taken following video after 2 days not starting the car and cold nights.

phone was almost under the car. When I listen carefully I can hear that short sound before starting the engine. For sure it is shorter and more gentle than yours.

when engine is idling both sounds very similar and a bit rough to get better after a while.

short lack of audio is due the phone connecting via  Bluetooth 🙂 

 

8021420B-F196-46B1-A5AE-0BCA0B66BC91.MOV

Sounds like mine has done for the past 5 years and 37,000 miles !!

[Shahpor]

55 minutes ago, Hangie said:

I’ve just taken following video after 2 days not starting the car and cold nights.

phone was almost under the car. When I listen carefully I can hear that short sound before starting the engine. For sure it is shorter and more gentle than yours.

when engine is idling both sounds very similar and a bit rough to get better after a while.

short lack of audio is due the phone connecting via  Bluetooth 🙂 

 

8021420B-F196-46B1-A5AE-0BCA0B66BC91.MOV

Thank you very much @Hangie I very much appreciate your help

It is looking more and more likely that it is a normal sound, albeit slightly rougher than usual on mine.  I am interested to see what the dealer says now.

On a side note, can I just say how incredibly nice and helpful you have all been on this thread and it is all of you that make this forum such a great place to hang out.

[Vlady]

4 hours ago, Hangie said:

I’ve just taken following video after 2 days not starting the car and cold nights.

phone was almost under the car. When I listen carefully I can hear that short sound before starting the engine. For sure it is shorter and more gentle than yours.

when engine is idling both sounds very similar and a bit rough to get better after a while.

short lack of audio is due the phone connecting via  Bluetooth 🙂 

 

Sounds like mine or very close to it. Hey, I came from a diesel and this is for me is still smooth! lol.

[Vlady]

@Shahpor I think I might be having the same issue with the brakes, I never put a post on it as I didn't know how to explain it, the thing is, sometimes it is there (vibrations) sometimes not, when front discs on my Passat were getting thin they worpped (how do you spell this word?) and I changed the discs the vibration was gone but i am sure this is not the case with GS as my discs have done only 36K! So not sure what that is and I wouldn't like to pay the garage for nothing! 

It doesn't help @Shahpor but I will be waiting for your outcome.

Vlad 

[Shahpor]

It's spelt warped

I did think this might be the case, but it is hard to tell because of the hybrid braking system.  I suppose changing discs and pads would be a sensible first place, but you could argue that there shouldn't be anything wrong with them that a few hard stops shouldn't cure.

I will certainly report back what happens, but I am not expecting any definitive answers from the dealer at this point.

[Farqui]

Before you change disks/pads you really need to ensure you regularly brake hard to keep the disks clean.

 

Mine had this after purchase but the disks were very corroded. I renewed the disks/pads and all was smooth for a few miles.

 

Then the pulsing started again and I wondered about warped disks. Until my MOT, after which all was smooth again. The brake test cleared up the pulsing :)

 

Sitting at junctions with the brakes applied seems to leave friction material on parts of the disks that then causes pulsing when braking. Mostly regen braking under normal driving means that the pads don't clean up the disks sufficiently and will need a few good hard stops to clear the build up.

 

Slamming on the brakes periodically keeps the pulsing in check. It's also easier and cheaper than fitting new disks every few miles ;)

[Shahpor]

Thanks Lee.

I did do a few stops, but perhaps they weren't hard enough.

Next time I am out I will find a quiet area and give my brakes a good workout

[Farqui]

That's definitely worth a try. I have to admit that it feels counter intuitive to the generally relaxed nature of the car. I mostly tend to coast and roll with mine.

[Hangie]

In old days when I got my Honda Accord 2.2 from 1998 I got constant problems with brakes - sqeiking, pulsating etc.

It went away when once on the A10 (Berlin orbital road) some old driver has decided to change lane without checking the mirror. I got occasion to test breakes and ABS efficiency from 210km/h to 90km/h in a very short distance. After that all problems went away.

[Farqui]

Another positive of regular brake stompin' is to help free your slider pins.

[Britprius]

18 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Thanks Lee.

I did do a few stops, but perhaps they weren't hard enough.

Next time I am out I will find a quiet area and give my brakes a good workout

Shifting to neutral before braking forces the use of the normal brakes since the regen cannot work in neutral. This method is also kinder to the tyres as you can use the brakes over a longer period while descending a hill. Going back into drive while still moving is not problematic or harmful.

John.

[Shahpor]

Excellent idea John

I will definitely try it as you describe and see if it makes a difference.

Thank you very much.

[Vlady]

Looks like it is a few hard stops for me too, will report later on it.

Good idea about doing it in Neutral!

[Shahpor]

Well, the latest update is that the dealer didn't find much wrong.

The noise on start up is apparently normal - They compared it to another GS450h they had there and said it made the same noise.  They are guessing that it is building up oil pressure, but I am not totally convinced.

Anyway, the brake judder was put down to warped discs.  The technician did feel the judder and said it felt similar to another car that had warped discs.  Since they are lipped and the pads have around 3mm left on them, the first step will be the change them and see what happens.

So, does anyone know if changing the brakes on my GS is any different from any other car?  Also, is there a good source for parts that someone can recommend?  The dealer quoted me £345 to do it.

[Farqui]

Did the dealer check disk run out using a dial gauge?

If your disks/pads are well worn then they're definitely worth changing but don't be surprised if the judder eventually returns (due to pad build-up).

[Shahpor]

They didn't check the run out, but like you say, they are worth changing anyway.

Hmm, I wonder whether it is worth getting the dealer to change the brakes after all?  That way, if the judder returns I can return it to them as faulty whereas that could prove difficult if I get it done myself.