My new GS

[royoftherovers]

18 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

It is a good point regarding where it is located.

I have always wondered whether Japanese manufacturers prefer designing their cars with RHD configurations since they drive on the left in Japan, or whether they cater for the majority of their customers who do the opposite?

Regarding my car, it might be that more gremlins have appeared.  Recently I have been driving without my stereo on (primarily because my misses objects to the quality songs I play!) and have discovered some new noises.

The first noise is obvious for the first few seconds after the car starts.  However, it will only do it after being left overnight.  I don't suppose any other 450h owners would care to comment on whether theirs is the same?

Listen here:

 

 

The second noise is more difficult to make out, but when I move the seat base on the passenger side the motor makes a 'knocking' sound.  It does it occasionally going forward, but much more frequently backwards.  It also only produces the noise when no one is in the seat.

See if you can hear it:

 

 

Am I being too sensitive with these little 'hiccups'?  The car is over 5 years old now and crossed 75,000 miles today, so perhaps I am being too picky?

There is one more quirk that I wanted to ask owners about.  Have you ever experienced any juddering whilst under constantly light/moderate braking?  I have noticed recently that when, for example, braking coming up to a set of lights for 3-5 seconds, the car sometimes 'kangaroo's' to a stop?  Since it doesn't use the brakes to slow down, I thought it might be a foible the car has?  If not, then I am struggling to explain it other than it might be the road surface, but my old IS used these same roads without issue.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Shahpor, "See if you can hear it":.......you mean listen if you can hear it !

[Shahpor]

Whoops

Not going to edit it now, but you are absolutely right.

What's interesting is that I use the phrase 'see if you can hear it' in conversation with the context of 'examine this...', so it has taken on a double meaning for me.  That's what you get for writing phonetically I suppose.

[OldTrout]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

I am left handed John.

I use the mouse in my right hand and use two hands on the keyboard.

I operate the car systems with my left hand as is required.

I eat right handed, wear my watch on my left wrist and play golf left handed.

I played cricket left handed with a right handed bat.

I wrote badly at school left handed because they gave me a right handed nib in the pen. 

I played tennis,table tennis and squash left handed.

I cannot use right handed scissors, but can use a right handed potato peeler.

Your question has opened a bag of worms my friend!

John,

Keep most of the worms in the bag and tell us how you find the Lexus mouse. 

John

 

[royoftherovers]

2 hours ago, OldTrout said:

John,

Keep most of the worms in the bag and tell us how you find the Lexus mouse. 

John

 

You should have guessed by now Hercule. I do not have one. My Gen3 GS450h was obviously designed by a left handed designer for left handed drivers.

Happy New Year John.

[ColinBarber]

8 hours ago, OldTrout said:

Any left handed drivers care to comment?

John

I'm left handed, and use a mouse in my left hand and don't really have an issue with Lexus' remote touch that others do. I've often wondered if most people who complain use a mouse in their right hand.

[OldTrout]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

You should have guessed by now Hercule. I do not have one. My Gen3 GS450h was obviously designed by a left handed designer for left handed drivers.

Happy New Year John.

I know the Gen 3 is mouse-free but you might have had a curtesy car🙂

 

30 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

I'm left handed, and use a mouse in my left hand and don't really have an issue with Lexus' remote touch that others do. I've often wondered if most people who complain use a mouse in their right hand.

Ah ha. As I suspected.

Hercule

[ColinBarber]

23 hours ago, Shahpor said:

I hate you even more now....

 

But seriously,  I thought they were all the same from 2013 till 2016 when the facelift came in?

Double checked the change history, HUD was added to the 450h Premier at the same time the 300h came out - factory built from Oct 2013, in the UK from Jan 2014.

[steveledzep]

If I may join in the left/right handed thing.  I'm right handed and do everything exactly the way you'd expect.  With my left hand I can't write my name and I'm very uncomfortable using a screwdriver and inaccurate if using a saw.  YET.....I play guitar (of sorts) and the left hand needs to be very accurate and quick, far more demanding a role than the right hand.  How does that work ?

[ColinBarber]

23 minutes ago, steveledzep said:

I play guitar (of sorts) and the left hand needs to be very accurate and quick, far more demanding a role than the right hand.  How does that work ?

I'm left handed but play a right handed guitar which has its advantages. Like Mark Knopfler, in only that way 😞

[Ala Larj]

9 hours ago, i-s said:

That's an interesting possibility. 

Handedness is a funny thing - I'm right handed, and in general find myself somewhat klutzy with my left - I can't write legibly with it. However, when doing fine SMD soldering (I'm an electronic engineer) the reverse is true - I have the soldering iron in my right, and do the fine positioning with my SMD tweezers in my left. The finer motor skill is in the left hand in that case. It's a matter of conditioning and practice. 

Which is exactly where i suspect that the lexus mouse falls - once you get used to it then it's fine. At first it seems awkward, but once you get used to how it works, what it will and will not respond to, etc then it will be ok. Motoring journalists generally don't have that much patience. 

This is an interesting point. I prefer the mouse thing on my GS to the touch screen on my old IS, even though I'm right handed. Maybe it's because I play guitar. I've always found it weird that all the complex twiddly bits are done with my left hand! Ask me to write something with my left hand or use a screwdriver and I'd be lost. Ask me to play the solo in stairway to heaven and I'd have no problems! 

[Ala Larj]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Double checked the change history, HUD was added to the 450h Premier at the same time the 300h came out - factory built from Oct 2013, in the UK from Jan 2014.

My 2014 GS premier has HUD. Couldn't live without it here in Lincolnshire with its plethora of speed cameras!

[Hangie]

As for noises. Mine is very similar to the 1st one. I have never heard that first bit before starting the engine but I wasn't putting my ears into wheel arches as you 🙂

Engine is starting top at higher revs plus I guess we can hear gearbox electric motors there. Maybe there is some charging self test just after start. I'm not worried about it though.

Seat wise maybe you got some dirt on the rails. If it really bothering you take out the seat and lube everything should help.

[Shahpor]

Thanks @Hangie

You can actually hear the engine noise from inside the car, but I thought I would make it easier for everyone by recording it up close.

For the seat, I agree it is probably something simple, so I might have a word with the service guys at the dealer the next time it is in there.

I don't suppose you are experiencing any of the juddering I mentioned?

[Hangie]

From inside of the car I can only hear those high revs and that extra sound that I thing is coming from the electric motor somewhere. I can't hear at all this clicking sound before engine fire up - maybe it is an oil pump that is rebuilding pressure.

Nope I haven't noticed any juddering but my brakes set is just 20k miles old where yours are probably still back from 2013. You could try to give it a good break for few times like 80-10mph to clear them. 

Eventually to be sure which part of breaking system does it use gearbox selector to break. Put car into "1" then it is only "engine"/rear axle breaking. If juddering will disappears check front discs/pads/callipers. If it still will be there maybe suspension or something with gearbox/diff/axles. 

[Shahpor]

Thanks again.

I have booked it into Lexus Reading on the 14th to have a check anyway.  I suppose if they claim it is normal than that at least gives me a little peace of mind.

True that my brakes are probably quite old, but I am reluctant to change them since they apparently have plenty of life left.  I did try a couple of hard stops, but it hasn't made any difference.

Good idea regarding trying manual mode engine braking.  I will give it a go next time I can and see if it makes any difference.  The annoying thing is that unless it does it whilst engine braking, I can't be sure because the fault is intermittent.  Still, it is a place to start.

[st4]

I wonder if the difficulty drivers have with the mouse in a RHD car is because they are right handed. All the skills we have with computer mice in the right hand have to be relearnt in the left hand.
Any left handed drivers care to comment?
John
 

I find the mouse totally easy and intuitive to use. I’m right handed. It’s easy.

The GS is simply by far the best car you can buy today.


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[st4]

You should have guessed by now Hercule. I do not have one. My Gen3 GS450h was obviously designed by a left handed designer for left handed drivers.
Happy New Year John.

All Lexus cars are designed from America. The way they “bong” when the doors left open, the resolute resistance to fit a diseasal engine etc. The range over there is massive. We don’t get the LX or GX SuV, they get lots more engines in the model like. New ES350 for instance, IS, RC, GS350 with 4wd or rear drive. The new LS can be had with a 10spd 3.0 twin turbo non hybrid there.

It’s an amazing range we don’t get to get.


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[superatticman]

On 1/1/2019 at 12:34 AM, Shahpor said:

Nice one

Was it a painless experience and did the haggling go well?

Overall pretty good. 

Original asking price £13,400

Threw in an offer of £600 less the asking price. Or forecourt price plus an additional 36 month warranty thrown in. Came back with a counter offer of asking price plus additional 24 month warranty. Total = 3 years. Stuck my hand out at £13,300 and this was accepted. 

Give the FSH and very low mileage of 25k they probably feel fair safe giving a very generous warranty. If nothing goes wrong with it over three years then my haggling doesn't really return a huge amount of value. However if nothing goes wrong with it over three years then for me its a great buy at £100 less the asking price! Would rather 100% reliability than feeling like I'm getting one over a dealer by having expensive bits replaced under warranty. So a kind of win - win. 

Drove home through a cloud of salt being spread so already that clean looking front end is  soiled!!!!!!!!

Quick rinse and pics up tomorrow. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shahpor]

Nice one Adam

@Hangie I tried what you suggested, slowing down using the gears and didn't notice any issues.  Of course, it was hard to modulate the speed using only the gearbox, so it wasn't the smoothest test.  It has started to do it more often now though, so I am starting to think it might be the brakes after all.  The only confusing thing is that I was under the impression that the car doesn't use the brakes until the last 5mph during gentle braking?  If so, then it surely couldn't be the brakes?

I am concerned that the dealer is going to charge me £186 to tell me I need new brakes!

Regarding the start up noise, are there any kind GS450h owners out there that might have a listen to theirs first thing in the morning to see if it sounds similar to mine?  Not having owned the car long, I can't tell if it is supposed to be there or not.

Thanks.

[superatticman]

6 hours ago, st4 said:

 

All Lexus cars are designed from America. The way they “bong” when the doors left open, the resolute resistance to fit a diseasal engine etc. The range over there is massive. We don’t get the LX or GX SuV, they get lots more engines in the model like. New ES350 for instance, IS, RC, GS350 with 4wd or rear drive. The new LS can be had with a 10spd 3.0 twin turbo non hybrid there.

It’s an amazing range we don’t get to get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I think that's why I knew the GS was right for me from day one. I like that 'American' feel. Ok, so handling tends to be sacrificed a tad for a softer ride. No problem with this as I don't rag my cars anyway. But you are spot on regarding the ranges available in the USA. This applies to most Japanese brands too. Not only in models available but engine's available too. We'd lost most of our tough as nails, super-reliable, well appointed Japanese 6 cylinder mid-large size cars in the mid 2000's. Aggressive marketing, large diesel engines and the availability of PCP etc meant that the Germans more or less cleaned up in the larger car market. However, those buying second hand often found themselves on the receiving end of huge, unexpected bills once the warranty expired. The Americans are less badge obsessed too and see Honda, Toyota and Lexus as being 'prestige' brands. They also value reliability too. 

Have a look at larger Honda/Toyota/Lexus cars for sale on an American dealers site. You will see far more engine choices and trim levels. Plus a handful of large 2 door (proper) Coupes that were removed from the UK market years ago. 

 

[KayCee]

Shapor

 

That sounds Like the Direct Injection pump I had it on mine I put some Whins Fuel cleaner in and it got a lot quieter i suspect that you could maybe use Redex but have never used that in mine

I then Got Lexus to fit me a Pump insulator and now you can hardly hear it at all

Robert

[Hangie]

You never know with brakes on a GS. When you press the pedal anything can happened. Ideally you want to use regenerative breaking all the time but you also need to use hydraulics to clean the surface of disc from time to time. There must also be some HV conditioning behaviour - that you might not want to charge it at that given time when you are breaking and then hydraulics need to be used etc. 

Maybe that is why it is intermittent as hydraulics are not always used and when not all is good 🙂

With conventional breaks when you got this kangaroo jumps it means that breaking force is not equal in a function of time. When you are moving slower disc is rotating slower so you can feel those weak spots for longer. Quite easy check is to lift up the car and manually rotate the wheels while gently applying the brake. You might be able to feel something.

 

Finally about the noise. I'm using shell premium fuels and never heard injector pump. I'll check today though by starting the engine with open door to check if I got anything similar. 

[st4]

 
I think that's why I knew the GS was right for me from day one. I like that 'American' feel. Ok, so handling tends to be sacrificed a tad for a softer ride. No problem with this as I don't rag my cars anyway. But you are spot on regarding the ranges available in the USA. This applies to most Japanese brands too. Not only in models available but engine's available too. We'd lost most of our tough as nails, super-reliable, well appointed Japanese 6 cylinder mid-large size cars in the mid 2000's. Aggressive marketing, large diesel engines and the availability of PCP etc meant that the Germans more or less cleaned up in the larger car market. However, those buying second hand often found themselves on the receiving end of huge, unexpected bills once the warranty expired. The Americans are less badge obsessed too and see Honda, Toyota and Lexus as being 'prestige' brands. They also value reliability too. 
Have a look at larger Honda/Toyota/Lexus cars for sale on an American dealers site. You will see far more engine choices and trim levels. Plus a handful of large 2 door (proper) Coupes that were removed from the UK market years ago. 
 

Agree totally and the best bit is my GS gives a Merc S class like ride but the wizards in Japan have engineered it so well it will comfortable out handle an E class and even a C. It’s an unexpected shock to revel in what is actually a good “drivers” car that’s as comfortable as this.

I too have come to appreciate the “American” way. They get Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans you’d actually want.


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[Shahpor]

Thanks @KayCee and @Hangie

If it is the injector pump then I hope the dealer can do something about it at least.  It would also confirm that I am not just hearing things.

This is my first hybrid car and the braking stuff is a worry.  I am concerned that the complexity of the system could cause difficulty in diagnosing and braking problems.  Last thing I want to do is start replacing parts in the hope it solves it.  It also means for me risking a diagnostic charge of £186 if it isn't a warranty issue.

Thanks for checking for the noise this morning @Hangie.  I look forward to hearing the result.

[Vlady]

4 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Thanks @KayCee and @Hangie

If it is the injector pump then I hope the dealer can do something about it at least.  It would also confirm that I am not just hearing things.

This is my first hybrid car and the braking stuff is a worry.  I am concerned that the complexity of the system could cause difficulty in diagnosing and braking problems.  Last thing I want to do is start replacing parts in the hope it solves it.  It also means for me risking a diagnostic charge of £186 if it isn't a warranty issue.

Thanks for checking for the noise this morning @Hangie.  I look forward to hearing the result.

Hi Shahpor, I also checked the noise this morning when I started the car, may be I have something similar to your but not to this extend, the engine a bit coarse anyway when it's starting cold but settles down pretty quickly, it never worried me as I thought it is normal. I think it could be hydro-pneumatic compensators and it takes a few seconds to warm up? 

Some say better fuel will fix it, some say better engine oil will cure it.

I need to remember and make a video of the car in the morning.