ISF intakes, what are you using?

[Twellsie]

So, two weeks in to ISF ownership, as some of you may have seen I am already looking into new exhaust manifolds, however as an engineer I am inspired to look deeper.

There seems to be many claims from over the pond that changing the intake pipe from the air filter to throttle body give a few HP benefit, I work in induction and fuelling for a UK car brand, so would be inclined to agree that by removing  the resonator and convoluted sections this would be of benefit on such a large capacity engine, but these will be negligible, I'm bothered about the sound!

 

I do however need to question some of the claims from over the pond, as many of these claims seem to be based on apparent back to back dyne runs, but with little to no control between runs. 

 

I therefore am disregarding the views of our American friends (which is great as my girlfriend finds it so insulting) and so will do my own thing.

 Pre-divorce I spent a **** loads of money making a Ford Sierra go very fast, working with my tuner we tried numerous options of airbox  configurations, however it was very evident early on that dyno figures were very different to real word figures and therefore open cone filters gave huge benefits in real world driving, with the exception of sitting in traffic, but my view is who needs for than 400hp to sit in traffic?

 

So the plan, come up with a  open cone air filter set up, that sounds awesome and deliver comparable performance, but sound better!!

 

Will be updating when the GF';s parents deliver the bits!!

[NothernDan]

Hi Rich, 

I’m currently in the process of designing and building my own custom intake for the ISF having tried two of the most popular ones and looked very closely at the rest that are on the market. In my uneducated opinion there are none on the market that are as good as they could be. All are either heat soaking like mad or restrictive in one way or another. Yes, lots of them look and sound great but I’m looking for the best possible seal against under bonnet heat and a greatly increased availability of cooler air. Paired with a larger surface area filter medium and increased diameter intake tubing I’m hoping for greater gains in terms of both HP and decibels!

Given your credentials I’d be very keen to discuss my thinking with you, particularly around how the volume of the sealed off area affects things. Will a larger or smaller sealed enclosure to house the cone filter inside work better given a greater availability of cool/ambient external temperature air? I’m not sure if a larger volume is better here given a specific cone size? (what is best,  just big enough to house the filter or as big a volume enclosure as it can possibly be).

The guys at RR racing stateside have arguably one of the better intake systems but as above it’s not fully sealed. It also (apparently) requires a remap to allow the MAF sensor to cope with the increased airflow through 83mm ID intake tubing. That’s the same diameter I’m working my system around ( that’s the ID of the actual inlet into the engine) so I’d be keen to get your views on that too.

I’ll drop you a PM so we can have a proper chat.

You're coming on Saturday right?

Dan

 

[Twellsie]

unfortunately this is pretty hard to to guess without simulation, each solution fully closed air box, partially closed air box and open cone all have their trade offs, 

The coldest air is always going to be that entering the car from the front, in a fully closed box you get a ram air effect, but you are potentially restricted by the inlet to the air box, dependent on routing and available space  then if you consider that that the air box needs to be balanced to its induction rate, too big this will create still air which will be susceptible to heat soak too small and it will be a restriction (hence the standard box has a flap that opens above a certain RPM) .pretty much impossible to get this right without simulation.

Partially closed boxes, address the issue of still air and restriction whilst in motion, but susceptible to heat soak when stationary.

Open cone allows for the biggest, least restrictive filter to be fitted, but again susceptible to heat soak  when stationary.

 

 

 

So from my own learnings, induction temps on NA cars are far less critical than that of Turbo charged cars, a few years ago i was involved in an article with Fast Ford magazine where we did back to back dyno runs with my Sierra Cosworth, comparing the standard 4x4 intercooler, to a genuine RS500 intercooler and four other after market items , worst to best there was a 34 deg C reduction in temps (air charge temps on Turbo charged cars are much hotter btw) and only resulted n a 7 BHP increase, however it wasnt the intercooler that gave the greatest reduction in temps that gave the best power increase, it was the one with the best flow.giving 9 BHP, 

 

Given that the power related to temperature is so low and that heat soak is only really an issue when stationary or very low speeds, i will just be looking to produce the least restrictive solution.

 

Dan, regarding the larger MAF housing, I too was considering an 83mm Dia, have you done any work to understand who in the UK could re-calibrate it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NothernDan]

3 hours ago, Twellsie said:

unfortunately this is pretty hard to to guess without simulation, each solution fully closed air box, partially closed air box and open cone all have their trade offs, 

The coldest air is always going to be that entering the car from the front, in a fully closed box you get a ram air effect, but you are potentially restricted by the inlet to the air box, dependent on routing and available space  then if you consider that that the air box needs to be balanced to its induction rate, too big this will create still air which will be susceptible to heat soak too small and it will be a restriction (hence the standard box has a flap that opens above a certain RPM) .pretty much impossible to get this right without simulation.

Partially closed boxes, address the issue of still air and restriction whilst in motion, but susceptible to heat soak when stationary.

Open cone allows for the biggest, least restrictive filter to be fitted, but again susceptible to heat soak  when stationary.

 

 

 

So from my own learnings, induction temps on NA cars are far less critical than that of Turbo charged cars, a few years ago i was involved in an article with Fast Ford magazine where we did back to back dyno runs with my Sierra Cosworth, comparing the standard 4x4 intercooler, to a genuine RS500 intercooler and four other after market items , worst to best there was a 34 deg C reduction in temps (air charge temps on Turbo charged cars are much hotter btw) and only resulted n a 7 BHP increase, however it wasnt the intercooler that gave the greatest reduction in temps that gave the best power increase, it was the one with the best flow.giving 9 BHP, 

 

Given that the power related to temperature is so low and that heat soak is only really an issue when stationary or very low speeds, i will just be looking to produce the least restrictive solution.

 

Dan, regarding the larger MAF housing, I too was considering an 83mm Dia, have you done any work to understand who in the UK could re-calibrate it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting stuff Rich, you are the right man for the job clearly!!

The only people I know who have done at work with remapping and recalibration are the guys at RR racing in the states. My plan was to create the ultimate box and intake system then use RR racing’s OBD mapping device to recalibrate to 83mm ID tubing which is the same as they use in their system, they will actually send you a custom map for the mods you have on your car. I reckon my design will deliver more colder air but their map should recal the MAF to take the extra flow...... I hope!

Lexus ECUs are renowned for being hard to crack so there are very few tuners and tunes out there for them.

[Twellsie]

Dan, my only concern with that is generally re-maps gain their power by optimizing for a specific fuel type, so from the factory  they are capable of running all fuel types, uk, Euro, Federal, BRIC etc, American fuel is actually pretty poor compared to what we use in the UK, my guess would be that they optimise to US fuel, so not ideal 

[NothernDan]

1 hour ago, Twellsie said:

Dan, my only concern with that is generally re-maps gain their power by optimizing for a specific fuel type, so from the factory  they are capable of running all fuel types, uk, Euro, Federal, BRIC etc, American fuel is actually pretty poor compared to what we use in the UK, my guess would be that they optimise to US fuel, so not ideal 

That make sense. @Peter P18 has lots of experience with RR and has most of their kit on his car. Pete, when they provide the custom maps do they cater for UK fuel specs?

 

[Northern isf]

I've got the rr racing tuned intake with map headers,exhaust, I already had ppe headers and exhaust fitted previous to the tuned intake and map so didn't expect to feel much of a difference but i was wrong the car is an animal now I'd definitely recommend the intake and tune from rr.

 

[Twellsie]

16 minutes ago, Northern isf said:

I've got the rr racing tuned intake with map headers,exhaust, I already had ppe headers and exhaust fitted previous to the tuned intake and map so didn't expect to feel much of a difference but i was wrong the car is an animal now I'd definitely recommend the intake and tune from rr.

 

I presume the RR remap takes into account UK fuel?

[NothernDan]

31 minutes ago, Twellsie said:

I presume the RR remap takes into account UK fuel?

I’d hope so given Pete’s heavy direct involvement with them. The man himself will be there on Saturday so we can all see in the flesh. 

Wayne, I’m really looking forward to seeing yours and how it sounds and feels. Doubt I’ll ever get mine supercharged like Pete’s so yours is about as close to final performance mod spec as I’m aiming with mine.

[Northern isf]

2 hours ago, Twellsie said:

I presume the RR remap takes into account UK fuel?

Yep designed for 98 octane or one grade lower the higher the Octane the more power you will get 

[Northern isf]

1 hour ago, NothernDan said:

I’d hope so given Pete’s heavy direct involvement with them. The man himself will be there on Saturday so we can all see in the flesh. 

Wayne, I’m really looking forward to seeing yours and how it sounds and feels. Doubt I’ll ever get mine supercharged like Pete’s so yours is about as close to final performance mod spec as I’m aiming with mine.

I'll let you have a blast, the superchargers obviously awesome but to be honest I'm more than happy with the power now I'm never sat there thinking "I wish I could go faster", the only thing I've got left to do is some lighter wheels it's finding the right look though as I quite like the standard wheels especially now it's lowered a tiny bit.

[NothernDan]

27 minutes ago, Northern isf said:

I'll let you have a blast, the superchargers obviously awesome but to be honest I'm more than happy with the power now I'm never say there thinking "I wish I could go faster" the only thing I've got left to do is some lighter wheels it's finding the right look though as I quite the standard wheels especially now it's lowered a tiny bit.

I had black team dynamics pro race 1.2 on my R32 and anthracite sets on both a 325 and 328 that I used to own, trouble is they only came in 18s, 20s or smaller and I’m 99% sure they don’t come in Lexus PCD and offset.

Due to their growing popularity team dynamics started making the pro race 1.3, the same wheel but in a 19. Same issue with PCD and offset though I think. These wheels make any car look like it’s just come off the nearest British Touring Cars circuit. Very light and very strong too.

 

Nearest i I found that that would fit our cars, are light, strong and still look good are these. OZ Racing Rally in 19. Tough to locate in the right widths and fitment though. Some hate em, I love em;

 

Either those or these but these are a lot more spendy (can be £600-£800 each) and they have been done to death on our cars. Volk TE37 SL in black;

 

[Northern isf]

Bit too much integrale style for me nice though! I'm looking into getting a custom made forged setup, contacted BC forged a few times but theres just too many to choose from it'll be next year too now as I'll be putting the car into salt hibernation soon  

[NothernDan]

1 minute ago, Northern isf said:

Bit too much integrale style for me nice though! I'm looking into getting a custom made forged setup, contacted BC forged a few times but theres just too many to choose from it'll be next year too now as I'll be putting the car into salt hibernation soon  

Love the Rotiform custom stuff too but their website doesn’t give enough detail on what the 20million various config options are!

[Northern isf]

1 minute ago, NothernDan said:

Love the Rotiform custom stuff too but their website doesn’t give enough detail on what the 20million various config options are!

Yea I thought that?I know a guy who is a supplier for them I bought a limo off him funnily enough, went to his workplace it turned out he's pretty big in the car world I kept InTouch with him I'm sure he'd be able to help.

[Peter P18]

6 hours ago, NothernDan said:

That make sense. @Peter P18 has lots of experience with RR and has most of their kit on his car. Pete, when they provide the custom maps do they cater for UK fuel specs?

 

Hey, yes, what you guys don’t realise is US fuel is the same as ours, just numbered differently. I think 93 here is 98 in the U.K. (I say here as I am typing in a lounge at Atlanta Airport in Georgia!).

Map and running on my car has always been spot on with every level of tune I’ve had with RR-Racing.

Cheers,

 

Pete

[NothernDan]

7 hours ago, Northern isf said:

Yea I thought that?I know a guy who is a supplier for them I bought a limo off him funnily enough, went to his workplace it turned out he's pretty big in the car world I kept InTouch with him I'm sure he'd be able to help.

Was it a bearded guy who runs the Players Special events? The bloke with the JPS M3 in this;

 

[NothernDan]

5 hours ago, Peter P18 said:

Hey, yes, what you guys don’t realise is US fuel is the same as ours, just numbered differently. I think 93 here is 98 in the U.K. (I say here as I am typing in a lounge at Atlanta Airport in Georgia!).

Map and running on my car has always been spot on with every level of tune I’ve had with RR-Racing.

Cheers,

 

Pete

Ta Pete...... you international jet setter you!! 😀

Kind of reassures me about my plans then.

Headers from a good source.

My own custom intake.

OBD map from RR.

Would definitely be interested in the UK made headers and some good advice on the intake from you @Twellsie

 

[Northern isf]

12 hours ago, NothernDan said:

Was it a bearded guy who runs the Players Special events? The bloke with the JPS M3 in this;

 

No mate that's not him

[NothernDan]

54 minutes ago, Northern isf said:

No mate that's not him

Multiple Rotiform contacts!

Can't be a bad thing 😂

[Twellsie]

making a bit of progress on this spoke with Roose Motorsport today who have confirmed they can manufacture the silicon elbows and can be produced to custom specification, different diameters, lengths, colours etc, if anyone is interested please let me know as this can have a pretty big impact on pricing

[Twellsie]

also if anyone has a inlet hose OEM or modified I could borrow for reference, that would be a huge help

[Peter P18]

Hi Rich,

I would be interested in getting some custom radiator hoses if that's something Roose would be willing to look at? If they can do a bung in the hose for my water temperature sensor probe as well, that would be brilliant!

Had to cut mine to fit a sensor in the middle and it's pretty rough/ugly to look at (does the job though I guess).

I think I have a carbon intake hose lying around if that's any use to you? Sold my OEM one to someone from the forum (I'll ask him this weekend if he has a spare to send you if that's what you are looking for?).

Good luck!

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Twellsie]

4 hours ago, Peter P18 said:

Hi Rich,

I would be interested in getting some custom radiator hoses if that's something Roose would be willing to look at? If they can do a bung in the hose for my water temperature sensor probe as well, that would be brilliant!

Had to cut mine to fit a sensor in the middle and it's pretty rough/ugly to look at (does the job though I guess).

I think I have a carbon intake hose lying around if that's any use to you? Sold my OEM one to someone from the forum (I'll ask him this weekend if he has a spare to send you if that's what you are looking for?).

Good luck!

Cheers,

 

Pete

Hi Pete

Almost certain they can do that, I think they will be relatively inexpensive so I would probably do it to.

Also the carbon intake im sure will be perfect, its just to gauge end points and given that its rigid is probably closer than a rubber/silicon hose

[Twellsie]

also @NothernDan I have some info regarding larger MAF hosings, spoke with the subject mater expert at work, for our size throttle body, recommends 73mm true size diameter, so standard MAF housing.

 

basic principles, drinking your Mc Donalds coke through a regular straw is easy, try drinking it through a toilet roll tube......