Looking at getting an rx300 or 400h. What to look out for?

[Mbay]

Hopefully going to be in the market for a change of car soon. 

I've had 2 Lexus' in the past and currently have e a Volvo S40.  Wanting space and reliability so have come to the Rx.

I don't have 450h money so a second hand 400h or 300 is my options. 

Can people tell me pros and cons of each and what to look out for on each when buying.?

[PCM]

To be honest - a good trawl through this RX section will be time well spent...

It's what I did.

Answered questions I had as well as ones I'd never thought of.

[Mbay]

Thanks

[m4rkw]

I can give you some thoughts on the Harrier I bought (basically looks like an RX-300 but has a 2.4L 4/cyl engine instead of the V6).

PROS:

- Theoretically cheaper to run than an RX-300, although depending on the mileage you do that might not be strictly true. No cambelt change and fewer toys to break. I've had mine 6 months and nothing's broken yet, hopefully I'll get a good run out of it with just maintenance items.
- Nice and comfy
- Nice interior
- Aftermarket stereo easy to fit
- Smooth and quiet, very nice to drive around at low speeds

CONS:

- Engine is quite underpowered for the size and weight of the vehicle
- Aftermarket cruise control was expensive to fit, and because of the underpowered engine it will often downshift if climbing a hill with cruise set at motorway speed
- The car is unknown on most car databases that tyre, parts and insurance companies use so doesn't appear on searches

 

I think if I had to make the decision again I'd be very tempted to go for a 400h or a 450. Hopefully the Harrier will have longer longevity and lower TCO, especially with no risk of a hybrid Battery failure, but who knows.

[Mbay]

Thanks m4rkw

[plastic orange]

We've had our RX 300 for just over 3 years now and my wife loves it. Main downside is fuel consumption - best of 28 on a long run and in winter in town 18. They are not very well protected underneath and get quite rusty, so check there. Gearchange can get confused at times and it's not the most powerful engine for a 3 litre, but it is pulling 2 tons. It has been pretty reliable with just the expected consumables which have been reasonably priced. It's a great car for transporting grand kids.

 

Pete

[Rutlandlex]

Hi Michael.  Don't forget the RX350 if your budget will stretch to one.  Which one is best depends on how you're going to use it.  For example if you're going to be doing mainly short journeys then you may as well get a petrol one because the hybrid system relies on sufficient forward motion to harvest energy to use for the electrical propulsion so if you're not doing that then the engine will be running constantly anyway defeating the object of having a hybrid.

I chose the 400h because the performance is virtually identical to the RX350 but it is more economical and I do the mileage easily to make the hybrid system work.  I will have done over 9k in 6 months in a couple of weeks time.  The 400h should be 6-8 mpg better off easily which adds up a lot over time.  In case you're thinking "Will I have to save up every week to replace the hybrid Battery pack?" then fear not because the chances of that are extremely slim and if you are one of the unlucky 1% then a replacement can be had for just £750.

Earlier this year I spoke to a rep from Lexus Derby who were exhibiting at a business show and I asked him how many Battery packs they had replaced and he said that they had yet to replace one that had failed of its own accord.  They had replaced 2 that had failed due to external forces - one car, an IS had been driven through a deep flood necessitating a new hybrid Battery pack as well as a new petrol engine!  The other had a small electrical fire and the fire brigade went and cut through the supply cable to the hybrid Battery pack.  I asked him how much a replacement was and he said "Take a guess."  I started off at £3k and he said "No, nowehere near."  He said that they were £650 for the smaller cars and £750 for the larger ones and I assume that VAT was to be added to those figures but I didn't query it.  Those prices are pretty well identical to the few specialist companies who refurbish them so maybe Lexus Derby at least have decided they would like to compete with the specialists.

What to look out for on all models:

• Corrosion particularly underneath as someone has already said.  There is some rust underneath mine but it is not excessive and will last for many more years
• Check for water leaks into the car particularly in the boot area.  Feel all of the trim in the boot for wetness as well as the carpets all over the car.  Pay particular attention to the carpets around the back seats if looking at the hybrid because the hybrid Battery pack sits underneath them
• Check the electrical items all work - they are very reliable but potentially costly to fix if they don't.  If the windows and sunroof don't quite operate as expected then this doesn't necessarily indicate a fault as there is a reset routine to follow after changing the 12V Battery and this may not have been done
• Check for service history and documentation to support it
• If very near or over 100k check that the cambelt has been changed along with the waterpump - this applies to 400h but can't remember if 300 & 350 are belt or chain driven so if belt this applies to them too
• On 300 & 350 check for smooth gear changes from 2-3 and 3-4 and vice versa.  Again very rare to have issues but can be expensive to fix if it does occur

Aside from that just the same checks that you would do on any car.  The RX is arguably the most reliable used car that you can buy particularly around the 10 year old mark so just make sure it's been looked after and enjoy 🙂 

 

[Mbay]

Rutlandlex many thanks. Very helpful. 

[Delphius1]

First off, if you set your sights on an RX300, check the road tax levels, you may be shocked, especially when they jump up around 2005. Not sure about the hybrid, I didn't look at the time.

The big thing to avoid on the RX300 and the RX400h is the air suspension. £600+ per corner for each suspension leg! Plus you'll probably have to replace the compressor because if you get an air leak it tends to eat itself. Then factor in labour on top. Spring suspension is more reliable. With the air suspension it's a case of when you replace parts, not if.

If you got for an RX300 then the best/most practical spec is the SE Navigator so you get the sat nav, dash screen and reversing camera.

Not sure on non-air suspension spec levels for the RX400h

Both will be a bit old now, so corrosion on underbody bits can be an issue. I've had a couple of corroded parts on my 2004 RX300 fail and needed replacing.

Both are big old barges so tend to be hard on brakes and suspension. Anti roll bar bushes and drop links as well as brakes and general suspension bushes. Check for knocks and thumps as you go over undulating roads and uneven tyre wear. Not hard to fix unless it's the front ARB "D" bushes - they're a bit buried, or the front bushes - you have to prop the engine up to remove/replace the front arms. It's worth checking the service history for recent work in that area, although not necessarily a deal-breaker as fixing isn't the end of the world.

Lots of electric toys on both to go wrong, so make sure everything works. Mirrors, sunroof, reversing camera, wipers, lights, heater, aircon, etc. should all work as Lexus designed.

Water ingress at the rear is a problem on both. Supposedly a split seam allows water in just in front of the rear hatch and requires re-welding to fix. Musty smells are to be avoided.  When looking for mine I saw one with mouldy rear seat belts wet rear seats and a mouldy smell in the cabin. So leaky ones are out there. I walked away from that one.

The power rear hatches can fail, not a cheap fix (nothing is with a Lexus!), but then again lifting the hatch manually is not a pain. But you do lose pose points..

Both have cam belts on the engine, so a service history that tells you when the cam belt was last done is an advantage.

It's preferrable to have even wear on the tyres as the gear train can get stressed by uneven wear. 4 identical evenly worn tyres with plenty of tread is the most desirable option and saves you having to change tyres after purchase. Sorry to sound like a broken record but...they are not cheap to replace.

But then again you don't buy a Lexus to enjoy bargain motoring.

 

[m4rkw]

Feeling better about my harrier now 😄

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Delphius1 said:

The big thing to avoid on the RX300 and the RX400h is the air suspension.

The 400h never had air suspension.

[Mbay]

What's considered short journeys? My current work trip is around 20 mile round trip give or take. No motorway driving. Would the hybrid be better or worse?

What about LPG as an option?

[ColinBarber]

Hybrid gives better mpg for everything other than high speed motorway driving where it is about equal with the RX300/350.

Both petrol and hybrid can be covered to lpg, although more common on the petrol models.

[Rutlandlex]

19 hours ago, Delphius1 said:

But then again you don't buy a Lexus to enjoy bargain motoring.

I did 🤣

19 hours ago, m4rkw said:

Feeling better about my harrier now 😄

I'm sure the Harrier has its own quirks or maybe some of the same ones as the Lexus.

16 hours ago, Mbay said:

What's considered short journeys? My current work trip is around 20 mile round trip give or take. No motorway driving. Would the hybrid be better or worse?

What about LPG as an option?

I would say it's more about the type of journeys that you do as much as distance.  If you're just driving at town speeds all the time then you won't get any real benefit from hybrid.  Will you be using the car at weekends too because if so then think about how you will be using it?

My journey to work is 23 miles which consists of: 2 miles of town driving, 10 miles of A road which can be anything between 50-70 mph, 10 miles of dual carriageway which varies between completely stationary to 80 mph but usually about 60 where it is moving, half a mile of crawling in bumper to bumper city traffic and finally half a mile of 50 mph single carriageway.  There are also many hills on the A road and the dual carriageway so the hybrid system gets a good workout and it runs on electric only when in heavy traffic.

You could get a petrol and convert it to LPG but that would involve a big outlay which you wouldn't get back for a long time if you're not doing many miles.  You will also have to have your spare wheel in the boot reducing practicality too and make sure that you get a valve saver fitted preferably a multi-point injection one.  I don't know if the valve seats on the Lexus are hardened or not but the general consensus seems to be that Japanese engines have softer ones and bitter personal experience with a Subaru means that I wouldn't have an LPG converted car without it.

[Herbie]

7 hours ago, Rutlandlex said:

You could get a petrol and convert it to LPG but that would involve a big outlay which you wouldn't get back for a long time if you're not doing many miles.  You will also have to have your spare wheel in the boot reducing practicality too

Not necessarily.

A proper conversion will cost about £1300 to £1400. Ours paid for itself in about 14 months and was great, well worth the outlay.

I had an 85L tank fitted where the spare wheel used to live on our old RX300 and just carried a can of Holts TyreWeld goo around for small punctures, letting the breakdown service take care of anything too big for the goo to handle.

LPG really is excellent and I'd have it done again in a heartbeat but, although it's technically possible to convert a hybrid, it may not be a wise move as you're just adding yet another layer of complexity to an already very complex car.

[m4rkw]

That sounds cheap for a conversion but I guess it depends where you get it done. Quality of conversions varies widely, not necessarily in correlation with price.

I’ve converted cars before and loved it, the only thing stopping me on the harrier is that the damn euro tunnel don’t let them on, even if the tanks empty and it’s disabled. I guess next year that might become less of a problem 😄

[Rutlandlex]

So for a £1400 conversion to be paid off in 14 months means a saving of £100 per month in fuel.  If you're only spending £150 per month on petrol then you can't possibly save that much so it would be more like a £50-£60 per month saving meaning that it will take over 2 years to pay for itself which in my opinion is too long.  Don't forget too that if you have a prang and your car gets written off then the insurance company won't cover the cost of your conversion, they'll just give you the value of a standard petrol car so if that happens just after you've driven the car out of the LPG converters then you've just lost £1400 or after 1 year £700.

I would also check the T & C's of your breakdown cover too because if your car came equipped with a spare wheel and you choose not to carry it around with you then some companies won't rescue you or will charge for doing so.  LPG conversions work out great for some people but not for others.

As for Euro Tunnel - stuff them and go on the ferry instead!

[m4rkw]

1 hour ago, Rutlandlex said:

As for Euro Tunnel - stuff them and go on the ferry instead!

I would but we go on holiday every year with our dog. If you go on the ferry the dog has to stay in the car and you're not allowed to stay with them. Not really very nice for the dog being stuck in that environment for 3-4 hours. Tunnel is much better, they really cater for dogs well with exercise areas and free doggy gifts, you're all in the car together and it only takes 20mins.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, m4rkw said:

I would but we go on holiday every year with our dog. If you go on the ferry the dog has to stay in the car and you're not allowed to stay with them. Not really very nice for the dog being stuck in that environment for 3-4 hours. Tunnel is much better, they really cater for dogs well with exercise areas and free doggy gifts, you're all in the car together and it only takes 20mins.

You must have access to the fast lane Mark, as it always takes me (and everyone else)35 minutes !!

[m4rkw]

Oh doesn't your 450h include time dilation as a driver convenience? Comes as standard on the Harrier :P

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Rutlandlex said:

So for a £1400 conversion to be paid off in 14 months means a saving of £100 per month in fuel.  If you're only spending £150 per month on petrol then you can't possibly save that much so it would be more like a £50-£60 per month saving meaning that it will take over 2 years to pay for itself which in my opinion is too long.  Don't forget too that if you have a prang and your car gets written off then the insurance company won't cover the cost of your conversion, they'll just give you the value of a standard petrol car so if that happens just after you've driven the car out of the LPG converters then you've just lost £1400 or after 1 year £700.

I would also check the T & C's of your breakdown cover too because if your car came equipped with a spare wheel and you choose not to carry it around with you then some companies won't rescue you or will charge for doing so.  LPG conversions work out great for some people but not for others.

As for Euro Tunnel - stuff them and go on the ferry instead!

OK, so maybe I got the figures a bit wrong. It is a while ago now and I haven't got the paperwork to refer back to because I included it with all other paperwork for the new owner when we traded up to our RX450h - perhaps it was closer to two years.

Either way, it paid for itself and started saving money in two years or less - certainly not a long time, especially if you're keeping the car for a long time like we tend to do.

I just like looking at the end figures where a journey that would have cost over £900 in petrol was actually about £437 because the LPG is cheaper. I seem to remember someone on here doing a comparison on fuelly.com and finding that a petrol only RX300 came in at 22.6p per mile, an RX400h (nearest equivalent as it's built on the same body etc) was 19.5p per mile and his LPG RX300 was running at 12.6p per mile.

As for your other points, my insurance company added £25 per year to the policy but I had it in writing from them that this was to cover the LPG equipment and the breakdown company had no problem at all with providing cover for a car without a spare wheel, even though there should have been one. LPG has been around for many, many years and although these may have been valid points at one time, that's no longer the case.

[Rutlandlex]

Not necessarily.  I had a breakdown policy before and I read the terms and it clearly stated that cover wouldn't be provided in the event of a flat tyre if the spare wheel was missing.  At the time I had a 1 Series that didn't have a spare wheel bay never mind a wheel so I queried it with them and they said that if the car was never supplied with a wheel by the manufacturer then they would still cover you.  I'm just saying that people need to check the terms with their own provider if they are thinking of leaving the spare at home.

As for the insurance, some companies don't charge anything extra for LPG converted cars and when they say that the LPG equipment is "covered" what they mean is that the components are covered individually so for example if your car was rear-ended and the tank got damaged then they would cover the cost of a replacement tank.  In the event of a total loss however they are not going to pay you for the value of a petrol car plus £1400 for the LPG conversion because they just pay you the market value of the whole car which is the same regardless of whether it is petrol or LPG.

So if your LPG system takes 2 years to pay for itself and the car gets written off after just one year then you've lost a lot of money which is why I prefer a quicker payback time.  It is a very small risk but nevertheless it does exist.  It is purely down to the individual as to whether they want to take that risk as well as considering other factors such as availability.  I wouldn't have an LPG car now because where I live availability is poor and the only station I drive past daily that sells it has recently bumped the price up by 10p per litre in one jump from 65.9p to 75.9p and that to my mind is too expensive.  I can get it at 65.9p but that would involve taking a longer route home which is inconvenient.

It is probably best to buy a car that has already been converted if possible to save on the outlay but there are no converted RX's for sale at the moment that I am aware of.

[m4rkw]

I think LPG systems need additional periodic servicing too don't they? That cost needs to be factored in too.

[Bluesman]

3 hours ago, m4rkw said:

I think LPG systems need additional periodic servicing too don't they? That cost needs to be factored in too.

Once a year, but its normally just a change of filters. Profess in South Wales have a lead which you can patch into their computer and any changes to the setup and send you filters if needed in the post.

[Mbay]

Thinking more of the 400h. Lower tax, slightly better mpg and still got the umph if needed. Would like the 350 but the tax is too high.