UK mades ISF headers, who's interested?

[YN57OCK]

7 hours ago, Mantas88 said:

Would be interested in this as well

 

15 hours ago, Rushingphil said:

I would be interested 👍

 

16 hours ago, RichGS11 said:

Yes please!

 

17 hours ago, Twellsie said:

 i am still interested.

Equal length would be my preference

Would buy ASAP assuming its a sensible price

 

Must haves for me  are they must be TIG welded and back purged, preferably 304 Stainless and i would like insight into the primary length length calculations taking into account VE, Cam duration, peak torque and displacement. 

Well that's five people already! Speedy responses. Thanks. Will DM you as soon as we have more info.

[RichGS11]

Thanks.

I have no preference in terms of length manifold. Whatever yields the best performance will do me.

[Matthew1995]

By anychance are you dealing with STG performance? Ive gone to them for a custom set, and they say they are working on a 'off the shelf' set 

[4969_LXS]

I'm interested, I've been looking at them umming and arring. I'd go equal length if I had the choice.

[Cactus]

How much whp and torque are we really looking at? Am i right that it will need an aftermarket intake and a full exhaust and a ecu to really make some decent double digit power gain.

[4969_LXS]

@Cactus Your best bet is to have a nosey on the US forums. I've attached the results RR-Racing achieved. Results vary depending on the Dyno and conditions on the day. But they tend to make around 400ftlb and 420ish hp at the wheels. Taking into account drivetrain loss, it puts the 2UR-GSE into the 100hp per litre zone. With it being NA, you'll never gain a lot in power, but the driving experience is definitely enhanced in terms of noise, throttle response, mid range torque etc. Most gains are made from the exhaust system alone circa 40-50hp peak, a tune will net about 10hp peak and intake systems pre inlet manifold seam to net about the same. @Northern isf has PPE manifolds, he's mentioned to me that it makes a difference. 

 

[Andy Mulcahy]

Definitely interested,  equal length is my preference.

Cheers,

Andy

[Andy Mulcahy]

Count me in. I would be ready to go as soon as they are ready. Equal length is preferable but good quality is paramount. A copy of an existing design would seem to be the only way of avoiding development costs and time?

[scott-o]

Are these likely to have sports cats in to remain legal or are these looking to be catless? Wouldnt be fussed between equal length or unequal, would rather unequal if it made packaging better and good enough to fit a sports cat in. Be nice to have an off the shelf direct replacement should the standard ones ever crack!

[YN57OCK]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:48 PM, Matthew1995 said:

By anychance are you dealing with STG performance? Ive gone to them for a custom set, and they say they are working on a 'off the shelf' set 

That's the one. Ps. Just had Shane do this with the exhaust! Stay tuned for an update in a couple more weeks.

[YN57OCK]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:37 AM, scott-o said:

Are these likely to have sports cats in to remain legal or are these looking to be catless? Wouldnt be fussed between equal length or unequal, would rather unequal if it made packaging better and good enough to fit a sports cat in. Be nice to have an off the shelf direct replacement should the standard ones ever crack!

High flow sports cars would be the way to go for me, although catless is also your choice! UEL is the current thinking, although going EL is not too much of a stretch either from what we have now. 

Will keep you all posted on progress! 

[YN57OCK]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:14 AM, Andy Mulcahy said:

Count me in. I would be ready to go as soon as they are ready. Equal length is preferable but good quality is paramount. A copy of an existing design would seem to be the only way of avoiding development costs and time?

 

4 minutes ago, YN57OCK said:

High flow sports cats would be the way to go for me, although catless is also your choice! UEL is the current thinking, although going EL is not too much of a stretch either from what we have now. 

Will keep you all posted on progress! 

 

[RichGS11]

59 minutes ago, YN57OCK said:

 

 

Great stuff. This is a must buy for me.

[scott-o]

11 hours ago, YN57OCK said:

High flow sports cars would be the way to go for me, although catless is also your choice! UEL is the current thinking, although going EL is not too much of a stretch either from what we have now. 

Will keep you all posted on progress! 

Excellent, Thank You. They are only a couple of hours away so will be watching with a keen eye for the future! It would be great to get an all in fitted cost too, i understand the job of swapping them isn't straight forward so if they've already done it on other cars it'd definitely be worth travelling down.

[Therickster]

I’m in depending on price etc.

[RichGS11]

Any news on this gents? I have the dreaded manifold tick on start up which I'm going to check out tomorrow. I'm hoping it's from the exhaust and not the manifolds! Otherwise it's PPE time. Thanks.

[YN57OCK]

On 3/23/2021 at 12:31 PM, Therickster said:

I’m in depending on price etc.

Hello gents I'm visiting STG on the 7th and will confirm timelines pricing and options after that meeting. Watch this space (.)

13 hours ago, RichGS11 said:

Any news on this gents? I have the dreaded manifold tick on start up which I'm going to check out tomorrow. I'm hoping it's from the exhaust and not the manifolds! Otherwise it's PPE time. Thanks.

Good luck with the investigation Rich and keep us posted. 

[ubersonic]

If there's an option with sports cats that would be a direct swap for OEM I would def buy a set.

[YN57OCK]

Hi all,

Quick update further to my visit and discussions this week at STG. Sorry for War and Peace in advance, its all relevant I hope. 

This process has already and will continue to involve lots of the right resources, work in development time and testing/refinement to get this to where we need it to be. Lots has been spent in order to get to where we will be as a group at the end of the month.

The bonus byproduct of this will be a UK company having new expertise in performance manifold production to our UK and wider European F community.

What are the next (high level) steps?

As we all want to make an informed decision with rolling road results;

1. Rolling road sessions booked;
   1. To establish a baseline on a stock 2008 ISF with the aftermarket STG exhaust & no other mods.
2. Test fit and check calculations for the new headers to confirm the precision engineered components for future scalable batch production which in turn lowers your purchase cost.
3. Remaining rolling road sessions;
   1. To look at the gains using the same 2008 ISF with the new manifolds/headers and primary sport cats.
   2. To look at the gains using the same 2008 ISF with the new manifolds/headers no cats.
   3. Final session to look at the gains using the same 2008 ISF with performance induction including larger MAF housing and RR Racing tune.
4. High level specifications of the production run released. 

Timelines

In terms of timelines the above should all be completed by early-mid May. At this point STG should be ready for the start of a limited production run.

I want to know more

• If you are looking to purchase one or more units within the production run of headers, this will require a deposit of £400 at STG. This is fully refundable - up until the point that the units go into production. The greater the number of units that can be purchased in this batch the lower the production costs can be.
• To manage expectations, it is likely that the per unit price will be around £2-2.5K per set (volume dependent) and this has been based on the interest in this current thread. Bear in mind that this will be a limited production run using someone that is experienced in this application. More orders during this run will ensure a lower production cost, and resulting lower cost per unit. If specialist finishes are required ie. ceramic coating, this will be additional.
• Later production runs are not planned but potentially possible based on the blueprint, research, development and testing via STG.
• Fitting is optional and if required needs to be discussed with STG directly. Due to the variety of requirements specific owners may have (new cats, new exhaust etc.), the headers can be shipped to you at cost. 

Is this right for you?

• The stock manifolds are known to crack and as our mileages and age of the vehicle increase - if not required now, you may want this in the future.
• Compared to what you could get elsewhere, equivalent headers (PPE as an example) would be £1,600-£1,800 (exchange rate dependent) plus shipping and import duties @£500.
• If you have recently purchased an ISF, this along with an exhaust and tune is one of the more desired HP gains (excluding Turbos or superchargers.) especially if you want a little more poke combined with a lovely oral experience.
• You have an IS-F and money burning a hole in your wallet.
• You are thinking of buying the entire production run to sell at a markup at a later date. 

Note to the moderators:

This is not an advert for services, simply an informed guide of what is new and now available based on information provided to me and my current experience.

 To be clear, I have not, nor will I make any money or commission on this (more fool me) 😪🤧

The satisfaction of knowing this will provide value to me and fellow passionate F owners (🤢) is enough.

Thanks for reading! 🙂

[RichGS11]

Thanks dude

[Twellsie]

i am quite surprised at the price if i am honest, i thought it would have been a lot closer to the price of PPE

[YN57OCK]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:46 PM, Twellsie said:

i am quite surprised at the price if i am honest, i thought it would have been a lot closer to the price of PPE

Hi Rich,

It is a fair point. I can also see his side of the coin though, the more interest he can confirm with a deposit for a higher unit run, the lower the overall cost and savings for the owners group. For example seven members initially declared an interest. What happens if STG only get one or two deposits? The same overheads would be needed but the production run would be much lower than compared to seven or 10 units which increases his cost per unit.

If we consider another perspective and say that he should produce 15 units at his cost because as at some point they will be required, he will need to find or rent space to stock and store them as well as the up front cost for the materials and his teams time to produce them, plus any this party costs until they have all been sold. This will again cost him more and take him away from what he does day to day. undertaking this for a niche vehicle in the UK, that not everyone will want to modify - very few would do this. Which is likely why this hasn't happened to date.

Additionally some of the components required need to be laser cut which is a specialist job. It would be great to get these cut with my set to keep your costs lower, but some members want to see gains and evidence before biting the bullet, and if revisions are required that results in more time and money spent. 

STG typically provide a longer and in some cases lifetime guarantee on their work which is compelling and very competitive. This is one of the reasons many of us own Lexus - quality, reassurance and peace of mind!

I'm sure if he mentioned they will be £1,500-2K a unit if he could secure a higher figure, it would be more attractive proposition but managing expectations here is key. Surely its better to say it will be more and then be surprised when it is less?

[4969_LXS]

Thinking of ways to help the cause. Would it be worth advertising it on some of the state side forums and Facebook group's once we have images of them and Dyno number's?

PPE has the Niche at the moment, due to SIKKY having previous quality issues and Novel being really expensive. 

If it got traction there using dyno verified performance numbers and pictures of STG's artwork and some sound clips. I'm sure STG will get more enquiries for them. Comparing 5000 odd North American ISF's Vs our 200 odd. The F's also seem to be gaining more of a following over there than here. 

Depending on how the manifolds are designed, could they be put on GSF's and RCF's, maybe even LC500's ? PPE designed their's to bolt up to the factory catback system. My Thinking is along the lines of some ISF's using GSF manifolds to solve the cracking issues using OEM parts. There might be scope for interchangeability ?

Could RR-Racing market it on there website seeing as they're already known in the F community, as they already market the PPE ones, could help with stateside sales etc ?

That's just some ideas I've had thinking out loud and brain storming about getting more potential orders to bring the cost down.

The ideas and speculations might not be applicable.

[Twellsie]

5 hours ago, YN57OCK said:

Hi Rich,

It is a fair point. I can also see his side of the coin though, the more interest he can confirm with a deposit for a higher unit run, the lower the overall cost and savings for the owners group. For example seven members initially declared an interest. What happens if STG only get one or two deposits? The same overheads would be needed but the production run would be much lower than compared to seven or 10 units which increases his cost per unit.

If we consider another perspective and say that he should produce 15 units at his cost because as at some point they will be required, he will need to find or rent space to stock and store them as well as the up front cost for the materials and his teams time to produce them, plus any this party costs until they have all been sold. This will again cost him more and take him away from what he does day to day. undertaking this for a niche vehicle in the UK, that not everyone will want to modify - very few would do this. Which is likely why this hasn't happened to date.

Additionally some of the components required need to be laser cut which is a specialist job. It would be great to get these cut with my set to keep your costs lower, but some members want to see gains and evidence before biting the bullet, and if revisions are required that results in more time and money spent. 

STG typically provide a longer and in some cases lifetime guarantee on their work which is compelling and very competitive. This is one of the reasons many of us own Lexus - quality, reassurance and peace of mind!

I'm sure if he mentioned they will be £1,500-2K a unit if he could secure a higher figure, it would be more attractive proposition but managing expectations here is key. Surely its better to say it will be more and then be surprised when it is less?

Hey Ian

 

I totally get it, in my day job i am a Senior Technical Buyer at JLR Classic, so I source stuff like this every day, for me first port of call is to request price breaks, ie given price for 5 off, 10 off etc, but at a potential of £2.5k price tag makes this an unviable project, compared to a proven and cheaper product!

 

I am not hating btw and more than happy to assist in any wat

 

Rich

[Twellsie]

3 hours ago, 4969_LXS said:

Thinking of ways to help the cause. Would it be worth advertising it on some of the state side forums and Facebook group's once we have images of them and Dyno number's?

PPE has the Niche at the moment, due to SIKKY having previous quality issues and Novel being really expensive. 

If it got traction there using dyno verified performance numbers and pictures of STG's artwork and some sound clips. I'm sure STG will get more enquiries for them. Comparing 5000 odd North American ISF's Vs our 200 odd. The F's also seem to be gaining more of a following over there than here. 

Depending on how the manifolds are designed, could they be put on GSF's and RCF's, maybe even LC500's ? PPE designed their's to bolt up to the factory catback system. My Thinking is along the lines of some ISF's using GSF manifolds to solve the cracking issues using OEM parts. There might be scope for interchangeability ?

Could RR-Racing market it on there website seeing as they're already known in the F community, as they already market the PPE ones, could help with stateside sales etc ?

That's just some ideas I've had thinking out loud and brain storming about getting more potential orders to bring the cost down.

The ideas and speculations might not be applicable.

only problem in this plan is the the steering shaft on our cars is on the other side, plus understanding the packaging space of each vehicle, LHD & RHD