Extra strong wheel bolts

Linas.P · September 11, 2018

Just wondering whenever anyone has aftermarket higher tensile bolts on IS-F? I know that standard bolts are already "high tensile", but reason for asking is that my IS250 keeps snapping them (must be too much power, need to check for IS220d badge). Now as far as I am aware all mk2 IS use same bolts Toyota part: 90942-02049.... and from what I managed to gather they are 10.9 (~940Mpa~13600psi) in terms of tensile strength.

I know saying it is already little bit stupid as the bolts should be strong enough (Landcrusers and Hilux'es uses same ones). Obviously, the issue is that monkeys keeps over-tightening them.... no matter how many times I ask, unless I am standing in front of them they will hammer the nuts to infinity (and they won't learn either until their nuts gets hammered as much). Does anyone uses torque wrench anymore?

One thing, they are not exactly cheap (yes I am a bit cheapskate... £5.14 per bolt) and paint in the... to replace, but what worries me the most is that I don't feel safe - just have a feeling they are all about to pop one day. Just don't want to see anything overtaking me, especially if that is my own wheel....

Reason for asking here is that I guess it is unlikely that anyone would have spent much time researching extra-high tensile aftermarket bolts in IS220d/IS250 forum. Seem like more relevant here with high torque/HP or track day application.

So my plan is to go and replace all 18 of them (2 already replaced, +1 I snapped today), because I don't know when another one will snap and don't want to find out in the corner. Now because 90942-02049 is standard identical part I am somehow not convinced that spending £100 on these bolts is the best solution. Maybe there are some better bolts (I don't know maybe... titanium or something) which are maybe slightly more expensive, but at least much stronger? Not sure if there are bolts strong enough to be "monkey with air gun proof" strong, but hey... worth asking?!

emjay82 · September 11, 2018

47 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Just wondering whenever anyone has aftermarket higher tensile bolts on IS-F? I know that standard bolts are already "high tensile", but reason for asking is that my IS250 keeps snapping them (must be too much power, need to check for IS220d badge). Now as far as I am aware all mk2 IS use same bolts Toyota part: 90942-02049.... and from what I managed to gather they are 10.9 (~940Mpa~13600psi) in terms of tensile strength.

I know saying it is already little bit stupid as the bolts should be strong enough (Landcrusers and Hilux'es uses same ones). Obviously, the issue is that monkeys keeps over-tightening them.... no matter how many times I ask, unless I am standing in front of them they will hammer the nuts to infinity (and they won't learn either until their nuts gets hammered as much). Does anyone uses torque wrench anymore?

One thing, they are not exactly cheap (yes I am a bit cheapskate... £5.14 per bolt) and paint in the... to replace, but what worries me the most is that I don't feel safe - just have a feeling they are all about to pop one day. Just don't want to see anything overtaking me, especially if that is my own wheel....

Reason for asking here is that I guess it is unlikely that anyone would have spent much time researching extra-high tensile aftermarket bolts in IS220d/IS250 forum. Seem like more relevant here with high torque/HP or track day application.

So my plan is to go and replace all 18 of them (2 already replaced, +1 I snapped today), because I don't know when another one will snap and don't want to find out in the corner. Now because 90942-02049 is standard identical part I am somehow not convinced that spending £100 on these bolts is the best solution. Maybe there are some better bolts (I don't know maybe... titanium or something) which are maybe slightly more expensive, but at least much stronger? Not sure if there are bolts strong enough to be "monkey with air gun proof" strong, but hey... worth asking?!

I snapped one on the ISF, subsequently ordered 6 for good measure. As you say, the tyre fitters over tighten them with their air guns. I also purchased a torque wrench and always fit the bolts to the correct tension.

emjay82 · September 11, 2018

It definitely is the power BTW, I'm not sure there is a metal in existence that can withstand the power of the IS250 let alone the IS220d's torque......

Linas.P · September 11, 2018

noooo... I checked it is definitely IS250 and not IS220d (which would explain it), hence I settle on issue being the power of air wrench in the hands of monkey... which as we know is greater then the power of all Lexus cars ever made put together... nobody trumps money with the air gun!

ColinBarber · September 11, 2018

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I know saying it is already little bit stupid as the bolts should be strong enough (Landcrusers and Hilux'es uses same ones). Obviously, the issue is that monkeys keeps over-tightening them.... no matter how many times I ask, unless I am standing in front of them they will hammer the nuts to infinity (and they won't learn either until their nuts gets hammered as much). Does anyone uses torque wrench anymore?

Their guns should have a torque limit on them.

You want the studs to be weak, more expensive to replace the nuts or alloys that would fail if the stud didn't.

Linas.P · September 11, 2018

Yes "should"... or they "should" have brains as well... but they don't..

Nuts are certainly cheaper to buy and easier to replace, then bolts/studs... I am replacing bolts myself, but normally it is £30 to replace one by the cheapest mechanic and probably like 1h rate at Lexus (£80).

other thing (generic rant)... ok let's say I cannot undo wheel with standard wheel wrench, I go to garbage - they bring 900mm breaker-bar (if air wrench fails) and bolt brakes.. never-mind. I guess just the matter of using breaker bar on wheels mean the bolts are due for replacement anyway.... and what if I have puncture in middle of nowhere - how I suppose to undo those nuts?

And finally back to the topic - are there anything I can "upgrade" with... or is it simple matter of buying 5 spares and just changing them when one snaps? Checked titanium ones £80/piece and has lower tensile strength (~880-920MPa vs. standard ones 940MPa+), there are some racing ones for Supra/IS mk1 (same part) with 1310MPa - that is literally as high as the spec goes (12.9)... are they worth it?! I guess if I could easily source them then why not ($35x5 ~or £107 for set), but as always nothing is easily sourced in UK..

September 11, 2018

It's pretty irrelevant. If the mechanic (undeserving of the title) over torques one he will over torque any. This stretches the stud, weakening it. Your plan seems to be - I'll but stronger ones so when they are made weaker it will still be ok.

Unlikely to work. Answer is don't over tighten. It's the only answer really. Even when idiots like that use torque wrenches you often find they don't understand how to use them. You see them clicking them on 3 or 4 times to 'make sure' again - over-tightening.

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Linas.P · September 11, 2018

No... my plan was to get the bolts so strong that nobody can over-tighten them ever... or at least maybe it would damage the nut before snapping the bolt, however it is clear that plan is not going to work.

emjay82 · September 11, 2018

76 ft-lbs, which doesn't feel as though it's tight enough when I was doing it but... The wheels still on and got to go with the manufacturers recommendations....

Linas.P · September 11, 2018

It is not question about me knowing the correct torque and using the torque wrench. When you have to undo wheels with breaker bar, that is long too late for that... it is kind of explained in the name - breaker-bar - breaks bolts!

JonP · September 12, 2018

Not had any snap, ever and at >90k gone through a fair few sets of tyres....

JonP · September 12, 2018

Where do you buy your tyres from????

tomRCFcarbon · September 12, 2018

Have you ever hit anything? Particularly thinking Kerbs or anything that’s pushed the tracking out or necessitated the change of any element of suspension? Reason being if you are running a bit too much camber or toe-in, it can put weird stress through the bolts. Worth checking. Especially if you suspect the mechanics that have been working on your car are monkeys as they won’t have checked geometry and alignment properly. Also worth visibly checking all the suspension elements as anything that’s a bit bent will create the issue. Then be adjusted out by the monkeys, but leave weight distribution and the dynamic geometry (geometry when doing anything other than sitting in the garage - i.e. real world geometry) all out of true.

Linas.P · September 12, 2018

I cannot account for 100k miles before my ownership, but since I owned the car alignment has been done every year, particularly when new tyres were fitted... So alignment is certainly fine. Tyre wear is even as well.. last set lased nearly 40k miles and I did alignment 3 times on that particular set - once all 4 wheels when fitting, second time after 15k miles after fitting new brake disks, then third time only fronts after fitting winter tyres/re-fitting after winter. @JonP - normally online and get local ATS to fit them, they are actually quite good - over-tightens least of all places I have used and as well the only place which manages to do alignment properly and in one time.

There were 3 occasions when bolts were over-tightened significantly - once when I have refurbished my old wheels, the garage refurbishing them had hammered nuts so hard they could not undo them without meter long barker bar. The reason I know is because they fitted 225's on one side and 245's on the other... interesting approach to wheel "staggering", so I asked to swap tyres and wheels and it was amazing to watch (just to note they actually did amazing job refurbishing the wheels, so maybe just not good with the spanners! 😄 ). Second, I have re-fitted summer tyres, because those were used tyres I already had I have to resort to dodgy place to put them on - nobody fits used tyres. I made mistake not watching the guy closely, after that I had to weld-out locking nuts as no conventional method could undo them. Finally, now - it was insurance shop with refurbished all wheels for me and fitted all tyres, they snaped one bolt fitting them and glued it with sealant... tells you part of the story of how good they are...

Anyway.. my plan now is go back to insurance and simply state that nuts were over-tightened and as such bolts got damaged and ask them to replace bolts at the shops expense.

As for "non-significantly" over-tightening.... that is pretty much every single time... including Lexus Woodford during the service. Any time I tried undoing wheels myself with standard short Lexus wheel wrench - it is nearly impossible. Every bolt takes 5 minutes of hard labour to undo.. and in theory that is already wrong, because one should be able to undo bolts with included wrench.

tomRCFcarbon · September 12, 2018

5 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

it was insurance shop with refurbished all wheels for me

So did you hit something? the issue with alignment is - what are you aligning with? If the geometry beyond what they are checking is out (ie suspension) then you might keep having the same issue...reality is you will probably never find out and it will be one of the curiosity's of your particular car. After 50/60,000 miles every car becomes a unique mix of good repairs, poor repairs, fixes, bodges, improvements and use...in your case your car eats wheel bolts, could be worse.

Edited September 12, 2018 by tomRCFcarbon
hit enter before I had finished typing!

Linas.P · September 12, 2018

Except of very recently... no... doesn't seems so at least. 4 weeks ago lady has tried to knock me of the road... and knocked front alignment out, still dealing with it at the moment. But all 3 snapped bolts were on the rear, 2 on one side and 1 other other.

What you saying.. yes that makes sense - over such long period of time there could be more serious issues, but still not very confidence inspiring when every time I change wheels I snap bolt without even trying.