If you cannot choose lexus what brand would you go for?

[st4]

That’s a good point ! On other forums for other car makes most of the discussions are about things going wrong . For 4 years I had my Jag XF and I was glued to the forum reading about problems & potential problems, also learnt a lot about things and managed  to get things replaced even after warranty  because other s had highlighted the issues already . 

I joined looking for an XF and it was like the Merc forums. Pages and pages of problems. It’s different here bar the usual chat of expensive dealers


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[Guest]

They have to be expensive due to lack of things to do 

[talaipwros]

BMW.

got one, waiting for another one next month. Best value overall outside Lexus

[Hadrian]

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Don't think that at all. Premium/Luxury never mean reliable - Lexus and some old Mercs are more exception then a rule. Talking very specifically about Jaguar and Land Rover - they were considered as premium for many years now, probably 50 and 30 respectively and both were always notoriously unreliable.

Are Land Rovers any more reliable these days ?,  they should be for what they cost.

I remember reading "Honest John's"  column going back a few years. Someone asked which 4x4 they should buy. his reply was, that if you

enjoy riding around in the dealer's courtesy car, get a Land Rover. Otherwise buy a Nissan Xtrail.

[Vlady]

This is what I just read in car magazine about Merc C-class and this was said be magazine reviewer - the car is superbly built, reliable and has cast iron image and Audi you can take excellent build quality, practicality and efficient engines. They always praise MB relaibility and Audi interior quality.

It looks like these car reviews do not know anything about issues everyone mentions online!

[st4]

This is what I just read in car magazine about Merc C-class and this was said be magazine reviewer - the car is superbly built, reliable and has cast iron image and Audi you can take excellent build quality, practicality and efficient engines. They always praise MB relaibility and Audi interior quality.
It looks like these car reviews do not know anything about issues everyone mentions online!

They only run a new car.

Give them an 80k miles 2 owner Mercedes E class and see how they’ll get on ;)


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[rich1068]

Agreed. But we have to keep in mind that if you're going to complain it's likely you'll find yourself on a forum. But every owner isn't a member of a forum. Take these things with a pinch of salt. There's also the forum phenomena of "they all do that". An issue that may have affected a number of members (who joined because of the issue) becomes lore. A particular engine will do this at some point, a particular model will do that at some point. No they won't. Some might if you're unlucky.

I can really only speak from experience when I say that my 16 year old IS and 12 year old RX are "better" built than all of my previous new and used cars.

[inflames]

I have recently changed back to a BMW, Mercedes, Volvo and VW where also on my radar.  I am sure i will find my way back to Lexus in the near future.

[Vlady]

3 hours ago, st4 said:

 

They only run a new car.

Give them an 80k miles 2 owner Mercedes E class and see how they’ll get on 😉


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I agree, they have it for a couple of days and know nothing about running costs!

[DanD]

For me, 1) Volvo, 2) Tesla

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[Vlady]

If anyone is interested, just found online.

Britain's most reliable cars: 

Most reliable (executive class): Volvo V60 (2010-2018), rubber ups: Vauxhall Insignia and Alfa Romeo Julia!

Least reliable: Mercedes C-Class

LEAST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ C-CLASS (2014-PRESENT)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Engine electrics 7%, sat-nav 6%, bodywork 5%, non-engine electrics 5%, Battery 4%, engine 4%, interior trim 4%, brakes 3%, gearbox / clutch 3%, exterior lights 2%, steering 2%, air-con 1%, exhaust 1%, fuel system 1%, suspension 1%, 30% of cars had a fault – overall score 83.1% reliability.

OTHER POOR PERFORMERS: Jaguar XE diesel and petrol (2015 - present), 82.7% reliability; Audi A4 saloon and estate diesel (2015 - present), 91.9% reliability

A prestige brand isn’t always an indicator of superior quality, as the data for the Mercedes C-Class shows - nearly a third of cars had a problem. Most cars were back on the road within a week and only a few owners had to pay for repairs, though.

Jaguar XE owners also spend a lot of time in dealerships because 42% of cars had a fault. While there were problems in every area, the most common were brakes and interior trim (both 11%), and electrics (10%). Most cars remained driveable and were fixed in less than a day, but a few owners had to pay £500-£750.

MOST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ E-CLASS (2009-2016)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Non-engine electrics 10%, Battery 8%, engine electrics 4%, suspension 4%, bodywork 2%, brakes 2%, exhaust 2%, sat-nav 2%, wheels 2% – 31% of cars had a fault – overall score 88.7% reliability.

RUNNERS-UP: Jaguar XF saloon and estate diesel and petrol (2007 - 2015), 91.6% reliability; BMW 5 Series saloon and estate, diesel and petrol (2010 - 2017), 91.6% reliability

It seems the previous Mercedes E-Class is less problematic than the new one. Although more than 30% of cars had a fault, the most commonly affected areas were the Battery, and non-engine electrics. Most cars could still be driven and only a few owners faced bills of up to £750.

It’s the same story with the Jaguar XF: the older car is significantly more resilient than its successor. Although 35% of cars had an issue, the most common affected the brakes (10%), while there were also problems with bodywork, interior trim, air-con and sat-nav. Three quarters of cars were driveable and most were fixed under warranty.

BMW’s previous 5 Series also marginally outperforms the latest model. Some 31% of owners reported a fault, most frequently on the exhaust and engine (both 6%), followed by engine electrics (4%).

[Bluesman]

Any model in the Mercedes W126 SE saloon car which I believe was one of the last Mercedes cars built in Germany. Had one years ago and it was the only car I know of that came close to the Lexus LS400. I know that is what the LS is based on.

[Dealkent]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:32 PM, Hadrian said:

Are Land Rovers any more reliable these days ?,  they should be for what they cost.

I remember reading "Honest John's"  column going back a few years. Someone asked which 4x4 they should buy. his reply was, that if you

enjoy riding around in the dealer's courtesy car, get a Land Rover. Otherwise buy a Nissan Xtrail.

When you look online about Land Rover Range Rover you  will see nothing but bad reviews , bad stories etc , BUT when you actually ask the owners , it’s a different story . I currently have 3 different friends with newish Range Rovers.  None of them have had problems , which Is very  Different to what you read on here ! 

[Dealkent]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:38 PM, Vlady said:

If anyone is interested, just found online.

Britain's most reliable cars: 

Most reliable (executive class): Volvo V60 (2010-2018), rubber ups: Vauxhall Insignia and Alfa Romeo Julia!

Least reliable: Mercedes C-Class

LEAST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ C-CLASS (2014-PRESENT)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Engine electrics 7%, sat-nav 6%, bodywork 5%, non-engine electrics 5%, battery 4%, engine 4%, interior trim 4%, brakes 3%, gearbox / clutch 3%, exterior lights 2%, steering 2%, air-con 1%, exhaust 1%, fuel system 1%, suspension 1%, 30% of cars had a fault – overall score 83.1% reliability.

OTHER POOR PERFORMERS: Jaguar XE diesel and petrol (2015 - present), 82.7% reliability; Audi A4 saloon and estate diesel (2015 - present), 91.9% reliability

A prestige brand isn’t always an indicator of superior quality, as the data for the Mercedes C-Class shows - nearly a third of cars had a problem. Most cars were back on the road within a week and only a few owners had to pay for repairs, though.

Jaguar XE owners also spend a lot of time in dealerships because 42% of cars had a fault. While there were problems in every area, the most common were brakes and interior trim (both 11%), and electrics (10%). Most cars remained driveable and were fixed in less than a day, but a few owners had to pay £500-£750.

MOST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ E-CLASS (2009-2016)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Non-engine electrics 10%, battery 8%, engine electrics 4%, suspension 4%, bodywork 2%, brakes 2%, exhaust 2%, sat-nav 2%, wheels 2% – 31% of cars had a fault – overall score 88.7% reliability.

RUNNERS-UP: Jaguar XF saloon and estate diesel and petrol (2007 - 2015), 91.6% reliability; BMW 5 Series saloon and estate, diesel and petrol (2010 - 2017), 91.6% reliability

It seems the previous Mercedes E-Class is less problematic than the new one. Although more than 30% of cars had a fault, the most commonly affected areas were the battery, and non-engine electrics. Most cars could still be driven and only a few owners faced bills of up to £750.

It’s the same story with the Jaguar XF: the older car is significantly more resilient than its successor. Although 35% of cars had an issue, the most common affected the brakes (10%), while there were also problems with bodywork, interior trim, air-con and sat-nav. Three quarters of cars were driveable and most were fixed under warranty.

BMW’s previous 5 Series also marginally outperforms the latest model. Some 31% of owners reported a fault, most frequently on the exhaust and engine (both 6%), followed by engine electrics (4%).

Most reliable, Alfa Romeo !,??? really .  And Vauxhall Insignia  ? No way , I know some one who works with Minimcabs ,  they say the Insignia is terrible , always off the road in the garage . 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Dealkent said:

When you look online about Land Rover Range Rover you  will see nothing but bad reviews , bad stories etc , BUT when you actually ask the owners , it’s a different story . I currently have 3 different friends with newish Range Rovers.  None of them have had problems , which Is very  Different to what you read on here ! 

I have colleague who got 2017 one... If you ask him ... he is very happy with the car... if you ask him again... he says it is very reliable... he said it has never broken down on him...  if you insist and ask him 5th time... then he actually says he had it left with dealers for 4 times already and they have almost replaced entire car - the dash with sat nav, front seats, front suspension... but he is still very happy with it and keeps saying how good are the dealer, because he had not paid a penny for all the work..............

Well obviously he didn't... he only covered 6000 miles in 16 months since he bought it. His definition of "never broken down" is ... "he never had to stop and wait for recovery", so he had faulty front air suspension, but it was only light on the dash.. front seats memory stopped working and would reset to the foremost forward position every time, sat nav stopped working and the leather sticking on the dash peeled away.... true - recover was unnecessary in all occasions, but I would not call it "reliable"... It is new car and that is why you have warranty... so it is sometimes a matter of asking right people right questions.. 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Dealkent said:

When you look online about Land Rover Range Rover you  will see nothing but bad reviews , bad stories etc , BUT when you actually ask the owners , it’s a different story . I currently have 3 different friends with newish Range Rovers.  None of them have had problems , which Is very  Different to what you read on here ! 

A colleague of mine has a neighbour with a 2017 Range Rover Sport. It has been taken away on a low loader on more than one occasion. 

[st4]

I have colleague who got 2017 one... If you ask him ... he is very happy with the car... if you ask him again... he says it is very reliable... he said it has never broken down on him...  if you insist and ask him 5th time... then he actually says he had it left with dealers for 4 times already and they have almost replaced entire car - the dash with sat nav, front seats, front suspension... but he is still very happy with it and keeps saying how good are the dealer, because he had not paid a penny for all the work..............
Well obviously he didn't... he only covered 6000 miles in 16 months since he bought it. His definition of "never broken down" is ... "he never had to stop and wait for recovery", so he had faulty front air suspension, but it was only light on the dash.. front seats memory stopped working and would reset to the foremost forward position every time, sat nav stopped working and the leather sticking on the dash peeled away.... true - recover was unnecessary in all occasions, but I would not call it "reliable"... It is new car and that is why you have warranty... so it is sometimes a matter of asking right people right questions.. 

That sounds like a piece of junk


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[KUYTD]

On 8/30/2018 at 2:58 PM, javadude said:

Tesla 🙂

Ditto for sure. 

[Vlady]

14 hours ago, Dealkent said:

Most reliable, Alfa Romeo !,??? really .  And Vauxhall Insignia  ? No way , I know some one who works with Minimcabs ,  they say the Insignia is terrible , always off the road in the garage . 

I agree, it did look dodgy when I saw it but yesterday I looked on whatcar.com and they have similar list and Insignia on it as well as one of the most reliable cars in class, what I was surprised of - BMW X5 is 2nd most reliable car in SUV class (RAV4 is 1st) and how badly all Nissans performed!

JLR are rubbish too, good looking cars though!

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Vlady said:

and how badly all Nissans performed!

their Renault partnership has done them no favours.

[Dealkent]

14 hours ago, Vlady said:

I agree, it did look dodgy when I saw it but yesterday I looked on whatcar.com and they have similar list and Insignia on it as well as one of the most reliable cars in class, what I was surprised of - BMW X5 is 2nd most reliable car in SUV class (RAV4 is 1st) and how badly all Nissans performed!

JLR are rubbish too, good looking cars though!

We have a 22 year old British made Nissan Micra as a runaround, it’s the most reliable car I’ve ever  had 

[LexusIS300h]

I would go back to Toyota, absolutely reliable, honest set of wheels. Older designs weren’t the best, very middle of the road, but the newer versions are interesting. Perhaps taking a leaf out of Lexus design book? 

The bottom line for me is reliability and Toyota does that in spades.

[Vlady]

1 hour ago, LexusIS300h said:

I would go back to Toyota, absolutely reliable, honest set of wheels. Older designs weren’t the best, very middle of the road, but the newer versions are interesting. Perhaps taking a leaf out of Lexus design book? 

The bottom line for me is reliability and Toyota does that in spades.

I  have seen photos of new Corolla - looks very interesting! Would be good to see it in flesh!

 

[Vlady]

Friend of mine picked on Saturday a 68-plate E-class 220cdi in AMG form, the car looks lovey in white and inside it is better then a C-class - the e-class she has doesn't have much glass on the dashboard.

I was taken for a little drive and was not impressed, it is not comfy and neither it is quite, you can still hear diesel rumble!

Anyway, if somebody offered me a new e-class for the money she is paying (she had a good deal she said) I would choose my 6 years old Lexus every time!

I was afraid at first I might like it but the way it drives nope, thank you - it didn't feel like Mercedes at all! May be from driving seat I would enjoy it more but from passenger seat didn't like it.

Great quality central screen though, so clear and informative, I wish my Lexus had that!

[First_Lexus]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:38 PM, Vlady said:

If anyone is interested, just found online.

Britain's most reliable cars: 

Most reliable (executive class): Volvo V60 (2010-2018), rubber ups: Vauxhall Insignia and Alfa Romeo Julia!

Least reliable: Mercedes C-Class

LEAST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ C-CLASS (2014-PRESENT)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Engine electrics 7%, sat-nav 6%, bodywork 5%, non-engine electrics 5%, battery 4%, engine 4%, interior trim 4%, brakes 3%, gearbox / clutch 3%, exterior lights 2%, steering 2%, air-con 1%, exhaust 1%, fuel system 1%, suspension 1%, 30% of cars had a fault – overall score 83.1% reliability.

OTHER POOR PERFORMERS: Jaguar XE diesel and petrol (2015 - present), 82.7% reliability; Audi A4 saloon and estate diesel (2015 - present), 91.9% reliability

A prestige brand isn’t always an indicator of superior quality, as the data for the Mercedes C-Class shows - nearly a third of cars had a problem. Most cars were back on the road within a week and only a few owners had to pay for repairs, though.

Jaguar XE owners also spend a lot of time in dealerships because 42% of cars had a fault. While there were problems in every area, the most common were brakes and interior trim (both 11%), and electrics (10%). Most cars remained driveable and were fixed in less than a day, but a few owners had to pay £500-£750.

MOST RELIABLE: MERCEDES-BENZ E-CLASS (2009-2016)

WHAT WENT WRONG? Non-engine electrics 10%, battery 8%, engine electrics 4%, suspension 4%, bodywork 2%, brakes 2%, exhaust 2%, sat-nav 2%, wheels 2% – 31% of cars had a fault – overall score 88.7% reliability.

RUNNERS-UP: Jaguar XF saloon and estate diesel and petrol (2007 - 2015), 91.6% reliability; BMW 5 Series saloon and estate, diesel and petrol (2010 - 2017), 91.6% reliability

It seems the previous Mercedes E-Class is less problematic than the new one. Although more than 30% of cars had a fault, the most commonly affected areas were the battery, and non-engine electrics. Most cars could still be driven and only a few owners faced bills of up to £750.

It’s the same story with the Jaguar XF: the older car is significantly more resilient than its successor. Although 35% of cars had an issue, the most common affected the brakes (10%), while there were also problems with bodywork, interior trim, air-con and sat-nav. Three quarters of cars were driveable and most were fixed under warranty.

BMW’s previous 5 Series also marginally outperforms the latest model. Some 31% of owners reported a fault, most frequently on the exhaust and engine (both 6%), followed by engine electrics (4%).

The problem with 'reliability' surveys like that found in What Car? this month, is that they are often based on owner responses rather than tangible data. It seems obvious, but a few years ago I listened to a chap on the radio discussing the JD Power survey - he was some sort of motor industry expert.

He stressed that any survey based on owner feedback has a number of significant flaws. First, the expectation of the owner. A small fault, not worthy of mention by one respondant, could be listed by others. If somebody had bought a cheap brand, their expectation may also be different to somebody buying a 'premium' brand.

Second, whether the respondent chose their vehicle. Those who are given a company car, especially those with little or no choice, are (he said) likely to be more critical of that car if they really wanted something else.

Lastly, what the chap called 'justification.' If a respondent has spent a considerable amount of money on a car then they sometimes ignore faults as they are justifying their purchase - to themselves and others. Such an owner wouldn't want to see their car or car brand perform badly in a survey as they feel it reflects badly on their choice.

It is a complex area, but since hearing the discussion I've only been interested in surveys that use tangible data - usually from warranty companies. Anything requiring owner feedback - which could or should be called opinion or perception instead - is interesting but not necessarily reliable. As Blackadder would say, they're a bit like a broken pencil...pointless.