If you cannot choose lexus what brand would you go for?

[st4]

What kind of trouble did you have with Mercedes ? 

 

Across 4 I’ve owned and one my father had with 200k plus miles the following across the 5

 

Rust on 2 (both under 6yo) - bearing in mind one of them was £75k new

Wheel bearing failure on my E claaa

Collapsed suspension springs on my E class

Rear air suspension failure - not great on a £75k car with 60k on the clock

3 had the 7 speed gearbox. Two had gearbox issues, the S class probably needs a new one as it’s bumping the 5 to 4 change badly

Various sensor problems in all but 2

Rattling cam chain on my c class

Corroded pipes for the PAS in my c class

Abs and esp faults on the S class

Fuel leaks in my last E class

Injector failure in my E class causing misfires and EML

Steering rack leak on my E class - nothing topping up the reservoir didn’t leak but the steering would randomly squeak - actually the S class does this too.

All of them have had dash rattles, poor trim etc

Smelly aircon in the S and my last E class

Manifold and swirl flap motor failure on my e class

Flaking paint on my e class

Juddering in my E220 - likely a torque converter was on its way out

 

Don’t believe the forums and myths where people say these are reliable dependable cars. They’re really bad

 

 

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[st4]

No idea what modern BMW’s are like, but my E36 325 was totally reliable over the 5 years and 110k miles I covered in it. Likewise, no idea on the Mercedes marquee as a whole, but my CLS63 has been great in the 16 months I’ve had it. The odd part has been astonishly cheap in comparison to Lexus prices. So Mercedes or BMW for me.


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Everyone I know who’s had one bar one has had no trouble with their BMW. A pal with a 320i has a timing chain let go but I had 2, numerous others have had BMW’s and they’ve not rusted or had the hassle I’ve had with Mercedes


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[Hadrian]

2 hours ago, Dealkent said:

Why so against Ford  ?  Isn’t Mazda basically the same as Ford ? 

My first Ford was a MKIII Cortina....That was an absolute pile of Poo.

The one I use for running around locally now, is the BMax Powershift.... The problems with the Powershift are well documented.

Apart from that, it's had a number of niggling faults. When it's working well it's a decent little run around. Fords are not generally

known for their reliability, but the dealer is only a couple of hundred yards from home, so not too far to go to bang on the counter.

[Vlady]

9 hours ago, st4 said:

 

Everyone I know who’s had one bar one has had no trouble with their BMW. A pal with a 320i has a timing chain let go but I had 2, numerous others have had BMW’s and they’ve not rusted or had the hassle I’ve had with Mercedes


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I am on BMW forum (still) and they are not really reliable, not bad but not Japanese cars either, I have had three BMW (e46, e39 and e60) in a last 11 years, last one an e60 I had for 3.5 years and it was the most reliable car I have had but rust started on rear arches which is not common for an e60 so I had to get rid of it, I think it was badly repaired before my ownership.

[Vlady]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:56 AM, Vlady said:

Range Rover or a Jag, Mercedes, Volvo - never had these, would be nice to try, not a big fun if the Volvo interiors though.

I would stick to that list if the cars are brand new, if USED I would consider Mazda, Volvo.

[Dealkent]

11 hours ago, st4 said:

 

Across 4 I’ve owned and one my father had with 200k plus miles the following across the 5

 

Rust on 2 (both under 6yo) - bearing in mind one of them was £75k new

Wheel bearing failure on my E claaa

Collapsed suspension springs on my E class

Rear air suspension failure - not great on a £75k car with 60k on the clock

3 had the 7 speed gearbox. Two had gearbox issues, the S class probably needs a new one as it’s bumping the 5 to 4 change badly

Various sensor problems in all but 2

Rattling cam chain on my c class

Corroded pipes for the PAS in my c class

Abs and esp faults on the S class

Fuel leaks in my last E class

Injector failure in my E class causing misfires and EML

Steering rack leak on my E class - nothing topping up the reservoir didn’t leak but the steering would randomly squeak - actually the S class does this too.

All of them have had dash rattles, poor trim etc

Smelly aircon in the S and my last E class

Manifold and swirl flap motor failure on my e class

Flaking paint on my e class

Juddering in my E220 - likely a torque converter was on its way out

 

Don’t believe the forums and myths where people say these are reliable dependable cars. They’re really bad

 

 

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Omg , a catalogue of problems , why did you keep buying Mercedes? I would never buy one now after reading your issues ! 

[Dealkent]

1 hour ago, Vlady said:

I am on BMW forum (still) and they are not really reliable, not bad but not Japanese cars either, I have had three BMW (e46, e39 and e60) in a last 11 years, last one an e60 I had for 3.5 years and it was the most reliable car I have had but rust started on rear arches which is not common for an e60 so I had to get rid of it, I think it was badly repaired before my ownership.

I had 3 BMWs in a row way back in the 90s , the last one was rubbish , so it put me off them for good . Friend just  had a BMW 3 series on loan for 6 weeks , 4 years old , drinks the oil despite being petrol ? And must say it’s very dull all round . All the jap cars I’ve had over the years Toyota Supra , Mitsubishi, Nissan and now Lexus have be3n excellent.

[st4]

Omg , a catalogue of problems , why did you keep buying Mercedes? I would never buy one now after reading your issues ! 

Because I was stupid enough to believe that I had a bad one and the next one would be better.

Seemingly the internet is full of 300k milers and internet mechanics who think they’re the bees knees but ***** knows how unless you throw tens of thousands at one to keep it going.

All I know out of 4 I had two gave pretty much constant trouble and never could make it between services without a trip to the garage to fix a problem.

The one that was the best had a constant timing chain rattle and my first had a juddering gearbox.

My fathers S class at 6yo gives persistent trouble and has gearbox issues at 65k, rust and all sorts of air suspension issues.

I’ve experienced enough to know now never again




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[Vlady]

I don't think any one mentioned Infinity? Thoughts? Reviews are not good at all!

[st4]

I don't think any one mentioned Infinity? Thoughts? Reviews are not good at all!

Nissan which means Renault or Mercedes.

Ruuuuun!!!



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[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Vlady said:

I don't think any one mentioned Infinity? Thoughts? Reviews are not good at all!

I am not sure... for me interior look very ugly in Infinity. The exterior is questionable already, bun interior is properly ugly... 

MB were very unreliable from late 90's ~1998-9 and ~2006-2008. The new Mercs are just simply dull, similar to BMW and Audi (Audi dullest of them all)... not really that unreliable but you must spend fortune on options or it will be very basic. If looking for used - will never find it with right options.. 

[st4]

I am not sure... for me interior look very ugly in Infinity. The exterior is questionable already, bun interior is properly ugly...  MB were very unreliable from late 90's ~1998-9 and ~2006-2008. The new Mercs are just simply dull, similar to BMW and Audi (Audi dullest of them all)... not really that unreliable but you must spend fortune on options or it will be very basic. If looking for used - will never find it with right options..  

 

 I can assure you that a 2012 Mercedes S class is rusting and having a lot of mechanical and electrical issues.

 

My 2010 E class had plenty go wrong with it too.

 

The reason people say the newer ones are better is they’ve not quite got to the age where they fall apart (usually in the 5th year onwards)

 

I recall an amusing comment on a Merc forum, avoid the 2005 and before E classes, they rust but the newer ones are fine. This was like in 2011 when an 08 reg was pretty new. I always look at wheel arches as I go past cars, plenty of 08 reg and 09 reg E classes have scabby rear arches yet pretty much any other make wont rust until it’s well over 10y. The owners actually are so self deluded that they have a premium product that if they convince themselves that rust, jerking gearboxes and random warning lights are just part of day to day motoring in a newish £50k plus car. My cousins 2002 A4 has no rust, my fathers 2012 S class has bubbling paint on two panels.

 

If you like breaking down, buy a Mercedes.

 

 

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[Linas.P]

Well, my experience with Mercedes is pretty limited to 2010 C350 4-Matic and few 2014-2015 E class loaners. The only thing I gathered from my ownership that material and built quality was sub-par even to say something like BMW, where material quality might not be the best, but everything joints nicely and feels solid... not so on Merc everything rattles, mine was 35k miles and buttons on stereo and passenger door were already broken... and leather ohhh leather what a terrible thing, it would be more comfortable if they would have used cardboard to cover seats, hard and slippery. Mine was Elegance (1 down from top spec. Avangarde in Europe). E-class loaners were just cheaply made, mostly new cars but just felt cheap and very basic inside. 

Rust on the wheel arches is not exactly reliability issue in my opinion, poor maintenance e.g. unaddressed stone chips and poor repairs most likely to be an issue. When I say 1998-2005 Mercs unreliable.. I mean they are notoriously unreliable with multiple severe problems, blowing engines, gearboxes, suspension components ... and higher class parts will be more expensive to replace.. hence you see 2003 CLs, S'es selling dirt cheap - that is because it will easily rack-up £12k bill if you go to fix it just for parts alone. the ones after that period are still unreliable, but not going to breakdown with £3000 worth of stupid part 100 metres after you buy it.

[Vlady]

12 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I am not sure... for me interior look very ugly in Infinity. The exterior is questionable already, bun interior is properly ugly... 

MB were very unreliable from late 90's ~1998-9 and ~2006-2008. The new Mercs are just simply dull, similar to BMW and Audi (Audi dullest of them all)... not really that unreliable but you must spend fortune on options or it will be very basic. If looking for used - will never find it with right options.. 

I quite like the way it looks from outside, not so sure about interior though, I would need to sit in and tough it, play with it.

The reason I asked is that my friend drives an 11plate E-class and was thinking about changing it and asked me about Q50., I had a look quickly at some reviews and they are not good at all! Why would they use an old Merc 2.1 engine? Oh well, never mind!

By the way, she is very happy with her E-class, may be just a lucky car!

[Vlady]

8 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Well, my experience with Mercedes is pretty limited to 2010 C350 4-Matic and few 2014-2015 E class loaners. The only thing I gathered from my ownership that material and built quality was sub-par even to say something like BMW, where material quality might not be the best, but everything joints nicely and feels solid... not so on Merc everything rattles, mine was 35k miles and buttons on stereo and passenger door were already broken... and leather ohhh leather what a terrible thing, it would be more comfortable if they would have used cardboard to cover seats, hard and slippery. Mine was Elegance (1 down from top spec. Avangarde in Europe). E-class loaners were just cheaply made, mostly new cars but just felt cheap and very basic inside. 

Rust on the wheel arches is not exactly reliability issue in my opinion, poor maintenance e.g. unaddressed stone chips and poor repairs most likely to be an issue. When I say 1998-2005 Mercs unreliable.. I mean they are notoriously unreliable with multiple severe problems, blowing engines, gearboxes, suspension components ... and higher class parts will be more expensive to replace.. hence you see 2003 CLs, S'es selling dirt cheap - that is because it will easily rack-up £12k bill if you go to fix it just for parts alone. the ones after that period are still unreliable, but not going to breakdown with £3000 worth of stupid part 100 metres after you buy it.

It's a shame isn' it? End of 70's to middle of 90's MB was one of the most reliable cars and now it fall all the way down. I think nowadays it is safer to buy a 25 years old 190E Merc or an ols W124 than a c-class or E-class. Hey, people still buy it though, just tells you how reputation proceeds you. 🙂

 

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Vlady said:

Why would they use an old Merc 2.1 engine? Oh well, never mind!

That is only diesel one? Why would she even consider diesel nowadays? 😄 

I was considering Q60 myself, but as I said I just found interior ugly... as I said exterior is questionable (I personally like it), but interior is mess, a lot of bright coloured buttons and displays, they seems to prefer strip club blue and red LEDs everywhere, seats are ok - leather is quite soft and nice (thought I heard they do not last), but dashboard is really messed-up in my opinion, controls are confusing and actual buttons feels unbelievably cheap. I haven't driven one (Q60S seems promising with 3.0T and 400hp, 5.0s to 60), just sat in one for 30 min in Westfield centre playing with all gizmos. 

So there are a lot of toys inside, but everything poorly implemented, I would probably guess it is chinese manufactured car if all infinity badges would be removed. 

[st4]

That is only diesel one? Why would she even consider diesel nowadays? [emoji1] 
I was considering Q60 myself, but as I said I just found interior ugly... as I said exterior is questionable (I personally like it), but interior is mess, a lot of bright coloured buttons and displays, they seems to prefer strip club blue and red LEDs everywhere, seats are ok - leather is quite soft and nice (thought I heard they do not last), but dashboard is really messed-up in my opinion, controls are confusing and actual buttons feels unbelievably cheap. I haven't driven one (Q60S seems promising with 3.0T and 400hp, 5.0s to 60), just sat in one for 30 min in Westfield centre playing with all gizmos. 
So there are a lot of toys inside, but everything poorly implemented, I would probably guess it is chinese manufactured car if all infinity badges would be removed. 

Before I bought the GS I did think about a G50s 3.0t. I like that sort of car, but the US forums pointed to a car that has small niggles and quality problems.

Actually this forum is unlike any other car forum I’ve been on. There’s just so few threads discussing problems, common faults or issues regarding quality. I think there’s like one thread on here discussing a snapped timing chain - on the VAG and BMW forums it’s a common thing.

Toyota really do build a car like no other.


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[gdh300]

Can I retract my inclusion of Jaguar in my list?

I've been idly looking at secondhand pre-owned XEs but have just come across all the faults reported on their forums! Er, no thanks... 

[Vlady]

21 hours ago, gdh300 said:

Can I retract my inclusion of Jaguar in my list?

I've been idly looking at secondhand pre-owned XEs but have just come across all the faults reported on their forums! Er, no thanks... 

Is it so bad? I am still digesting how bad MB nowadays is, plus was reading a bit on Infiniti - some people really like it.

I am glad and feel lucky that when I had a choice I went Lexus not Jaguar XF or an E-classe! 

[gdh300]

58 minutes ago, Vlady said:

Is it so bad?

Not stellar, not for a car that has only been out what, three years? Have a look here. 

Reportedly they drive very well good - which is what counts - but having sat in one, I can't say the inside was "wow, that's impressive".  

But to be honest, I' think I'd be wary of any JLR product; reading HJ there are a lot of expensive repairs mentioned. Buying one would be heart-over-head.

[rich1068]

A friend of ours has an Evoque that's only about 4 years old and the faults on that are staggering. It's like built in obsolescence. And actually as most of these vehicle are now aimed at fleets the cynic in me says that's exactly what it is.

[Dealkent]

4 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

A friend of ours has an Evoque that's only about 4 years old and the faults on that are staggering. It's like built in obsolescence. And actually as most of these vehicle are now aimed at fleets the cynic in me says that's exactly what it is.

I know Land Rover Range Rover are known for unreliability, BUT I have 3 different friends with new Evoques ( 3 years old now ) and None of them have had problems ? 

[gdh300]

22 minutes ago, Dealkent said:

I know Land Rover Range Rover are known for unreliability, BUT I have 3 different friends with new Evoques ( 3 years old now ) and None of them have had problems ? 

The majority of JLR owners must be happy I'm sure, they aren't that bad (what cars are nowadays?). But the reported incidents seem high for what is marketed as a 'premium' brand. I guess it shows how the meaning of the word 'premium' has shifted in the car world; soft touch plastics in the passenger footwell seems to be the measure now rather than the longevity of the water pump, etc. That, and being "reassuringly expensive" (the profit on the more expensive Range Rovers is staggering). 

28 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

A friend of ours has an Evoque that's only about 4 years old and the faults on that are staggering. It's like built in obsolescence. And actually as most of these vehicle are now aimed at fleets the cynic in me says that's exactly what it is.

Cynics together! Fleet sales (witness long service intervals on BMWs for example) and selling finance to private buyers (that's almost everyone in the UK it appears!), that's where the money is made now. As long as they get a good resale figure after three years they are happy to wash their hands of the cars, it appears. 

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, gdh300 said:

 I guess it shows how the meaning of the word 'premium' has shifted in the car world;

Don't think that at all. Premium/Luxury never mean reliable - Lexus and some old Mercs are more exception then a rule. Talking very specifically about Jaguar and Land Rover - they were considered as premium for many years now, probably 50 and 30 respectively and both were always notoriously unreliable. 

Based on that the meaning has not "shifted", in this particular case it "exactly stayed the same" instead of obviously improving (which would be welcome thing).

[Dealkent]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:22 PM, st4 said:

Before I bought the GS I did think about a G50s 3.0t. I like that sort of car, but the US forums pointed to a car that has small niggles and quality problems.

Actually this forum is unlike any other car forum I’ve been on. There’s just so few threads discussing problems, common faults or issues regarding quality. I think there’s like one thread on here discussing a snapped timing chain - on the VAG and BMW forums it’s a common thing.

Toyota really do build a car like no other.


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That’s a good point ! On other forums for other car makes most of the discussions are about things going wrong . For 4 years I had my Jag XF and I was glued to the forum reading about problems & potential problems, also learnt a lot about things and managed  to get things replaced even after warranty  because other s had highlighted the issues already .