Together in Electric Dreams

[tomRCFcarbon]

So there is a bit of a debate going on about the advent of electric cars. Some feel it’s going to happen quite soon and the current v8’s on the market are the last of a dead civilisation...others feel that adoption will take a long time, there’s loads of info out there. Here is a thread to contain it all (or some of it at least) and disagree with one another about it. 

[Flytvr]

In the Blue corner with his plastic bonnet, we have @tomRCFcarbon

in the red corner we have smokey diesel @Linas.P with his ubiquitous IS220d

DING DING round ONE

 

@NemesisUK get your popcorn🍿 ready!!!

[tomRCFcarbon]

Nope. Not playing.

(yet)

[FTBBCVoodoo]

Not gonna lie.  I had to Google what ULEV stood for.  Petrolhead me 🙂

without googling I don't know what PHEV stands for either on the side of those Mitsubishi's but going to guess at Petrol Hybrid Electric Vehicle.

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

In the Blue corner with his plastic bonnet, we have @tomRCFcarbon

in the red corner we have smokey diesel @Linas.P with his ubiquitous IS220d

DING DING round ONE

 

@NemesisUK get your popcorn🍿 ready!!!

You didn't give me an option!!!! bloody hell! I said 2043+

I think the thread is more suitable for General Discussion forum thought @Bluesman

[Tfp]

My two pence.

The biggest crooks out there don't even wear masks anymore.

Whatever happens the government will extract every penny out of it, all in the name of saving our planet etc.....

These smart motorways that government are saying is all about safety?

Pull the other one, they wouldn't be spending all that money upgrading to smart motorways in the interest of our safety. Pay per mile will soon be here, and a very nice sideline with a great income will be zero tolerance speeding detection.

If they phase out petrol they lose a massive income from fuel duty, so it'll have to go back on, and it will. Electric cars won't be the cheap option everyone thinks it will be.

So back on topic, sorry for the rant.

I don't think they'll phase out petrol, not while they are making 80% in fuel duty.

So I say more than 20 years.

And I'll be happy if I'm still around to be proved wrong.

[Guest]

Fuel cell will eventually beat batteries.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Flytvr]

Car manufacturers are always pushing the next must have technology. They pushed the diesel market and now they'll push electric. At the end of the day, they have to continue getting sales and if everyone is convinced they need to buy the next trendy type of car, the car companies will do very well!

[Ala Larj]

Am wondering if this thread should be renamed cynics anonymous!😉

[ColinBarber]

I'd say 50.1% market share is achievable in 5 years. There are a few large companies working on next generation Battery tech which could come to market in 3 or 4 years time, plus a reduction in cost from economies of scale should mean the largest volume segments start to include ULEV.

ULEVs greatly outsold the entire Lexus range in 2016 with exponential growth in 2017. The new Leaf is a massive improvement over the old model, so will appeal to more and more people.

 

[Flytvr]

6 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

Am wondering if this thread should be renamed cynics anonymous!😉

We’re all doomed laddy 🤪

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, Comedian said:

Fuel cell will eventually beat batteries.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

Agreed..

I think there will be a quite sudden jump to ZEV, leaving ULEV  behind. ULEV will be a very short lived phase..

[ColinBarber]

12 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Agreed..

I think there will be a quite sudden jump to ZEV, leaving ULEV  behind. ULEV will be a very short lived phase..

Well I assumed ZEV is included in the ULEV question raised. The definition of ULEV will certain change over the next 5 to 10 years.

[C.B]

Given how long it takes for something to go from concept to forecourt in the automotive industry I cant see how anything under 10 years is achievable.

Starting to look for a new family car at the mo, feel like we should get something 'good' to balance out my cars 'evil'. The percentage of new cars launched in the last 12 months without even a hybrid or PHEV option is depressing. Tiguan & T-Roc has no such option for example.

Think we are going to wait it out for a model 3 and buck the trend, but I voted 20.

[NemesisUK]

13 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Well I assumed ZEV is included in the ULEV question raised. The definition of ULEV will certain change over the next 5 to 10 years.

ULEV must still burn fossil fuel surely, to be able to measure some level of emission?

ZEV, by definition emit nothing, so could only be fuel cell or Battery powered

[ColinBarber]

5 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

ULEV must still burn fossil fuel surely, to be able to measure some level of emission?

ZEV, by definition emit nothing, so could only be fuel cell or battery powered

From greencarguide:

Quote

An Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) is a car or van that emits 75g/km CO2 or less, based on the NEDC test. ULEVs include pure electric vehicles, electric range-extender vehicles, and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs).

This seems to match the definition on the government's website.

[Ala Larj]

Pure elecric vehicles produce emissions at the power plant that produces the electricity.

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

Pure elecric vehicles produce emissions at the power plant that produces the electricity.

No they don't. The electricity, in its generation, may produce emissions but the vehicle itself does not.

[Ala Larj]

Pendant! 😉

[Linas.P]

59 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

No they don't. The electricity, in its generation, may produce emissions but the vehicle itself does not.

I still don't understand ... specifically from global warming perspective... What is the difference where pollution is generated? I understand that is more important in the city, but equally city is not protected from global environment changes. For me it is sort of attitude - "if I don't see it it doesn't hurt".

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

From greencarguide:

This seems to match the definition on the government's website.

Agreed ...

ZEV can be included in ULEV (a measurable level of toxic emissions) but not all ULEV (by Gov. definitions) can be included in ZEV. (no measurable toxic emissions)

So, ZEV can only be fuel cell or Battery powered (or possibly thorium cell?? 😉)

[NemesisUK]

17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I still don't understand ... specifically from global warming perspective... What is the difference where pollution is generated? I understand that is more important in the city, but equally city is not protected from global environment changes. For me it is sort of attitude - "if I don't see it it doesn't hurt".

Emissions are far better and easily controlled in a centralised generation location, than scattered across the map.

The actions/mileage of the driver of a ZEV has no impact on global warming..

[Womble72]

One thing that amazes me is the UK has 6% of its land mass occupied/developed, air quality is measured in this 6% of habitation, there will always be mass pollution in such a small developed area, IF and only IF phev and equivalent vehicles are to be the future the lost revenue will be recouped via kWh prices being increased across the board, industry is the main pollutant and cars are a fraction of it, its more environmentally damaging to produce and dispose of any electric cell/battery etc than it is in any combustible engine vehicle BUT the government and car industry feels it must show to be cleaning up its act on a daily discharge basis and NOT on the lifetime of the car itself, it’s nothing more than a marketing ploy to get people to think they’re doing their bit which infact they are doing more irreversible damage to the world as a whole. Daresay elect vehicles will be the future albeit a short one once the factual truth is available......pass this onto the kids as well be wormbate or dust by the time it’s common knowledge 🙄

[C.B]

What depresses me if I think about it, is that we have got many different ways of producing clean energy. Realised fossil fuels were doing damage long ago but were too lazy/arrogant as a race to actually do anything about it.

Not sure if we have any red dwarf fans on here, but they make a joke that the human race is basically a planetary virus. Seems pretty accurate to me..

[NemesisUK]

There's millions of unclaimed government grant for the installation of charging infrastructure ... something like only 3 councils have applied ...