Which F (if any) will be a future classic?

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

Electric vehicle infrastructure isn’t hard to install and won’t take much to make happen, after all we have a strong and adaptable grid in the UK and across Europe with tons of capacity so creating charging points is just a job of selecting sites and building them. Regarding charging times, that will be helped by wireless charging integrated into places where vehicles commonly pause (traffic lights, etc) and new tech such as super capacitors and 800v charging packs are bringing charging times down. Hot swappable battery packs are another way of enabling super quick fill ups and initially are the likely way that HGVs will fill up - but with TACHO stops required by law they often dwell for long periods anyway.  

I cannot agree... "infrastructure isn’t hard to install" - Is that well researched opinion or guess? We have nowhere near capacity and last time I was bothered to check they said we would need 6 more "Hinkley Points C's" to generate enough electricity just for electric cars alone, assuming other demands won't go-up. But generating the power is just first step, then entire network have to be completely overhauled "ground-up" as current networks have no such capacity, nor logistics, all on street cabling has to change and all house installations has to change, that is especially true and problematic in larger estates. I battled with my building management company to get "slow" charging point and that went nowhere, "fast" charging is out of question altogether as electrical installation in building build in 2016 is not sufficient for such heavy duty use... I mean for a single Tesla, never-mind 30 (that is capacity of the parking lot).

Second thing, by 2040 - they will stop selling new ICE cars in UK, I am sure there will be massive pre-reg exercise and there will be some final stock in dealerships for 2-3 years after the deadline. From there on, it will take 10 years to reduce ICE auto park by 50% and another 10 year to reduce another 30% and probably even in 2070 we still going to have ~5-10% of ICE cars running. Even if they stop selling petrol/diesel by 2050... most of diesel cars can run/are easily convertible to run on oil and petrol cars on ethanol.

@Spacewagon52 - agreed. There is difference between "classic" and "appreciating classic" - one is guaranteed, other is dependent on many circumstances and varies greatly.

[tomRCFcarbon]

 

48 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Is that well researched opinion or guess?

Well researched.

 

23 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

current networks have no such capacity

Not true. HV system has capacity. City grids also have capacity. Car charging won't present a large load and with a smart grid charging the needs of vehicles along with other demands can be sequenced to balance the load. The issue of 1.5KW kettles all being switched on at the half time whistle of the FA cup presented a far bigger peak voltage grid issue than car chargers.

23 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

6 more "Hinkley Points C's"

Also not true. We have a generating surplus at present, with electricity producers being paid to switch off generation. An increase in demand is inevitable from a national fleet of electric cars but projections for generation capacity easily meet anticipated demand. Along with more renewable and more efficient renewable generation we will also likely see community Battery storage and more efficient houses that require less electricity to run - over two decades the amount of energy it takes to light a household has fallen by over 90%, the amount of energy to cool a building has fallen by 80% demand for electricity even with a national fleet of electric vehicles doesn't increase as much as you think. 

 

33 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I battled with my building management company

Of no relevance here. All this tells us is that your building management company (along with most building management companies I am sure), couldn't be bothered to install a bigger circuit breaker into their outdoor fuse box. Building reg's demand that there be enough capacity in your buildings for the demand put upon that building. There will be easily enough capacity in the copper running into your building, what you have currently come up against is not the capacity of those cables, but rather the capacity of your building management company to give a sh*t about your car charging needs...give it 5 years and demand will mean that the market dictates to your building management company that they have to install this stuff for the building to have a continuing institutional investment value...and believe me once the institutional investors demand it - those holding the debt will jump to it!

39 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

some final stock in dealerships

You are massively underestimating the auto industries appetite for change. They may seem late to the party, but they have been quietly pivoting their businesses to change completely and swiftly. Volvo - all electric or hybrid range by next year. VW and Audi all electric/hybrid car range by early 20's. BMW the same. 

Alongside this the 2% BIK tax rate for zero emissions vehicles comes back in the next 18 months which will see fleet and company drivers move to electric, which equates to about 60% of all cars registered. Once that happens its only a matter of time.

My guess is that ICE cars will be specialist purchases by people like us by 2030, let alone 2040.

[Linas.P]

I guess we both quoting the sources which backs-up our narrative in two extreme ends.

I still tend to think you underestimate the work needed to build-up the infrastructure. Secondly, in my opinion demand will be infrastructure driven, not wise versa i.e. people like me living in flats won't have infrastructure because building management companies never gives... when it comes time to actually managing something. People in terraced houses without drives equally won't take-up. As such demand continue to be niche for rich with detached houses and off-street parking.

Plug-in hybrids might be a trend for few years, but they still need some dinosaur juice. 

[Flytvr]

The electric debate is very interesting.

Any chance one of you could create a dedicated thread to discuss?

[FTBBCVoodoo]

5 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

The electric debate is very interesting.

Any chance one of you could create a dedicated thread to discuss?

And make it a sticky

[Flytvr]

12 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

And make it a sticky

I’d like to pretend that’s not funny 😜

[tomRCFcarbon]

Created. Careful what you wish for. 

[CallTheBall]

I'm a non F owner, but have driven them all (apart from the LFA), I see the F range as follows -

IS-F - Possibly could be a classic - but not sure it stands out enough. At the time it hit the market, it really didn't get the recognition it deserved.

GS-F - Most difficult to predict for me. As good as the RC-F - no doubt, but with 4 doors I don't think it has the impact of the RCF.

RC-F - Seems to be getting lots of good press recently. Being a two door coupe, I think it is a strong contender

RC-F Carbon - as the RC-F, but this car seems to be the daddy and the most rare. My money is on the RC-F Carbon.

[st4]

Probably the RC - 2 door cars tend to be seen as more desirable


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[LittleCasper]

On 8/28/2018 at 10:14 AM, Linas.P said:

I don't see Lexus trying to raise their profile at all, at least not in UK. Sorry to repeat myself, but there is too wide gap in their line-up to properly promote proper F car. They need to make F as a pinnacle of the brand progression, now the disconnect between IS300h and GS-F and RC300h and RC-F is so huge, that RC-F acts more like separate independent brand (F-Marque) then extension of Lexus.

The brand progression starts from small car, say CT200h... but CT200h is boring as hell, great reliable car, but has no values except of being metal box taking you from a to b. It is great if somebody is lucky enough to get IS200 or maybe IS250 as as first car... they might hang onto the brand if they value reliability, however from there they have nowhere to go, no logical "upgrade". In US obviously that is IS/RC350.. in UK that mid-tier model does not exist and going all the way to RC-F or GS-F is not natural progression at all. As such, by the time people in UK would get to the point where they would consider RC-F as natural next step, they usually would have left Lexus brand for something else...

In the end people buying F cars are seasoned petrolhead who have tried everything and just decided to "give it a try".. which means it will never sell in high number and there is lack of exposure and appreciation for the cars.

To summarise, F would be much more recognised if Lexus would provide interesting entry-level cars (CT200t anyone?), and reasonable progression via mid-tier (IS/RC350) to attract and keep clients who cares about driving dynamics.

You're absolutely correct, tbh my first car is an IS250 and I still adore it; however I did have a work van before I bought my Lexus and I've found that I really need something bigger. The only options I can see is a GS250 which is slower than my IS250 with the same engine or going crazy by getting a GSF, which is way out of my budget as a 24 year old and totally imopractical for city driving. I don't want to get rid of my is250 as it does mostly everything I want, however I find myself needing more space for my scuba and camping equiptment; so a 335d or 330i estate is looking like a possible option in the future. I have toyed with buying a 4x4 Skoda Superb and getting it stage 2 mapped, but that seems rather excessive for such a boring car.

[Las Palmas]

One of these 2 would be my favourite depending on how many millions I would win in lottery: