RX400h Expenses!

[James_1970]

We recently got a 2009 RX400h.
It's a high mileage car with full Lexus Service history. I just took it for it's 140k service at Lexus and it came back with alot of expensive problems.
I had been hoping that it might have given us a couple of years of not too costly service.
I appreciate that alot of these things are wear and tear items. We did take out the extended Lexus warranty for £995 but they are saying that none of these things are covered.
I am wondering now if we would have been better off using that money on maintenence. It seems like main thing we are protecting ourselves against with the warranty is hybrid issues.

NEEDS URGENT ATTENTION
Engine radiator leaking - £640.22

ADVISORY
Engine Air filter £40.48
Steering - Nearside Inner CV gator weeping - £373.14
FRONT SUSPENSION: Nearside Front Shock Absorber weeping & Both Front Lower Arm Bushes deteriorated - £1863.14
REAR SUSPENSION: Play in offside Anti-Roll Bar bush & both Rear Dust Covers split - £352.93

All Discs/pads also need changing soon as well.
Wheel alignment check also failed at Rear.

I also looked into parts only prices at Lexus so that I could get a local garage to install. I have attached a pic of those part costs - they still come to £1100

Can I ask what any forum members would do?
I could just sell the car on. Or I could cancel the warranty and get a pro-rata refund of nearly the full £995 and spend that.
Apart from the radiator the other stuff is Advisory - Would you ignore those things for now?
I must say the car drives well but the steering is very light and floaty at high speed.

Would you buy any of these things like the radiator from EuroCarParts? They have Koyo/EIS makes. Or would you stick with Lexus?

I'd be grateful for any replies.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by James_1970
remove trivial cost

[PCM]

The radiator should be covered if it's a genuine Lexus radiator.

Why do they say some things are not? Is it the milage?

The pads etc., I can understand, but I have had shocks replaced under warranty...

 

[James_1970]

On 6/13/2018 at 3:43 PM, OldTrout said:

James,

Others will answer your first three queries but I agree about the headrest. I had a loan GS300h whilst my car was in for service and I had to remove the headrest to be able to drive. I mentioned it to the salesman when I retuned the car but he seemed not to get the point. He was not a tall person though so perhaps it was OK for him.

I have the same problem with several of the new range. My Mk2 and Mk3 GSs were fine. The Mk4 is so bad that I would not buy one.

Does the headrest in the Mk 450h move automatically according to the seat settings? The Mk3 does but I have not seen this mention in Lexus literature.

John

 

They say it's the age and mileage of the car.

It makes me wonder why they actually offer extended warranty on cars that are up to 10 years old and up to 140k miles at time warranty is taken out.

[PCM]

4 minutes ago, James_1970 said:

They say it's the age and mileage of the car.

It makes me wonder why they actually offer extended warranty on cars that are up to 10 years old and up to 140k miles at time warranty is taken out.

Then I would ask whoever sold you the Warranty to 'explain themselves'...

[PCM]

My car is 2003 - Warranty (Lexus) only just expired.

Mileage maybe?

[Rutlandlex]

I take it that you bought the car from a main dealer.  Check the MOT history of the car online and see if see if there were advisories on it the last time it was done before the dealer did one as all of these things apart from the air filter should be picked up on an MOT.  If these things were noted on the MOT before the dealer acquired the car but not on the one that they paid for or did themselves then you can go back to them and say that the price didn't reflect the true condition of the car so sort it!

I say this because many times before I have bought cars from dealers, both main dealers and independents, whereby they sell it with a fresh MOT with no advisories and it should have either failed or had advisories but then honesty wouldn't be good for sales would it?  You could also report the garage that did the MOT to VOSA if you think that they have not done the job properly.

If you get nowhere with them then you could take it to an independent garage and get them to inspect the car and quote you for repair including parts and labour because those prices quoted are out of this world!

[royoftherovers]

2 hours ago, PCM said:

My car is 2003 - Warranty (Lexus) only just expired.

Mileage maybe?

Why can`t you renew it Piers ?

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Rutlandlex said:

I take it that you bought the car from a main dealer.  Check the MOT history of the car online and see if see if there were advisories on it the last time it was done before the dealer did one as all of these things apart from the air filter should be picked up on an MOT.  If these things were noted on the MOT before the dealer acquired the car but not on the one that they paid for or did themselves then you can go back to them and say that the price didn't reflect the true condition of the car so sort it!

I say this because many times before I have bought cars from dealers, both main dealers and independents, whereby they sell it with a fresh MOT with no advisories and it should have either failed or had advisories but then honesty wouldn't be good for sales would it?  You could also report the garage that did the MOT to VOSA if you think that they have not done the job properly.

If you get nowhere with them then you could take it to an independent garage and get them to inspect the car and quote you for repair including parts and labour because those prices quoted are out of this world!

If the vehicle was bought from ANY Dealer, then it has a 6 month Statutory Warranty which makes the Seller responsible for correcting significant items.

That would cover the cost of replacing the Radiator.

The OP should then ask Lexus on what basis they sold him a Warranty which they now refuse to honour.

Forecoming correspondence may make interesting reading, me thinks.

[PCM]

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Why can`t you renew it Piers ?

Because... it's now over 14 years old.

BUT... I did use it up until May of this year.

My car has done about 90,000+ miles. So the milage was fine, just its age now.

[royoftherovers]

12 minutes ago, PCM said:

Because... it's now over 14 years old.

BUT... I did use it up until May of this year.

My car has done about 90,000+ miles. So the milage was fine, just its age now.

Thanks Peter.

This is I believe the current wording from the Extended Warranty Document

" Eligible vehicle A Lexus vehicle which - (a) has been branded and sold by Our Holding Company, Toyota Motor Europe NV/SA in Europe as a Category M1 Lexus passenger motor vehicle; (b) not have been modified structurally, mechanically or electronically otherwise than with the permission of Toyota Motor Europe NV/SA or save for the purpose of enabling it to be lawfully re-registered in the United Kingdom; (c) have standard Lexus wheels and normal road tyres fitted to it; (d) possess or be capable of possessing a European Certificate of Conformity; (e) was purchased through the Lexus Approved Used Car Programme with the benefit of a Lexus Extended Warranty; or (f) is less than 10 years old and has less than 140,000 miles on its milometer at the start of the first Warranty"

 

Note that in (f)....."at the start of the first warranty"

I contend that as your first Warranty met the mileage and age criteria that you should be eligible to continue with it. Ask Lexus to explain their decision in the context of the wording.

[PCM]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

Thanks Peter.

 

"Piers"

 

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, PCM said:

"Piers"

 

My sincere apologies Piers.

[rayaans]

7 hours ago, James_1970 said:

We recently got a 2009 RX400h.
It's a high mileage car with full Lexus Service history. I just took it for it's 140k service at Lexus and it came back with alot of expensive problems.
I had been hoping that it might have given us a couple of years of not too costly service.
I appreciate that alot of these things are wear and tear items. We did take out the extended Lexus warranty for £995 but they are saying that none of these things are covered.
I am wondering now if we would have been better off using that money on maintenence. It seems like main thing we are protecting ourselves against with the warranty is hybrid issues.

NEEDS URGENT ATTENTION
Engine radiator leaking - £640.22

ADVISORY
Engine Air filter £40.48
Steering - Nearside Inner CV gator weeping - £373.14
FRONT SUSPENSION: Nearside Front Shock Absorber weeping & Both Front Lower Arm Bushes deteriorated - £1863.14
REAR SUSPENSION: Play in offside Anti-Roll Bar bush & both Rear Dust Covers split - £352.93

All Discs/pads also need changing soon as well.
Wheel alignment check also failed at Rear.

I also looked into parts only prices at Lexus so that I could get a local garage to install. I have attached a pic of those part costs - they still come to £1100

Can I ask what any forum members would do?
I could just sell the car on. Or I could cancel the warranty and get a pro-rata refund of nearly the full £995 and spend that.
Apart from the radiator the other stuff is Advisory - Would you ignore those things for now?
I must say the car drives well but the steering is very light and floaty at high speed.

Would you buy any of these things like the radiator from EuroCarParts? They have Koyo/EIS makes. Or would you stick with Lexus?

I'd be grateful for any replies.

 

 

 

 

I would expect the radiator to be replaced under warranty. The shocks are a bit hit/miss. Some owners get them done under warranty, others have a hard time pushing for it but they should really be covered. 

Bushes are wear and tear so I dont expect those to be covered. Wheel alignment the same. Air filter would be wear and tear too. 

Try and get the radiator done under warranty unless its been damaged by a rock or something. 

[Parrot of Doom]

9 hours ago, James_1970 said:

NEEDS URGENT ATTENTION
Engine radiator leaking - £640.22

This should be a warranty issue.  I bought an RX400h from a main dealer, a few months later I discovered a hole in the exhaust.  They didn't want to know so I got Lexus UK involved on Twitter.  The dealer had their arse kicked and I got a whole new exhaust system.

Quote

ADVISORY
Engine Air filter £40.48

That is a ripoff, just go to ECP or similar and fit it yourself.  No tools required.

Quote

Steering - Nearside Inner CV gator weeping - £373.14

As long as the CV joint is still working properly I wouldn't worry about this yet.

Quote

FRONT SUSPENSION: Nearside Front Shock Absorber weeping & Both Front Lower Arm Bushes deteriorated - £1863.14

Another ripoff.  Just replace the shocks with compatible units, any garage can easily do this, it's a common job.  The lower control arm bushes - I bet they're quoting for new arms.  You can either get a garage you trust to source new bushings and install on the existing units, or you can buy whole new arms yourself and have a local garage install them (don't buy cheap Chinese rubbish from Ebay).  Either option is way cheaper than their quote.

Quote

REAR SUSPENSION: Play in offside Anti-Roll Bar bush & both Rear Dust Covers split - £352.93

Lol, ARB bushings are very cheap to install.  Any garage can do this at a fraction of that price.

Quote

All Discs/pads also need changing soon as well.

Let your MOT station determine this.

Quote

Wheel alignment check also failed at Rear.

Not a serious issue unless the car is wandering around on the road, or the tyres are wearing abnormally.  Don't do anything here until the suspension has been worked on.

Quote

Can I ask what any forum members would do?

Fix the most important issues first, NOT at a Lexus dealer but at a local garage (maybe find a Toyota specialist, they're all the same bits).  Work on the minor issues as and when you can afford them.  Then enjoy the car, it will last a long time.

[doog442]

There comes a time in a cars life when its best to avoid a main dealer. 

I don't think yours has reached that just yet so I would get a second opinion. Lexus have a habit of magicking a few things up, weeping shocks being one - ask for photographic proof.

Pads/ Discs / air filter are serviceable items...run your finger over the disc and see if there is a noticeable 'lip' on the outer edge..get an independent to replace.

If the radiator has gone they are £100 online...warranty should cover it

A CV boot weeping ? - a new clip of the jubilee type..as long as the boot isn't perished.

 

- That said you purchased a warranty and they are royally taking the p_ss so fight every step of the way. The so called Full Lexus service history probably isn't but look into it. Why would all of these issues suddenly manifest themselves on the last service ? 

 

 

 

[Delphius1]

I'd agree with everyone else that the radiator should be covered by warranty as it's not a wear and tear item. That is, unless it's been holed by a stone or something. That said, aftermarket radiators are just fine.

Aftermarket air filters are fine too. I fitted one to my rx, a 10 minute job. 

Shocks can produce an oil mist around the piston rod and not be worn out. If it's light misting then save your money and don't bother. If it's a heavy leak then replace.

The bushes do need replacing as with worn bushes in the front arms will affect the steering and your car will wander all over the place. 

The rear anti roll bar bushes are a tenner off eBay and are replaced by undoing four bolts. An easy DIY repair, easily accessible at the rear o the car. I did them myself.  Not sure which dust covers are split.

Warranties on a car that old are really only insurance against something electronic and expensive going wrong. Anything mechanical can be classed as worn out.

I'd second what everyone else says and advise you talk to an independent specialist garage. As you've found out, the pretty expensive warranty isn't worth much on an older car.

[PCM]

"pretty expensive warranty isn't worth much on an older car."

Mine was. IF... it's honoured.

Why be sold something that cannot be used? I would question that...

Great comments on this thread.

[James_1970]

Thanks all so much for replies on this. Really helpful.

Just to confirm - the car was purchased privately so no come back there.

After purchase I took out the Lexus Warranty which was on special offer at £995 for 2 years as the car just scraped into the criteria (under 10 years & 140k miles).

 

[PCM]

How many miles did it have when you bought the (Lexus?) warranty?

i.e., how much warranty life was expected?

[rayaans]

29 minutes ago, James_1970 said:

Thanks all so much for replies on this. Really helpful.

Just to confirm - the car was purchased privately so no come back there.

After purchase I took out the Lexus Warranty which was on special offer at £995 for 2 years as the car just scraped into the criteria (under 10 years & 140k miles).

 

I presume they did their checks before they gave you the warranty right?

And how long ago was it that you purchased the warranty because some of these issues don't exactly pop up overnight.

[Fsport]

Ludicrous prices.

Radiator can be bought for less than£100 and cost about £80 in labour to fit at any independent.

Air filter: just replace this yourself. Cost less than £10.  If the car has full service history why isnt the air filter mint?  I use to change mine every year but each time I replaced them, the old one looked almost new.  I now plan to replace them every 2 years.

As for suspension just leave these alone. These guys at Lexus love to look for the slightest wet stain near shock absorbers and go over board with their report.  Every Lexus car will have some stains/misting and these cars can go on for another 5+ years without any issue.

Finally as someone has mentioned, avoid Lexus dealers for any RX300 or RX400 service work and especially for MOTs.

As for 140k miles for a RX400, this is low mileage compared to whats normally out their for RX400s.

Did you not check the MOT history of your car before purchase.  Were the suspension issues not described in past MOTs?  If not then it is a case of the dealers trying it on.  If there were previous suspension history then you have potentially bought a dog.

In either case, your car will now be viewed as a dog to future buyers given the issues were reported in the service report.

 

[James_1970]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:24 AM, PCM said:

How many miles did it have when you bought the (Lexus?) warranty?

i.e., how much warranty life was expected? 

The car had done 138k Miles when I got the extended warranty.
Basically, as long as the car is under 10 years old and below 140k miles, Lexus give you the warranty for 2 years regardless.

ie the warranty runs for 2 years no matter mileage after that.

[James_1970]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:40 AM, rayaans said:

I presume they did their checks before they gave you the warranty right?

And how long ago was it that you purchased the warranty because some of these issues don't exactly pop up overnight. 

They didn't want to do any checks - Lexus UK were happy just giving the warranty over the phone.
I purchased the warranty within a few weeks of buying the car.

[James_1970]

20 minutes ago, Fsport said:

Ludicrous prices.

Radiator can be bought for less than£100 and cost about £80 in labour to fit at any independent.

Air filter: just replace this yourself. Cost less than £10.  If the car has full service history why isnt the air filter mint?  I use to change mine every year but each time I replaced them, the old one looked almost new.  I now plan to replace them every 2 years. 

As for suspension just leave these alone. These guys at Lexus love to look for the slightest wet stain near shock absorbers and go over board with their report.  Every Lexus car will have some stains/misting and these cars can go on for another 5+ years without any issue.

Finally as someone has mentioned, avoid Lexus dealers for any RX300 or RX400 service work and especially for MOTs.

As for 140k miles for a RX400, this is low mileage compared to whats normally out their for RX400s.

Did you not check the MOT history of your car before purchase.  Were the suspension issues not described in past MOTs?  If not then it is a case of the dealers trying it on.  If there were previous suspension history then you have potentially bought a dog.

In either case, your car will now be viewed as a dog to future buyers given the issues were reported in the service report.

 

Thanks for your reply.

Radiator can be bought for less than£100 - would you just get a 3rd party one?

"In either case, your car will now be viewed as a dog to future buyers given the issues were reported in the service report."

Apparently, a prospective new buyer cannot just call up Lexus and ask about the past service history of a car they don't yet own due to data protection. How enforceable this is I don't know.

When selling on, most private sellers/dealers, will just hand over the fully stamped service book minus all the other problematic service reports.

 

[PCM]

9 hours ago, James_1970 said:

The car had done 138k Miles when I got the extended warranty.
Basically, as long as the car is under 10 years old and below 140k miles, Lexus give you the warranty for 2 years regardless.

ie the warranty runs for 2 years no matter mileage after that.

So...if that's the case, why are they 'saying' they won't honour it?