When mark Levinson really shines....

Shaunomercy · August 22, 2018

Well I had to have a play... I'd seen the DTS and Dolby logos on the ml.
So after giving the is/c a wash I went in the loft and went foraging for a couple of DVD's..

Tried 3 in all and have to say, whilst in normal audio listening, dab radio, FM, cd it does sound above average

Fed the multichanger my 3 choice dvd's from the loft.

Back to the future 1. I particularly wanted to listen to the ticks and chimes of the clocks near the beginning.

I wanted to see if the system would pull out the clicks and noises of all the clocks. The sound of the tiny noises as the mechanism of the clocks moved etc. Blown away...

Gone in 60 seconds. The surround imaging was faultless.. from the start of the music to the crash of the glass as the Porsche is launched thru the window...

Lastly. The start of the original terminator movie...

All the lasers going off and the tracked vehicle crushing the skulls and then into the terminator movie sound track theme....

Just stunning... Gave me goose pimples.

Which brought me to one particular conclusion about the ML system.

Feed it the right quality audio and it really really blows you away.

Feed it a lesser audio signal, dab, FM, analogue cd and it is better than most car systems but doesn't blow you away.

Will the ml handle flac audio files ?

As for the dvd side... I will keep a couple in the car for when Highways England have screwed the road network up and I'm sat in a traffic jam...

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August 22, 2018

It's a hi quality sound system that doesn't play: flac, SACD, bluray audio. (Even now on latest cars)

DVD collection went years ago (audio on dvds is compressed).

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Linas.P · August 22, 2018

That was mentioned many times - where ML really shines is when it is fed good source, if you just play mp3s from you phone I almost prefer standard system over ML.

Herbie · August 22, 2018

3 hours ago, Shaunomercy said:

Feed it the right quality audio and it really really blows you away.

Feed it a lesser audio signal, dab, FM, analogue cd and it is better than most car systems but doesn't blow you away.

Isn't that the same for everything?

DAB radio is rubbish as it stands because our grabbing government want to squeeze as many channels in as possible to get as much money as possible. Allow it to run at a high bitrate and the sound quality becomes superb. The source is key - you can't have a great output if the input is rubbish.

Mind you, my 60-year old ears have been pummeled by many years of live gigs of bands such as LED Zeppelin and Deep Purple etc., etc., so they ain't what they used to be

Ala Larj · August 22, 2018

Unfortunately nor are Deep Purple since Richie left!

J Henderson · August 22, 2018

Speaking of LED Zeppelin, the DTS soundtrack on this DVD sounds brilliant through a Mark Levinson system.

I bought a number concert/music DVDs to play in the car when I had an ML system, including a few others featuring DTS sountracks but nothing sounded quite as epic as the LED Zep DVD.

jackcramerr · August 22, 2018

Standard ML lacks a sub that makes huge difference if you listen to pop or rock or rap. Folk or country music, don't bother then. Mono audio would be better vs 5.1.

I would throw in another one if there was space for added punch.

Shaunomercy · August 23, 2018

I don't know how much the ml in the saloon differs from the convertible speaker wise, but it's certainly not lacking in the isc.

I think the misnomer is that people expect the ml to be something it was never designed to be.

The ml is audiophile. Its about authentic music reproduction. Hence the amp thd ( total harmonic distortion ) being 0.1 from 20htz to 20khtz. The full human hearing spectrum. The music sounding as faithful as to how the artist recorded it in the studio. Bass and treble settings don't make a huge difference to the sound overall.

The pioneer based system could be best described as hi-fi. More punchy, maybe more dynamic sounding, i.e lively, but not sound accurate.

As for bigger subs... This area is missunderstood. Increasing the bass can just muddy the midrange.

I understand focal have a very good rep in car audio. So I had a browse. Linked below.

Their p25 10inch sub is rated to 45htz. Some 25htz higher than the ml system.

So it's not actually going that deep in the audio spectrum.

https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/expert/subwoofers-bass-enclosures/sub-p-25-db

A proper sub is a different beast. Generally found in home cinema systems, but again there are very few that can actually get near 20htz and even fewer that can do true subsonic bass. Bass you feel but cannot hear.

Rel are one company that make audiophile subs that truly go subsonic. And they crack ceilings too...

Everyone's ears perceive music differently.

Standard ML lacks a sub that makes huge difference if you listen to pop or rock or rap. Folk or country music, don't bother then. Mono audio would be better vs 5.1.
I would throw in another one if there was space for added punch.

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Neil E · August 28, 2018

The ML kit made by Harman tries to be 'audiophile' quality on a budget. I agree it's very good but ignore what Lexus feed you for a minute, sit in a car with after-market high quality speakers and amplification set up for SQ, listen to the same music source and let your ears be the judge.

Shaunomercy · August 29, 2018

The biggest issue with the ml Neil imho is it doesn't sound good with any source that isn't excellent quality.
FM, dab YouTube music etc and it sounds flat.
Dvd audio does sound epic.

There are some trial offers going at the moment on tidal which offers
Lossless and high definition music.

My local audiophile shop seems to think it's very very good.

Im tempted to give it a go on the trial..

Any one else tried tidal ?

Paul

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Neil E · August 29, 2018

I'm a bit 'old skool' CD/DVD mostly, I agree the source/signal is important but no matter how good it is, to my ears, the ML speakers have their limitations.

If you are happy with the sound then stick with it, (why spend any more money) but if you appreciate good sound quality, I would suggest it's worth sitting in an SQ competition car to judge just how good it really is before being content.

steveledzep · August 29, 2018

32 minutes ago, Neil E said:

I'm a bit 'old skool' CD/DVD

I'm 'older skool' Vinyl records on a top home system for me. HiFi and Cars don't co-exist in my opinion.

Shaunomercy · August 30, 2018

A nice rega, with a Linn amp and Linn kabre speakers... With a rell stampede for the really low stuff.

Yes a totally agree. You cannot better vinyl.

It's going to be interesting when this new hd vinyl comes out.

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rich1068 · August 30, 2018

10 hours ago, steveledzep said:

I'm 'older skool' Vinyl records on a top home system for me. HiFi and Cars don't co-exist in my opinion.

8 hours ago, Shaunomercy said:

A nice rega, with a Linn amp and Linn kabre speakers... With a rell stampede for the really low stuff.

Yes a totally agree. You cannot better vinyl.

It's going to be interesting when this new hd vinyl comes out.

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Bit of an older format fan myself. I enjoy playing with MD and cassette (picked up a lovely Technics RS-BX707 recently) but I do still like my vinyl too. None of this Linn stuff though I set myself strict spending limits and get everything off the bay. It's one of the reasons I like the older Lexus, record from vinyl onto cassette and play it in the car. Analogue ftw!

Sorry. Off topic. Carry on...

Neil E · August 31, 2018

On 8/30/2018 at 12:06 AM, steveledzep said:

I'm 'older skool' Vinyl records on a top home system for me. HiFi and Cars don't co-exist in my opinion.

If a top home audio system is the definition of HIFI, then I agree. I haven't found a car system that can replicate the same listening experience as that of a top end home system in a listening room but I've heard a few that have been very impressive. Have you listened to a really good in car system to know what is possible?

steveledzep · August 31, 2018

For me, it's not whether the car system can produce the quality. It's about the environment. The level of concentration required to drive today and the extraneous noise means music in the car is just background music irrespective of the quality of reproduction. I had an ML system in an IS250 once, it was very good, but wasted in the car environment. MP3 is probably sufficient for playing in a car.

I spend many hours in my man cave listening to music. I give it my full attention and become immersed.

Shaunomercy · September 1, 2018

If a top home audio system is the definition of HIFI, then I agree. I haven't found a car system that can replicate the same listening experience as that of a top end home system in a listening room but I've heard a few that have been very impressive. Have you listened to a really good in car system to know what is possible?

As it happens Neil. Yes !!! I shift cars for a living with a car transporter. I get in a few million quidsworth of cars a week from your basic poverty level finance white pos to 200k+cars.
One of the most stand out sound systems thats made me turn my head recently was the meridian in the range rover evoke... !!! That does sound stunning. Imho better than the system in the 200k lwb limo dogs nads range rover.

But everyone has their own tuned ears. I have a midrange priced pair of akg headphones... Last Xmas senheisser had a big price reduction on a set of their premium headphones so I bought them and after an hour of listening, I preferred my akg's and returned the senheissers.

I've never sat in a sound off car with a true custom system. I just get to have a listen at whatever is in the car I'm shifting. Premium sound or basic poverty level sound system.

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September 1, 2018

7 hours ago, Shaunomercy said:

But everyone has their own tuned ears. I have a midrange priced pair of akg headphones... Last Xmas senheisser had a big price reduction on a set of their premium headphones so I bought them and after an hour of listening, I preferred my akg's and returned the senheissers.

+1 for akg cans.

Neil E · September 1, 2018

I'm more than a bit jealous of your job. I understand what you're saying about 'tuned' ears, your best home system (or live music if it were possible) is the repeatable hifi reference and everything else is judged by that but keep going back to the hifi reference frequently to know how you think the piece should sound, (the detail of the clicks and noises of the clocks, etc). The phrase in your original post, that drew me to respond, made me wonder if you had ever listened to car audio built for SQ?

'Just stunning... Gave me goose pimples.

Which brought me to one particular conclusion about the ML system.

Feed it the right quality audio and it really really blows you away.'

If you're happy with the standard set up, don't change it but if you really, really like music whilst travelling, you might be surprised at how much closer to the hifi reference a serious aftermarket audio set up can sound. Whether it's worth it is another debate.🙂

45 minutes ago, Comedian said:

+1 for akg cans.

Thanks, I better try some.

September 1, 2018

My favourite track in the car is V8 composed by Lexus featuring Yamaha on strings and Quicksilver on the wind section.

I like a warm system, not too fussed about accuracy as long as I can enjoy and listen for a long time. I've heard "better" systems where I can hear more but can't listen for long and have to turn it down or off. SO as long as my system has plenty of power and I can get it to sound warm enough I am happy.

What I like about the ML is the power without distortion. I'd happily take the premium out of the mk2 is250 though. That was lovely and warm for all day listening.

The AKG are good for long term listening and at about £100 (iirc) are comfy and warm. Accurate? No idea but after 20+ years working next to aircraft engines it doesn't really matter. Don't we lose frequency with age too?

Big Rat · September 1, 2018

@Comedian Bit like you really as regards hearing...... admittedly I’m a just a tiny tad older.... but years of gunfire in the military..... and power tools and nail guns for 30+ years..... when I sing along to my ML tracks..... I sound just like that Pavarotti bloke......well sort of 😕

🐀

Neil E · September 1, 2018

Unless there's an LFA handy, there's no substitute for the sound of the V8. Yes there is a frequency loss with age, I think it affects hearing too. I'm so old, I've stopped testing how much has disappeared from each end of the scale.

rich1068 · September 1, 2018

4 hours ago, Comedian said:

+1 for akg cans.

3 hours ago, Neil E said:

Thanks, I better try some.

Check the Harman store on eBay. I picked up a couple of pairs of AKG phones that were supposed to be returns or something. Brand new, unmarked, sealed and all that http://www.ebaystores.com/harmanaudiouk