RWD, 400+ BHP, public roads. Who you kidding?

[Flytvr]

Playing devil's advocate.

RWD, a petrol head's final drive nirvana. The motoring press ram it down our throats, advanced drivers tell us it's the best, blah, blah, blah.

But do you exploit this wonderful thing - do you slide your car around - do you adjust the attitude of your car in the corners? Have you got the skill to do all this? 

Most of us don't (or very infrequently) venture on to the track. This leaves us with the public highways. Does RWD therefore make even less sense?

So, how important is RWD to you and why?

[tomRCFcarbon]

I’m no Tiff Nedell...but having driven various FWD and AWD performance cars of different shades RWD does feel more natural flowing down a road. Not necessarily better or faster, but more natural and balanced. It’s not about slow roundabout, oppo locked exits, it’s about 20-90mph b-road blasts where you can see a mile or two down the road and the road can safely be exploited. 

The one format I’ve never owned is mid-engine RWD, I’ve liked how they’ve driven when I have had them on a track or borrowed for a day. But the Ferrari I drove (355) and the Honda both felt amazing and perhaps a little more exploitable than something front engined like my RCF.  

[Stuno1]

It is the most enjoyable set up in a car. Awd cars have too much grip unless they able to put power bias to the rear and even then the levels of grip detract from the rear end twitch of B road jaunts. Front wheel drive is just understeer and torque steer. 

 

Its not all about the track, you can have fun slipping the back end out on B roads. You don’t even have to be going 8 tenths to do it. Also the feeling of being pushed along from the rear is great.

[Flytvr]

Mid engined is great until you reach the limits!! Once this happens, you don’t even have the option of unfastening your seat belt,  jumping in the back and hiding!! 😂

[tomRCFcarbon]

6 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

Also the feeling of being pushed along from the rear is great.

🤔

[Tfp]

I don't drive fast anymore so doesn't matter to me which wheels are driven.

So before anyone says it, Yes, the RCF is a little wasted on me.

But I like rare cars.

For fast road use the best car I've had by a long way was the Audi TTRS

People say they're boring, soul less etc but for a usable car that you can get the power down where others can't, it's a clear winner.

I think the RCF is too big and heavy for tail happy driving, for me that job would go to a Toyota GT86. I learnt to drive in AE86's

So it's a good question/topic Flytvr, we should maybe take a bit less notice of magazine articles done by racing drivers on race tracks.

[Stuno1]

5 minutes ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

 I guess it all depends on who is doing the pushing... 

[Tfp]

10 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

Mid engined is great until you reach the limits!! Once this happens, you don’t even have the option of unfastening your seat belt,  jumping in the back and hiding!! 😂

100% yes.

I had a 70mph spin in a VX220 and survived by pure luck.

I sold it a week later.

[Stuno1]

27 minutes ago, Tfp said:

I don't drive fast anymore so doesn't matter to me which wheels are driven.

So before anyone says it, Yes, the RCF is a little wasted on me.

But I like rare cars.

For fast road use the best car I've had by a long way was the Audi TTRS

People say they're boring, soul less etc but for a usable car that you can get the power down where others can't, it's a clear winner.

I think the RCF is too big and heavy for tail happy driving, for me that job would go to a Toyota GT86. I learnt to drive in AE86's

So it's a good question/topic Flytvr, we should maybe take a bit less notice of magazine articles done by racing drivers on race tracks.

Issue with the gt86, Elise etc is they can’t do touring and even day to day are firm and not well refined. The rc-f and the competition do both pretty well without being perfect at either. That’s the draw of them I guess. 

[Mark G]

Yes, absolutely...……………….

[Northern isf]

It's not important to me at all,I think it all depends on how the cars been designed for driving such as a MK1 golf GTi which is in my opinion is more exciting than a 325i E30 BMW to drive and cheaper to own at that, I just wish I'd never have sold both of these cars now I'd be sitting on a small fortune!

[Linas.P]

Not sure if 320d drivers needs permission to speak here....

RWD is massively important for me, even without driving cars to the limit the balance is completely different, just say for little spirited driving, even within speed limits RWD feels so much better into the corners and out the corner. I once made mistake and got myself Passat CC, they tied to mimic RWD balance there by having wider tyres in the front (I believe it was 235 fronts, 225/215 rear) - in result what you get, car still understeers on throttle and snap-oversteers off throttle... in short balance was all over the place. On other FWD cars you get torque steer (especially in 200hp+), they always understeer and balance is mess.. completely not enjoyable to drive

So even without power (more so with the power) RWD is just about balance, joy, feel in the corners and control... well obviously unless you have FWD "which pushes from the back"!

I will make bold statement here and I am sure that is going to be massive explosion of insulted "snowflakes" - if driver doesn't feel the need for RWD, they they do not enjoy driving and they cannot qualify to call themselves petrolheads.. 

[noby76]

6 hours ago, Flytvr said:

Playing devil's advocate.

RWD, a petrol head's final drive nirvana. The motoring press ram it down our throats, advanced drivers tell us it's the best, blah, blah, blah.

But do you exploit this wonderful thing - do you slide your car around - do you adjust the attitude of your car in the corners? Have you got the skill to do all this? 

Most of us don't (or very infrequently) venture on to the track. This leaves us with the public highways. Does RWD therefore make even less sense?

So, how important is RWD to you and why?

loved the NA V8 soundtrack on my Previous GS430, kept up with most high powered BMW's without an M badge and when not in the mood was extremely smooth comfortable Luxury cruiser..  majority of the time, the benefits of it being RWD and having nearly 300bhp under the bonnet was not being utilised on a day to day basis.  switched down to a FWD 2.4 Accord which is half the litres and half the cylinders of the GS and its more fun being lighter all round, no torque steer,  and 7300rpm rev limit, with race cam switch at 6000rpm makes it much more  raw lively and fun FWD compared to the more powerful RWD 300bhp GS 430 and my Straight 6 RWD IS300.. 

I am not pro RWD like some on here and would be satisfied with either FWD or RWD cars so long as the setup is good and enjoyable to drive. ☺️

[rayaans]

45 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure if 320d drivers needs permission to speak here....

RWD is massively important for me, even without driving cars to the limit the balance is completely different, just say for little spirited driving, even within speed limits RWD feels so much better into the corners and out the corner. I once made mistake and got myself Passat CC, they tied to mimic RWD balance there by having wider tyres in the front (I believe it was 235 fronts, 225/215 rear) - in result what you get, car still understeers on throttle and snap-oversteers off throttle... in short balance was all over the place. On other FWD cars you get torque steer (especially in 200hp+), they always understeer and balance is mess.. completely not enjoyable to drive

So even without power (more so with the power) RWD is just about balance, joy, feel in the corners and control... well obviously unless you have FWD "which pushes from the back"!

I will make bold statement here and I am sure that is going to be massive explosion of insulted "snowflakes" - if driver doesn't feel the need for RWD, they they do not enjoy driving and they cannot qualify to call themselves petrolheads.. 

Yet I was sitting in my friends car, who is a massive petrol head and has owned maybe a handful of RWD and a lot more FWD or AWD vehicles. 

And his 400hp FWD  is much more entertaining than an RC-F or GS-F will ever be...

[FTBBCVoodoo]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure if 320d drivers needs permission to speak here....

RWD is massively important for me, even without driving cars to the limit the balance is completely different, just say for little spirited driving, even within speed limits RWD feels so much better into the corners and out the corner. I once made mistake and got myself Passat CC, they tied to mimic RWD balance there by having wider tyres in the front (I believe it was 235 fronts, 225/215 rear) - in result what you get, car still understeers on throttle and snap-oversteers off throttle... in short balance was all over the place. On other FWD cars you get torque steer (especially in 200hp+), they always understeer and balance is mess.. completely not enjoyable to drive

So even without power (more so with the power) RWD is just about balance, joy, feel in the corners and control... well obviously unless you have FWD "which pushes from the back"!

I will make bold statement here and I am sure that is going to be massive explosion of insulted "snowflakes" - if driver doesn't feel the need for RWD, they they do not enjoy driving and they cannot qualify to call themselves petrolheads.. 

Have you ever driven a DC2 Integra Type R?  One of the greatest drivers cars in the world and it's FWD.

It was more fun than my RWD S2000 which just wasn't a nice car to drive on the limit as opposed to my Integras (I had 3).  I had an AP1 S2000 which wasn't the best handling version though.

I personally prefer RWD but going FWD doesnt make you less of a petrolhead.  If you are pottering around in a MK1/2 GTi or a 1.9 205 GTi then you are probably more of a petrolhead than someone driving a BMW M4 "PCP Edition".

With the correct diff at the front as per RS275 Meganes, FK2/8 Type R's or the new I30N I flew around in recently then there is fun to be had with FWD.  I would certainly take a FWD Mégane RS275 Cup S over a 320d 😉

[FTBBCVoodoo]

37 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Yet I was sitting in my friends car, who is a massive petrol head and has owned maybe a handful of RWD and a lot more FWD or AWD vehicles. 

And his 400hp FWD  is much more entertaining than an RC-F or GS-F will ever be...

But not the ISF...  Good man 😉

Come on... Spill the beans...  What's the 400bhp FWD car.  I am putting money on a beefed up Seat....

[noby76]

2 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

Have you ever driven a DC2 Integra Type R?  One of the greatest drivers cars in the world and it's FWD.

It was more fun than my RWD S2000 which just wasn't a nice car to drive on the limit as opposed to my Integras (I had 3).  I had an AP1 S2000 which wasn't the best handling version though.

 

Yes aparantly the AP1 S2000 was 'deadly' in the hands of should i say 'wannabe ' RWD drivers and AP2 was tonned down to appeal to most..

[FTBBCVoodoo]

1 minute ago, noby76 said:

Yes aparantly the AP1 S2000 was 'deadly' in the hands of should i say 'wannabe ' RWD drivers and AP2 was tonned down to appeal to most..

Was my 1st venture into RWD.  Not my best choice.  Next up was a 350z.  Much better handling albeit slower and a tad heavier 😉

[noby76]

Just now, FTBBCVoodoo said:

Was my 1st venture into RWD.  Not my best choice.  Next up was a 350z.  Much better handling albeit slower and a tad heavier 😉

I would love a 370Z Nismo.. very rare cars on the roads

[mrfunex]

13 minutes ago, noby76 said:

Yes aparantly the AP1 S2000 was 'deadly' in the hands of should i say 'wannabe ' RWD drivers and AP2 was tonned down to appeal to most..

I think the main problem was that, being a small, racy Honda, people expected it to behave like a fast Civic, whereas it’s more like an Elise.

The AP1s came originally with Bridgestone tyres, which made the car very snappy at the limit. There were many changes throughout the ~10year life of the S2000, and it got progressively softer and more benign. I’ve got an early AP1, and with the right tyres, and with suspension properly set up, it’s a total hoot on road and track.

Back to the FWD/AWD/RWD debate, I suppose for the bulk of my driving I’m more after a nice soundtrack (not from the radio) than outright handling - the V8 fulfills that bit. It is nice when the TVD properly helps to fire the GSF out of slow corners though, the amount of grip and the delicacy of the handling surprises me for such a big car...

[Northern isf]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure if 320d drivers needs permission to speak here....

 

I will make bold statement here and I am sure that is going to be massive explosion of insulted "snowflakes" - if driver doesn't feel the need for RWD, they they do not enjoy driving and they cannot qualify to call themselves petrolheads.. 

I'm going to have to invent a new meme for this so here goes " do you even drive"? 

[Ben01]

I made a chart to easy explain my ideas "what is difference between drivetrains in all, but in the public road and safety context too". Scales are relative, but let's say, in my world and mind, the point the red FWD crosses "power axis" is about 200HP, where green AWD crosses x-asix is about 400HP.

[Ben01]

30 minutes ago, Northern isf said:

I'm going to have to invent a new meme for this so here goes " do you even drive"? 

These stickers were pretty popular a years ago:

[FTBBCVoodoo]

13 minutes ago, Ben01 said:

I made a chart to easy explain my ideas "what is difference between drivetrains in all, but in the public road and safety context too". Scales are relative, but let's say, in my world and mind, the point the red FWD crosses "power axis" is about 200HP, where green AWD crosses x-asix is about 400HP.

So the opposite of Fun is....  Danger.

Back to the drawing board (literally) for you 😉

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Yet I was sitting in my friends car, who is a massive petrol head and has owned maybe a handful of RWD and a lot more FWD or AWD vehicles. 

And his 400hp FWD  is much more entertaining than an RC-F or GS-F will ever be...

I guess that friend was Noby with his sleeper rocket ship Accord which "pushes from the rear"... that explains all!

@FTBBCVoodoo Never driven Integra and to be honest don't even want to try. As far as your statement goes "one specific Integra was better then one specific S2000" - it might well be true, but that would be more of an exception then a rule. Certainly, even most basic FWD family car nowadays handles better then say American muscle... so what? I understand that some very light FWD track cars with very sticky tyres in the front can handle very well, but that is not applicable to street cars.

As I said, for me RWD balance is important, I fell more comfortable with progressive oversteer, then with any sort of understeer... it is more fun, it looks better, it feels better and that is how the car should behave in the corner.