LS600H, my new car but problems since the first day.

[PCM]

So ... how are you thinking of progressing?

Whatever you do, I suggest sooner rather than later and based on sound legal guidance...

 

[Malc]

6 hours ago, xanavi22 said:

Am guessing they passed an MOT when it was not fit,

Thank you for the clarity here

This alone will possibly get the MOT station struck-off by the DVLA

I think you should be reporting this sad tale to Trading Standards forthwith and asking the garage, in writing, to refund all your money in total PLUS all your out of pocket expenses too.

Depends how you get on with asking them all this I would then seriously consider a Small Claims Court process ( take care about the max amount you can claim in this process though ) if they fail to settle very very promptly

I would ask Citizens advice Bureau or your own solicitor for some guidance here right now

It's a bugger !

Malc

[royoftherovers]

47 minutes ago, Malc said:

Thank you for the clarity here

This alone will possibly get the MOT station struck-off by the DVLA

I think you should be reporting this sad tale to Trading Standards forthwith and asking the garage, in writing, to refund all your money in total PLUS all your out of pocket expenses too.

Depends how you get on with asking them all this I would then seriously consider a Small Claims Court process ( take care about the max amount you can claim in this process though ) if they fail to settle very very promptly

I would ask Citizens advice Bureau or your own solicitor for some guidance here right now

It's a bugger !

Malc

The Purchaser was clearly mislead into thinking that he would lose his Warranty if he paid a reduced price.

The paperwork re Spares and Trailing is wholly irrelevant as the Trader was Statutorily bound to be responsible for dealing with problems which arose  within 6 months of sale.

It is not possible to escape one`s Statutory responsibilities unless one is released from them by Parliament.

There is sufficient evidence on this alone to pursue matters satisfactorily, but when one takes into account other factors such as fraudulent issue of Mot Certificate and fraudulent production of point of sale documentation, it is game, set and match to the Purchaser !

The purchaser is strongly advised to contact a Solicitor immediately for advice on best route to take. His Solicitors and any Court costs plus Damages can be recovered through the Courts.

[steve2006]

The MOT certificate I feel is valid...the fail items were dealt with resulting in a pass, the advisories are just that and although these issues need dealing with they do not affect an MOT pass.

Regarding the tyres, I would imagine the size fitted are 1 cheaper than the correct size and 2 a budget brand.

Many home insurance and motor policies have legal protection cover also which may cover any costs if you progress your claim against the dealer.

Given the comments by Lexus it confirms my suspicions regarding accident damage, from the receipts for mirrors and body work repairs it seems it was not put through on an insurance claim so no marker, this would probably have been a Cat C halving the book price of the car had insurance been involved.

[xanavi22]

2 hours ago, PCM said:

So ... how are you thinking of progressing?

Whatever you do, I suggest sooner rather than later and based on sound legal guidance...

 

This is what am thinking atm.

My V5C is not in yet plus do i trailer the car back to him or do i tell him to org his own trailer?

Do i ask for full refund of £9400 plus the £800 which i paid by lexus glasgow on full set of pads and disc?

I have just found alot of bad reviews on this company --_--!!

[Malc]

9 hours ago, xanavi22 said:

Am guessing they passed an MOT when it was not fit,

Take care coz even winning at court and a Judgement for monies doesn't mean to say that the guys actually have any money to pay you !

Taking the car back to them might leave you totally lost out financially

crooks abound and most have no assets and giving them your car might just line their pockets. Crooks don't usually play a fair game

just take great care in all you do going forward

Malc

 

[Bluesman]

15 hours ago, MLW said:

I am not sure. It will probably constitute part of the terms of the contract. Why would it not. It is so very strong a statement that one would be terrified to agree to the sale and leave under those conditions. It is a very clear statement. Where is the ambiguity?

As an economist. I have to ask the following questions.

How old is the car

What is its mileage

What did you pay for it?

Time will tell.

[MLW]

The preaching can come later, and I will be happy to preach. The issue now is getting your money back.

Any dealer has legal obligations he cannot avoid. That is what parliament set up. £9,400 seems about the market price, for a normal car,  and way way above a 'spares banger'. Ever a Rolls-Royce would not be that price for spares. Don't get any repairs done.

I would try 3 lines of attack.

1. Write a letter rejecting the sale on the grounds of an unfair contract, and ask for your money back. (Do you have a 14 day cooling off period? If you do, just cash this in and reject the sale). Send it by first class registered next day post and give him 3 days to reply or you will seek damages in the County Court. Add that if you do not hear from him in the said 3 days you will contact trading standard and ask for his business to be investigated. Also ask him how much VAT you paid on the car, as you will be contacting them if you do not get satisfaction, as you feel that the VAT arrangements were not what they should be. In my experience if he is iffy he will be terrified of the VAT . They make the mafia look soft. It once worked for me.

2. Contact trading standards at once and explain how you have been duped by his sharp practice, and a possible illegal and unfair contract. Ask for help in resolving the situation. Don't drive the car.

3. Keep records of everything. You could easily go to a small claims court. When the paperwork from the court arrives he may concede, that is the last fall back option. Or a judge looking at it all, will probably think you have been naive, but he is a crook.

After all this is over happy to preach about the pitfalls of buying a car.

Good luck.

[xanavi22]

6 hours ago, MLW said:

The preaching can come later, and I will be happy to preach. The issue now is getting your money back.

Any dealer has legal obligations he cannot avoid. That is what parliament set up. £9,400 seems about the market price, for a normal car,  and way way above a 'spares banger'. Ever a Rolls-Royce would not be that price for spares. Don't get any repairs done.

I would try 3 lines of attack.

1. Write a letter rejecting the sale on the grounds of an unfair contract, and ask for your money back. (Do you have a 14 day cooling off period? If you do, just cash this in and reject the sale). Send it by first class registered next day post and give him 3 days to reply or you will seek damages in the County Court. Add that if you do not hear from him in the said 3 days you will contact trading standard and ask for his business to be investigated. Also ask him how much VAT you paid on the car, as you will be contacting them if you do not get satisfaction, as you feel that the VAT arrangements were not what they should be. In my experience if he is iffy he will be terrified of the VAT . They make the mafia look soft. It once worked for me.

2. Contact trading standards at once and explain how you have been duped by his sharp practice, and a possible illegal and unfair contract. Ask for help in resolving the situation. Don't drive the car.

3. Keep records of everything. You could easily go to a small claims court. When the paperwork from the court arrives he may concede, that is the last fall back option. Or a judge looking at it all, will probably think you have been naive, but he is a crook.

After all this is over happy to preach about the pitfalls of buying a car.

Good luck.

I gave him his last chance to reply today but he has not, fast when putting a deposit down and coming for the car, ignored when u have paid fully n no F**** given.

Time to name and shame and will call trading standards 2moro to see what can be done, this company was called "Cheshire Motor Car Sales LTD"

On arrival the car was sitting for me in the showroom, staff was great and told me to have a look on my own and gave me the keys.

one of the staff took me for a test drive and then i drove halfway back, car felt fine and all good apart from the dash has (!) of checking tyre pressure (My knowledge was because the rear was running 235 instead of correct size 245 that the light was on as 1 of my friends R35 is very sensitive if used wrong width of tyre on. Warning light of pads needs attention which i knew about as to why i haggled from £10,495 to £9,400. (He didn't tell me this problem that i had to check from my phone app to get this information.

Driving back home about 100miles in the engine light comes on, started to make me think, front bumper, side skirts and door don't seems to be aligned right. then i mind MOT advise on nearside front tie bar/rod damaged and seriously weakened got me think more and more, then looking into the old receipts it adds up more this car has been in a accident, how big or small we don't know but i feel kinda disgusting to put my family in this car and unsure if this is safe to drive.

Some of the old receipts states on buying new wing mirrors, having a 4wheel alignment, link etc....i have also attached on pics to show you's.

[mr2lad]

I got discs and pads all around for my 600hl all oem for little over £300... fitted them myself tho, youve been had big time at £800 

[PCM]

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealership/cheshire-car-sales-dukinfield-cheshire-england

 

[steve2006]

Oh dear, now I’m fully convinced about this car.

[steve2006]

Just a thought Michael did you pay the balance in cash or on a card?

[harrylime]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:39 PM, MLW said:

This is really tricky. In my view, either you buy privately 'as seen' and you know you are on your own, relying on your 'car' judgement, and your experience. Remember when you buy such a private car, you are buying 50% the car and 50% the seller and paperwork. Fair enough, as you will get it cheaper, buying private, but there is little comeback.

Or, go to dealer and pay more, for a dealers full services. You seem to be half way. If the stamp on the contract says what it does, one normally would see bells ringing...... i.e. trouble. Did you pay the £20+ to get an HPI report, or run it through 'Check an old MOT history' on the web.

I know this sounds patronising, but he knows more about the car than you (asymmetric information), so you must protect yourself. It seems like you thought it was a bit 'iffy' and got a £1,000 off ( an unusually large sum). Big money. You took it almost on trade terms, i.e. taken as seen , no comeback. Why did you agree to that stamp? It rings trouble. I fear a small claims court would say it is clear on what terms you purchased.

By all means try to get the dealer to cough up, but I would not put my pension on it.

The increasing use of management speak like "asymmetric information" was one of the reasons I retired early. I couldn't put up with the bull**** any more, usually from people trying to convince others how intelligent and hip they were.. The seller will always know more about a car than the buyer. They have more time to evaluate it properly. The rest of your comments make complete sense, and I agree, this chap has the worst of all worlds. He's bought one of the most complex cars in the world, on the basis that it's for spares or repair. I've made a few mistakes buying cars, but nothing o that scale. I would have run a mile.I like to buy cars privately (almost impossible nowadays because the trade has the car market wrapped up in one big monopoly). You get the opportunity to speak to the owner, and it's a bit easier to judge how a car has been treated. Sadly, maybe one car in a few hundred may be for sale privately, usually at the same price as dealers charge

[Cotswold Pete]

4 hours ago, PCM said:

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealership/cheshire-car-sales-dukinfield-cheshire-england

 

Heck, seems like a lot of engine lights coming on once the car is a few miles off the forecourt.

Google reviews are either 5 star or 1 star, which I have never seen before.

seems like a lottery buying a car from them.

 

[royoftherovers]

9 minutes ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Heck, seems like a lot of engine lights coming on once the car is a few miles off the forecourt.

Google reviews are either 5 star or 1 star, which I have never seen before.

seems like a lottery buying a car from them.

 

In the context of the multiple bad reviews , I find it hard to believe that the good reviews are anything but false.

In a lottery, one has a chance of winning Pete, but with Cheshire Car Sales, I would not even think about buying a ticket !

The OP must pursue his complaint with the utmost vigour. He has received some sound advice and the game is his to lose.

[jpjsavage]

Pretty sure Dukinfield is in Tameside and not Cheshire either. Give us Cheshire folk a bad name.

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

[Malc]

good reviews can be manipulated,           eg from friends and relations etc

The bad reviews are doubtless genuine and a clear warning to those that bother to read them

Malc

[Tfp]

In the old days if someone got so clearly ripped of like this the punter would get some very scary friends together to go and see the dealer and politely encourage said dealer to refund the customer.

I miss the old days.

[The-Acre]

On 8/20/2018 at 3:18 PM, xanavi22 said:

I slight ticking sound coming from the engine, don't know if this is just normal but the car is pretty fine and smooth...

Hard to say from the video, but a ticking sound is normal if it has direct fuel injection.

[rayaans]

11 hours ago, xanavi22 said:

I gave him his last chance to reply today but he has not, fast when putting a deposit down and coming for the car, ignored when u have paid fully n no F**** given.

Time to name and shame and will call trading standards 2moro to see what can be done, this company was called "Cheshire Motor Car Sales LTD"

On arrival the car was sitting for me in the showroom, staff was great and told me to have a look on my own and gave me the keys.

one of the staff took me for a test drive and then i drove halfway back, car felt fine and all good apart from the dash has (!) of checking tyre pressure (My knowledge was because the rear was running 235 instead of correct size 245 that the light was on as 1 of my friends R35 is very sensitive if used wrong width of tyre on. Warning light of pads needs attention which i knew about as to why i haggled from £10,495 to £9,400. (He didn't tell me this problem that i had to check from my phone app to get this information.

Driving back home about 100miles in the engine light comes on, started to make me think, front bumper, side skirts and door don't seems to be aligned right. then i mind MOT advise on nearside front tie bar/rod damaged and seriously weakened got me think more and more, then looking into the old receipts it adds up more this car has been in a accident, how big or small we don't know but i feel kinda disgusting to put my family in this car and unsure if this is safe to drive.

Some of the old receipts states on buying new wing mirrors, having a 4wheel alignment, link etc....i have also attached on pics to show you's.

There is one massive issue with this - 

You have clearly signed an invoice saying "Sold as Spares/Repair and the vehicle needs to be trailered". 

This suggests that the vehicle is in non-roadworthy condition and he has flogged a trade sale.

So, in the court of law, you have a very weak case as the seller can say it was a trade sale and he had advised you that it was a non-roadworthy car and needs to be trailered off. You've signed this saying that you accept the conditions and therefore, the seller, although a crook, doesn't owe you anything.

I would take this as a learning point that you should have thoroughly checked the car beforehand and then flog it off in an auction.

[Cotswold Pete]

43 minutes ago, jpjsavage said:

Pretty sure Dukinfield is in Tameside and not Cheshire either. Give us Cheshire folk a bad name.
 

Yep, in 1974 Dukinfield was put under Tameside. 

Cheshire cars by name, but not by nature.  Maybe they are grinning like Cheshire cats they way they seem to get away with it, lets hope the battle can be won on this one.

[PCM]

On 8/21/2018 at 7:30 AM, PCM said:

So ... how are you thinking of progressing?

Whatever you do, I suggest sooner rather than later and based on sound legal guidance...

 

Which is why I say this, but I think an Auction disposal is a good Plan B. 

[royoftherovers]

30 minutes ago, rayaans said:

There is one massive issue with this - 

You have clearly signed an invoice saying "Sold as Spares/Repair and the vehicle needs to be trailered". 

This suggests that the vehicle is in non-roadworthy condition and he has flogged a trade sale.

So, in the court of law, you have a very weak case as the seller can say it was a trade sale and he had advised you that it was a non-roadworthy car and needs to be trailered off. You've signed this saying that you accept the conditions and therefore, the seller, although a crook, doesn't owe you anything.

I would take this as a learning point that you should have thoroughly checked the car beforehand and then flog it off in an auction.

The Buyer said that he drove home after purchase.

For that to have been legal, the car must have been Mot`d, Taxed and Insured (unless we have not been given all of the facts)

The Buyer presumably arranged for the vehicle to be Taxed and Insured and the Seller presumably arranged for the Certificate of Road Worthiness (M..O.T.)

A Court will compare the two documents (M.O.T. AND Sold as spares etc) and reach the view that one must prevail over the other.

No prizes awarded for guessing which one prevails and which one falls by the wayside.

[doog442]

I think I agree with rayaans here. If you agree to buy a vehicle under the terms of that stamp , I'm struggling to see how can you have any recourse. You agreed to purchase an unroadworthy  vehicle.

You agreed to trailer it away and buy it for spares and repairs. Civil courts deal in the balance of probabilities. If you both agreed it was for spares / repair on the balance of probabilities a court would assume it was unroadworthy at the point of sale as there is no evidence to prove otherwise. It might be roadworthy at the point of an MOT pass but 10 minutes after that MOT it might not be.

In relation to the receipt (and they would argue a degree of transparency in that they kept that documentation) , many Lexus have knocking noises from the suspension, it looks like the work done was to address that, I had similar with my IS200 as did many others.