LS600H, my new car but problems since the first day.

[xanavi22]

I recently sold my ISF to buy a LS600H.

I brought this car from down south and while driving back up half way the engine light came on.

The following day i have booked in for lexus to check whats up.

It came up with the code:

P0024 Camshaft position "B" - Timing over-advanced or system performance (Bank 2)

C2124 Transmitter ID 4 not received"

My main worries is the camshaft issue, anyone had this fault on there LS600H before?

Anyone know the last owner of this car? its a 2008 white LS600H from southern ireland, Reg (LF57NZN)

Michael.

 

[cruisermark]

If you bought the car from a dealer you can raise the issue with them first and foremost - if not then Lexus dealer is ur best bet as these cars are very small in numbers and complicated aswell

[PCM]

4 hours ago, cruisermark said:

If you bought the car from a dealer you can raise the issue with them first and foremost - if not then Lexus dealer is ur best bet as these cars are very small in numbers and complicated aswell

Agree.

Raise with the dealer - confirm in writing - in a nice way.

[jpjsavage]

Sorry to hear about these issues. As others have said, raise with the dealer ASAP as you have significant rights under consumer law etc. 

[steve2006]

Advanced cam timing could be as a result of a worn tensioner/timing chain slip on the cam gear, does the engine sound noisy at cold idle?

What is the present mileage?

As other members have suggested I would be seeking redress from the seller although if this was a private sale your options are severely limited compared to a dealer.

[talaipwros]

give it back, take your money back, do not take no for an answer

[talaipwros]

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

 

if you are within 30 days, get your money back

 

I expect that you bought it from a dealer as you are inquiring about  the identity of the previous owner

[xanavi22]

13 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Advanced cam timing could be as a result of a worn tensioner/timing chain slip on the cam gear, does the engine sound noisy at cold idle?

What is the present mileage?

As other members have suggested I would be seeking redress from the seller although if this was a private sale your options are severely limited compared to a dealer.

Cold start the engine is smooth, nothing bad at all but i start it up again 2moro and listen carefully, milage around 142,000 (Unsure how much was done in KM as its an import)

20 hours ago, cruisermark said:

If you bought the car from a dealer you can raise the issue with them first and foremost - if not then Lexus dealer is ur best bet as these cars are very small in numbers and complicated aswell

Lexus is going to charge big money.....

11 hours ago, talaipwros said:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

 

if you are within 30 days, get your money back

 

I expect that you bought it from a dealer as you are inquiring about  the identity of the previous owner

Yes brought buy a dealer and warranty wasn't given because i haggled £1000 from the asking price.

I got £1000 off due to i knew the pads all round needed done from previous MOT Failure, but when booked in with Lexus to fit and supply new pads they say all disc are needing done which set me back at £800 for disc and pads all round plus the diagnostic check.

Doubt i can do anything due to what the stamp was printed on the invoice he has given me.

found this online and it don't seem too bad, what you's people think?  https://www.autocodes.com/p0024_lexus.html

My thou are doing a oil change and fit a new VVT?

[mrdoofa]

When you buy from a dealer there is no such thing as “Sold as seen” or “No warranty implied or given” in the eyes of the law. When a dealer says “ Spares or repair” they are saying the vehicle is unroadworthy and not to be driven on public roads, you should only have signed that if you had no intention of driving it on the road and were getting it trailered away, the problem is that you’ve driven the car home when that dealer stamp has explicitly said it’s unroadworthy.

That doesn’t automatically mean the dealer is off the hook however, you see, you could claim that you didn’t understand fully what was meant by spares or repair or you didn’t fully read it until afterwards. Did the dealer allow you a test drive? If so they have knowingly let you drive an unroadworthy vehicle on public roads which they could be prosecuted for. As the dealer has stated it’s unroadworthy they should’ve also taken reasonable action to ensure you understood exactly what that meant and that you didn’t drive it away. Was the car clearly advertised as spares or repair? If not they can’t just add it on to get out of giving you a warranty because they’ve given you a discount on the car.

Get in touch with the dealer and trading standards and don’t go down without a fight as you still have rights, good luck and keep us informed!!!

[PCM]

Food for thought?

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/spares-or-repair-dodgy-trader-tricks/

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?298713-Spares-or-repair

 

[Newbie1]

Could be something up with the tensioner as mentioned although they're pretty reliable. Hopefully something less serious like a new cam shaft position sensor needed. When they start to fail the signal gets reduced causing issues like you've described. If the VVTi gear is like the old 1UZFE then it should be pretty reliable, but I've had to replace leaky VVTi gears on a 1JZ turbo at 60k miles. However, you probably wouldn't get the errors that you've described if the VVTi solenoid was sticky/filter blocked/gear assembly seal worn. I'd expect a specific VVTi OBD error.

[steve2006]

Has the car got a current MOT?

Sounds like a basic dealer “Get out of jail card” move here....so if you had paid another £1000.00 this car would have been warranted against every minor fault, niggle and totally safe and roadworthy but because you haggled the price down you have no warranty and a dangerous and defective vehicle not safe for road use.

It’s the exact same car except for the asking price, the price paid changes nothing, a stamp on a receipt changes nothing,there is no get out clause for no warranty.

OK you were aware of the brake pad/disc problem before purchase but certainly not the engine problem....so the vehicle is not fit for purpose and the rubber stamped declaration you signed is worthless.

Alittle bit out of date but 

https://www.dragon2000.co.uk/trade-sale-sold-as-seen/

[MLW]

This is really tricky. In my view, either you buy privately 'as seen' and you know you are on your own, relying on your 'car' judgement, and your experience. Remember when you buy such a private car, you are buying 50% the car and 50% the seller and paperwork. Fair enough, as you will get it cheaper, buying private, but there is little comeback.

Or, go to dealer and pay more, for a dealers full services. You seem to be half way. If the stamp on the contract says what it does, one normally would see bells ringing...... i.e. trouble. Did you pay the £20+ to get an HPI report, or run it through 'Check an old MOT history' on the web.

I know this sounds patronising, but he knows more about the car than you (asymmetric information), so you must protect yourself. It seems like you thought it was a bit 'iffy' and got a £1,000 off ( an unusually large sum). Big money. You took it almost on trade terms, i.e. taken as seen , no comeback. Why did you agree to that stamp? It rings trouble. I fear a small claims court would say it is clear on what terms you purchased.

By all means try to get the dealer to cough up, but I would not put my pension on it.

[Hadrian]

From "Which"

 

Quote......"You have fewer rights when buying a second-hand car you buy a used car from a private seller, and key parts of the Consumer Rights Act don't apply. For example, there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:

• accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
• not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if it’s been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.

If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase. The seller doesn't have to volunteer extra information so, if you don't ask questions, you may not have the full picture of the car's history or be aware of any potential faults...."

[xanavi22]

I slight ticking sound coming from the engine, don't know if this is just normal but the car is pretty fine and smooth...

[xanavi22]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:42 AM, steve2006 said:

Has the car got a current MOT?

Sounds like a basic dealer “Get out of jail card” move here....so if you had paid another £1000.00 this car would have been warranted against every minor fault, niggle and totally safe and roadworthy but because you haggled the price down you have no warranty and a dangerous and defective vehicle not safe for road use.

It’s the exact same car except for the asking price, the price paid changes nothing, a stamp on a receipt changes nothing,there is no get out clause for no warranty.

OK you were aware of the brake pad/disc problem before purchase but certainly not the engine problem....so the vehicle is not fit for purpose and the rubber stamped declaration you signed is worthless.

Alittle bit out of date but 

https://www.dragon2000.co.uk/trade-sale-sold-as-seen/

Yeah its got MOT till Jan 2019 but it looks like the garage just passed it with the issues and it wasn't fixed.

16 hours ago, MLW said:

This is really tricky. In my view, either you buy privately 'as seen' and you know you are on your own, relying on your 'car' judgement, and your experience. Remember when you buy such a private car, you are buying 50% the car and 50% the seller and paperwork. Fair enough, as you will get it cheaper, buying private, but there is little comeback.

Or, go to dealer and pay more, for a dealers full services. You seem to be half way. If the stamp on the contract says what it does, one normally would see bells ringing...... i.e. trouble. Did you pay the £20+ to get an HPI report, or run it through 'Check an old MOT history' on the web.

I know this sounds patronising, but he knows more about the car than you (asymmetric information), so you must protect yourself. It seems like you thought it was a bit 'iffy' and got a £1,000 off ( an unusually large sum). Big money. You took it almost on trade terms, i.e. taken as seen , no comeback. Why did you agree to that stamp? It rings trouble. I fear a small claims court would say it is clear on what terms you purchased.

By all means try to get the dealer to cough up, but I would not put my pension on it.

i had a hpi check from evans halshaw which they helped me to do but nothing wrong, maybe because its a import from southern ireland so nothing can be traced?

[Malc]

so are you saying that the garage that sold you the car actually passed the MOT with the dangerous Fails from the Irish MOT extant ?

OR are you saying that the car was sold to you WITH the dangerous Fails from the Irish MOT and therefore it was genuinely sold to you as Unroadworthy Condition ?

and therefore you should never have driven the car on UK roads until it had a proper MOT  ?  and all issues covered to get a proper UK MOT  ....  I'm assuming ( wrongly maybe ) that the Fails in the Irish MOT would also be fails in a UK MOT

I think some clarity is needed here 

Malc

[steve2006]

Mmmmm, Iam a little confused as well, the screen shot shows the vehicle as having UK plates so I would assume this is a recent UK MOT performed since purchase and registration or was the car being used on UK plates in Southern Ireland?

Looking at the suspension fails it makes me wonder if it hasn’t been involved in an accident in the past as well as a previous uncaring owner who didn’t even check the tyres.

[steve2006]

Just had a peek at the MOT history and the car must have had the fail items repaired/replaced/adjusted as it was retested and then passed on the same date. Advisories remained.

So it was MOTd Malcolm.

Still a bit strange in that it has UK plates but was “an import from Southern Ireland” looks like it was taken over there but kept on UK registration to avoid the massive tax on cars over there then resold and brought back to the UK with maybe an unrecorded accident whilst in Ireland.

Michael did Lexus take a look at the other suspension part remaining as an advisory on the MOT or any mention of accident damage when they did the brakes and are the rear tyres new?

 

[Bluesman]

On 8/18/2018 at 11:29 PM, xanavi22 said:

Cold start the engine is smooth, nothing bad at all but i start it up again 2moro and listen carefully, milage around 142,000 (Unsure how much was done in KM as its an import)

Lexus is going to charge big money.....

Yes brought buy a dealer and warranty wasn't given because i haggled £1000 from the asking price.

I got £1000 off due to i knew the pads all round needed done from previous MOT Failure, but when booked in with Lexus to fit and supply new pads they say all disc are needing done which set me back at £800 for disc and pads all round plus the diagnostic check.

Doubt i can do anything due to what the stamp was printed on the invoice he has given me.

found this online and it don't seem too bad, what you's people think?  https://www.autocodes.com/p0024_lexus.html

My thou are doing a oil change and fit a new VVT?

That is meaningless and no court will take it as evidence. He could write whatever he likes on the invoice its all nonsense as far as he and the courts are concerned.

[MLW]

29 minutes ago, Bluesman said:

That is meaningless and no court will take it as evidence. He could write whatever he likes on the invoice its all nonsense as far as he and the courts are concerned.

I am not sure. It will probably constitute part of the terms of the contract. Why would it not. It is so very strong a statement that one would be terrified to agree to the sale and leave under those conditions. It is a very clear statement. Where is the ambiguity?

As an economist. I have to ask the following questions.

How old is the car

What is its mileage

What did you pay for it?

[Gilbert Fudpucker]

Wow .. reading between the lines and looking at the attachments this has got to be the worst maintained LS600 ive seen , for me I would take this car back and tell them it is not fit for purpose , is the condition of the car commensurate with it's mileage , just wondering if it hasn't been clocked too

The LS600 is a fantastic car so hope you get things sorted , really sorry to hear of your experience but don't go spending any more of your hard earned cash on repairs before sorting with the dealer regardless of the discount you got

Pleased to see your still on the LS600 forum Jonathan .. 

[mrdoofa]

As I said, If the car wasn’t clearly advertised as spares or repair in the first place and it does have to be clearly stated not just in the small print then he doesn’t have a leg to stand on, he can’t suddenly decide it is spares or repair because he knocked £1,000 off, the courts would never accept this. The worst thing you could’ve done was signed for it under those conditions, you should really have walked away, no make that run away!!! Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course and it’s easy to point the finger and say now what could’ve been and what should’ve been. All you can do is plead ignorance in that you didn’t fully understand the terms and conditions in a heat of the moment situation. (That’s why most legal documents are required to have a 14 day cooling off period.)

Any car that is classed as spares or repair is also classed as unroadworthy regardless of the MOT and the dealer shouldn’t have let you test drive it or drive it home.

Id still get in touch with trading standards, citizens advice etc, this dealer is clearly crooked and you need to trailer the car back or have them trailer it back and get your money back ASAP.

[xanavi22]

On 8/19/2018 at 2:52 AM, mrdoofa said:

When you buy from a dealer there is no such thing as “Sold as seen” or “No warranty implied or given” in the eyes of the law. When a dealer says “ Spares or repair” they are saying the vehicle is unroadworthy and not to be driven on public roads, you should only have signed that if you had no intention of driving it on the road and were getting it trailered away, the problem is that you’ve driven the car home when that dealer stamp has explicitly said it’s unroadworthy.

That doesn’t automatically mean the dealer is off the hook however, you see, you could claim that you didn’t understand fully what was meant by spares or repair or you didn’t fully read it until afterwards. Did the dealer allow you a test drive? If so they have knowingly let you drive an unroadworthy vehicle on public roads which they could be prosecuted for. As the dealer has stated it’s unroadworthy they should’ve also taken reasonable action to ensure you understood exactly what that meant and that you didn’t drive it away. Was the car clearly advertised as spares or repair? If not they can’t just add it on to get out of giving you a warranty because they’ve given you a discount on the car.

Get in touch with the dealer and trading standards and don’t go down without a fight as you still have rights, good luck and keep us informed!!!

No, the car was listed for sale alongside of the other cars they had in the garage, i remember this was 1 of there most expensive cars they had on there site.

I still have in text that he can do it for £9400 but that will mean i won't get warranty with it.

On 8/19/2018 at 10:42 AM, steve2006 said:

Has the car got a current MOT?

Sounds like a basic dealer “Get out of jail card” move here....so if you had paid another £1000.00 this car would have been warranted against every minor fault, niggle and totally safe and roadworthy but because you haggled the price down you have no warranty and a dangerous and defective vehicle not safe for road use.

It’s the exact same car except for the asking price, the price paid changes nothing, a stamp on a receipt changes nothing,there is no get out clause for no warranty.

OK you were aware of the brake pad/disc problem before purchase but certainly not the engine problem....so the vehicle is not fit for purpose and the rubber stamped declaration you signed is worthless.

Alittle bit out of date but 

https://www.dragon2000.co.uk/trade-sale-sold-as-seen/

I did ask if there was any problems with the car as i said am traveling a distance to by this car so i will be buying over pics and info given as i won't want to waste my trip.

Nothing was said until i found out on my phone app on the MOT failure thats when i started to haggle cash off, but was not aware of the engine problem.

8 hours ago, Malc said:

so are you saying that the garage that sold you the car actually passed the MOT with the dangerous Fails from the Irish MOT extant ?

OR are you saying that the car was sold to you WITH the dangerous Fails from the Irish MOT and therefore it was genuinely sold to you as Unroadworthy Condition ?

and therefore you should never have driven the car on UK roads until it had a proper MOT  ?  and all issues covered to get a proper UK MOT  ....  I'm assuming ( wrongly maybe ) that the Fails in the Irish MOT would also be fails in a UK MOT

I think some clarity is needed here 

Malc

Am guessing they passed an MOT when it was not fit, because on the test drive the dash kept saying take your car to a dealer to check out and brake pads worn.

I did say to the guy that took me for a test drive that dash is flashing on brake pads renew but he said we would have fixed that which clearly i knew it was a lie but just said ok.

4 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Mmmmm, Iam a little confused as well, the screen shot shows the vehicle as having UK plates so I would assume this is a recent UK MOT performed since purchase and registration or was the car being used on UK plates in Southern Ireland?

Looking at the suspension fails it makes me wonder if it hasn’t been involved in an accident in the past as well as a previous uncaring owner who didn’t even check the tyres.

am having the feeling the car has been crashed before too, Glasgow Lexus says it looks like it has some big paint job before because the sticker is missing on the drive side where it tells u about tyre air pressure, front bumper and side skirts seems to be slightly out and not proper in, badges from the rear (LS600H and Lexus) are not there, looking at some of the receipts he replaced wing mirrors, repair front and rear bumper etc....

About the tyres for some strange reason 235 are on the rears where it should be 245 all round.

2 hours ago, MLW said:

I am not sure. It will probably constitute part of the terms of the contract. Why would it not. It is so very strong a statement that one would be terrified to agree to the sale and leave under those conditions. It is a very clear statement. Where is the ambiguity?

As an economist. I have to ask the following questions.

How old is the car

What is its mileage

What did you pay for it?

Car is a 57 plate so is that a early 2008 model?

milage is about 142000ish atm

paid £9400

1 hour ago, mrdoofa said:

As I said, If the car wasn’t clearly advertised as spares or repair in the first place and it does have to be clearly stated not just in the small print then he doesn’t have a leg to stand on, he can’t suddenly decide it is spares or repair because he knocked £1,000 off, the courts would never accept this. The worst thing you could’ve done was signed for it under those conditions, you should really have walked away, no make that run away!!! Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course and it’s easy to point the finger and say now what could’ve been and what should’ve been. All you can do is plead ignorance in that you didn’t fully understand the terms and conditions in a heat of the moment situation. (That’s why most legal documents are required to have a 14 day cooling off period.)

Any car that is classed as spares or repair is also classed as unroadworthy regardless of the MOT and the dealer shouldn’t have let you test drive it or drive it home.

Id still get in touch with trading standards, citizens advice etc, this dealer is clearly crooked and you need to trailer the car back or have them trailer it back and get your money back ASAP.

all i had in mind was the condition of the car was great, all it needs is pads are round n problem solved.

Sent the guy a message today but no reply, it feels as if he is trying to ignore the point and trying waste time? i get back to him 2moro on wanting a answer back back the night.

[mrdoofa]

It seems the dealer is trying to avoid speaking to you, he knows he’s told you a load of crap and is now trying to avoid his legal obligations. Trading standards will see straight through what they’ve done. The dealer knew there was more to this car than meets the eye such as being in an accident etc and gave you a substantial discount to get rid of it, telling you it has no warranty means that they think they can wash their hands of it now. However, hopefully they are about to find out it doesn’t work like that. Warranty or no warranty they still have a legal obligation to stand by what they’ve sold you.