this is some crazy prices !

[katana92_uk]

wow

 

[steveledzep]

Yes,  I spotted those too.....all from the same source 😮

[Ben01]

Some people are fundamentally optimistic. Or there is any problem with spouse, maybe ("YOU HAVE TO SELL THIS OLD BARGES!!! - Yes, of course, I have just put them on the market, my love" - (month later) - No offers, my love" 😄 )

BTW I have seen similar strange situation on lexus SC market, there is an SC300, twice overpriced and she pop up in classifieds every half a year. After a few years I recognise the same photos at first look 🤨

[Malc]

those 3 cars have been for sale on and off for years to my knowledge.  I think the owners are keeping them until they become classics, if they aren't already, and clearly love them so much they can't bear to part with them 

There's simply a price and a value for everything and these 3 cars haven't yet found either level

Malc

[Ben01]

38 minutes ago, Malc said:

these 3 cars haven't yet found either level

Yeah, but they start from such a level and the process could be so long, the weighter at the gate of scrapyard will show the real price at the sad end. I hope not! but I have seen this before, "I don't need my old ford, but it is MINE and MINT ford cosworth, so 5000 please". Two years later 500 and some boys made a nice cosworth-scrap-racer (still better than simple scrap, I think).

Only if you lock the car into dry pest free garage, the curves of tag price and market price will meet before the car detoriate to scrap. Maybe.

[moretea]

I disagree.  Quality LS400's have been changing hands for decent sums in recent years.  In fact, the green car in this months Modern Classic's magazine (the owner is a member here) bought his mk3 for around £8,000 a few years back. 

There was a very low mileage mk4 (circa 30,000 miles) that was sold for £12,995 last year.  Earlier this year I remember two mk3 models circa 50,000 miles that were £7-8,000.  Then there was the mk3 car advertised last week on Autotrader with 60,000 miles that was sold for £2,500 to a dealer and then re-appeared a few days later and sold right away again for £6,500.

People who want a good quality LS will pay for them it seems and why not when you consider they are one of the best cars produced.  Yes you can buy 150,000 mile drift cars with ten owners and needing a full respray for £2,000 or so.  Or, you can pay more and get one that is pristine.  Supply and demand in the end.

[rich1068]

1 hour ago, moretea said:

I disagree.  Quality LS400's have been changing hands for decent sums in recent years.  In fact, the green car in this months Modern Classic's magazine (the owner is a member here) bought his mk3 for around £8,000 a few years back. 

There was a very low mileage mk4 (circa 30,000 miles) that was sold for £12,995 last year.  Earlier this year I remember two mk3 models circa 50,000 miles that were £7-8,000.  Then there was the mk3 car advertised last week on Autotrader with 60,000 miles that was sold for £2,500 to a dealer and then re-appeared a few days later and sold right away again for £6,500.

People who want a good quality LS will pay for them it seems and why not when you consider they are one of the best cars produced.  Yes you can buy 150,000 mile drift cars with ten owners and needing a full respray for £2,000 or so.  Or, you can pay more and get one that is pristine.  Supply and demand in the end.

Exactly this. 

[Ben01]

1 hour ago, moretea said:

Yes you can buy 150,000 mile drift cars with ten owners and needing a full respray for £2,000 or so.  Or, you can pay more and get one that is pristine.

If you try to convince me 110k mile 1998 LS400 from UK is pristine and worth a 6 grands, sorry, you waste your time. In my mind she is much closer to 150k mediocre barge, than to mint 30k car for £13000.

Of course, LSes are good quality and reliable ships, and many of them worth a lot, for some people. But as Malcolm said: "those 3 cars have been for sale on and off for years". We all have a common bias to "winners", you remember £13k for elder LS, I remember Celsior 1995 with 10k mile and still factory foil on sills, and absurdal price tag - sold immediately, a few years go. But nobody remembers how long and how many "pristine" cars with a-bit-too-hi price were wandering on the market, loosing the battle of "supply and demand". Nobody told stories on forums and in the pubs about loosers. And from my experience, there is much more silent "loosers" than famous "winners" in the battle "my car is mint and worth 4 times median market price".

BTW I am too old and too childish for LS 🤪 but if I have £13k for pristine one, I would prefer a Celsior with 10k miles straight from Japan, than 30k example form UK. But this is another irrelevant story.

[moretea]

It depends on your mind-set Ben and what you value something to be.  We all have our opinions and beliefs which we are rightly entitled to have.

You even say yourself that your 'addicted to low cost old scrappy cars' which I can understand will affect your opinion on such things.  You even said 'I am too old to be serious, too poor to be proper lexus' owner 😉, too cheap to think about any car' but you have a GS430 as your daily pleasure (don't be hard on yourself!).

I suppose it’s like shopping at the supermarket in some ways.  Some folk will go to Aldi and some will go to Tesco, and then some go to M&S and Waitrose.  When it comes to filling the fridge and the cupboards we all have the same needs at the end of the day so why bother having the choice?  Food is food is it not?  If it’s cheap and does the job then surely there is no need for anything else?  I mean who can tell the difference between a packet of Kettle Chips and a bag of Space Raiders?

So, when watching the television in the morning while eating my simple bowl of corn flakes why would Charmin want to advertise their super quilted, ultra-strong, eco-friendly luxurious toilet roll?  Why would anyone consider such a thing when you can buy eight rolls of value toilet roll for less money - paper is paper right?  I am only going to flush it away anyway.

The same has to be said about car parts.  Why buy branded dealer supplied parts when we have offerings from Blueprint and the like?  Why buy expensive tyres from Michelin or performance tyres from Pirelli when we can buy 'budgets' made in a factory in North Korea?  In fact, why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Ford or even a Fiat?  I mean Lexus are just glorified, soulless tin made Toyota's are they not?  GASP!!!  No Ben, they are more than that.  The reason people buy Kettle Chips or make the odd shopping trip to Marks or prefer a LS400 over a Granada is because they probably like them and see the value.

The market caters for everyone and every budget.  Some markets are beyond that of average individuals such as those who like Italian sports cars or those who prefer a dwelling place with a higher council tax band.

Do you want a dream car or just any car?  Do you want the cheapest Lexus you can buy just because it’s cheap cheap cheap (forgetting all aspects of condition, history, mileage, expenditure, owners, rareness etc etc etc)?  Do you want to be able to say to fellow envious admirers 'it was only a grand' when they are looking at your new pride and joy?  Or, do you accept that some cars can be worth more because they are of a better pedigree than others?

The thing is Ben; a Lexus of any kind is a superb car.  Your GS430 is a great car (speaking from experience).  In fact, the LS400 is one of the best cars ever made.  Ever!

With all LS400 models now nearing 20 years old and older and with certain folks (many of whom are members on this very forum) holding on to them because they simply cannot find a replacement suitable enough that over delivers like an LS400 does, then prices will rise.  You have Porsche's and Ferrari's and old Merc's and BMW's (even old Fords and Fiats) going up in price and those of them that are a cut above the rest go for good and strong money.  The tat will even have a value, like an old banged up LS where the engine and gearbox alone is worth a grand removed or a shell for an old Escort. 

The LS400 is a legend and a quality UK supplied car (provenance is important) with low miles, good history, nice condition and decent expenditure will always do well.  Always.

A Celsior with 10k miles would be a super car to have.  But, it’s a Japanese import and that can affect things.  Some Celsiors don't have leather.  Some have air suspension.  Some have odd holes in the dash from sat nav units that are no use to most English speaking folks.  However, they all have a digital dash showing kilometres.  They all have unverifiable history (some have books in Japanese but are you really, really sure?) and they all have a certain stigma.  It makes no real difference to me personally as the condition of some of these imported cars is quite remarkable.

In closing, to simply say that the LS400's mentioned are crazy and 4 times market value without any justification is wrong in my humble opinion.  Crazy is someone bidding $17,752,500 for a second hand wrist watch at auction that simply tells the time.  Well, it is a Rolex and it was Paul Newman's.

Anyway, back to my cornflakes.

[Malc]

there's a market for everything ...  my bro-in-law bought a pristine Austin Cambridge estate ( 1960's) for £10k some months back, rare as hens teeth, beautiful car .......  just had to spend £8500 on a new engine and gearbox and welding to make it properly driveable .............  cost £18500 ....  realistic value right now about £8500 .  and it's probably going up for sale . he's past the fun stage and wants to recoup some of his dream car costs !

One or twoLls400s are possibly like this tbh

Being an ex car dealer I know people get rather carried away with their dream and spend fortunes on cars ..  the full respray etc costing £10k on a car only worth £5k even after all the love and affection/attention ..............full nut and bolt re-build, spending £100k on a car worth, well, say £85k................. reality eventually sinks in I'm afraid

BUT some are really good value, especially those where someone else has spent all the money and are available to buy on their resale 

Malc

[Ben01]

Gordon, we both told obvious stuff. And don't try on me ad persona arguments, I am too old for this.

Maybe different aproach: what is probability the guy sells this three LSes this month? And it would be lower or higher if price tags will be closer to market median for particular LS's range?

Because I dont say  "it is impossible to sell elder LS for arbitrary pile of money" what you argue. I think some day somebody will buy mk3 or mk4 for £20k. What I say is "it is highly unprobable the guy will sell three LS with prices like above this week". Or "this month". Or, as Malcolm advised, "this year(s)". And before anybody starts another obvious discussion, yes, obviously any seller could play this game as long as he/she likes and put any price tag on his/her property. But the longer game is, the "pristine" LSes will be less and less pristine every month and year (if they are not in dry pest free garage ("museum") all this time). And this is my point: the game could be very long, like lottery, and potentialy ruin really mint or pristine cars, just for high expectations of sellers, who heavily misjudge probablity of success. Or are just greedy.

And it is not in contradiction to your "but there was X car sold for Y money!". Of course there was and it will be. There are winners of lotto too. And it is wet dream of any "future classic" collector, to find this winning lottery ticket, the car in the lowest part of the price curve, next rocketing into the ceiling and rich fanatic customer (there is a reason a half of sellers of any low end elder nissans or fords etc. are babling in adverts about "youngtimers" and "future classics"). But for every lottery winner, there is a crowd of loosers. And in my mind, put on the market LS 1998 57k mile, with £10k price tag, is not a selling, is a lottery playing. Still, good luck and I hope they stay in nice garage all this time (BTW cost of nice dry garage should be included into car depreciation).

On the other hand, the pristine or not-so-pristine LS we discuss IS NOT like Paul Newman's or Neil Armstrong's watch. LS is luxury and reliable, but a mass produced common car, not unique item. And if it is simple second hand car, not the family car for million year, there is no emotional value, except any hopes and dreams of potential new owner.

OK, you right about Japanese import, it is probably more trouble than added value (I was in same position with yankees at the continent - in theory much cheaper and better one could be imported straight from California, than from let's say Germany, but from Germany it was much "easier").