Castrol Edge 5w-30 fully synthetic

[Surebet]

Can buy Castrol Edge at £24.50 for 4L, has anyone had experience of this oil. Is it worth a punt or is it false economy. 

[Ben01]

I personaly do not touch Castrol oils even with hazop gloves and long stick, but where is any economy in this story if there is Edge 4L at eBay at £21.99. And how much do you plan to save on oil? In my mind decent 5W30 oils are about £40 per 5l and  £15 saving means nothing, or did I miss something?

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, Surebet said:

Can buy Castrol Edge at £24.50 for 4L, has anyone had experience of this oil. Is it worth a punt or is it false economy. 

It's fine, although the 4l size is annoying as it isn't enough so you have to purchase two, or an additional expensive 1l.

[oilman]

It's a good oil. If it was as bad as mentioned above, Castrol would have closed down years ago. We sell a massive amount of it and never have any problems with it at all.

Cheers

Tim

[Ben01]

Tim, it is not valid argument, there are zylion of much worse manufacturers than Castrol, produce bad stuff, and still on the market for decades. And I did not say Castrol is worst of them, I personaly use Castrol once or twice, and it feels worse than other manufacturers on same price shelf, lets say Mobil, or slightly more expensive, like old Comma (I have no idea about Comma now). But probably I shall shut up, as last time I really care about what brand of oil I put in the car was a few cars and years ago (and it was Liquimolly, if anybody asks).

[is200 Newbie]

Been using the Castrol brand for years - Magnatec and now the start stop brand. I did use edge a while ago and I did not like it as it didn't seem to last long (went dirty quicker than the others) but overall the Castrol brand is good. Usually comes up on offer in ASDA for around £22.

Cant see what the issue is in using a good brand if its cheap...its the distributor that's taking the hit on the cost, nothing to do with the quality of the oil.?

Other users use different brands but again, as long as they are compatible and don't give issue then theres no problem, personal preference I guess. I do the oil changes twice a year and have done for years but will, when a tub of it is on offer, buy one so I have them there when it comes to changing the oil next time.

Castrol is on offer for £23 at the moment at ASDA

[Linas.P]

Not sure what is the problem with Castrol. If anything is one of the "best" brands around, if not best... certainly in top 10 of best brands money can buy.

Edge is great fully synthetic oil.. slightly overkill for IS250. Most of the time I use Magnatec and I agree the it gets dirty quite quickly, I tend to believe it is because it is darker colour from new (it contains metal nano particles), hence visually it looks darker much quicker then conventional oil. As well Magnatec in not real synthetic (it is hydro-cracked).

As far as mileage... it is not concern for me - the key to engine longevity are early oil changes  - I would not recommend to have any oil for over 1 year or 6k miles. If you doing a lot of miles say 12k in 6 month, then yes you can probably keep same oil for that specific mileage/time period. Otherwise oil needs changing at least annually and preferably twice a year. I do 12k miles/year and I do 2 oil changes.

[oilman]

1 hour ago, Ben01 said:

Tim, it is not valid argument, there are zylion of much worse manufacturers than Castrol, produce bad stuff, and still on the market for decades. And I did not say Castrol is worst of them, I personaly use Castrol once or twice, and it feels worse than other manufacturers on same price shelf, lets say Mobil, or slightly more expensive, like old Comma (I have no idea about Comma now). But probably I shall shut up, as last time I really care about what brand of oil I put in the car was a few cars and years ago (and it was Liquimolly, if anybody asks).

People always like to have a dig at the big boys and I've heard a lot of comments like yours, but with no evidence of why they are so poor. Castrol do a lot more R&N than most oil companies. To me, most of the Edge oils are best used for modern road cars, but there are plenty of people using it for harder use, like track and race use. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you don't like a product, fair enough, but it's only fair to back it up with reasons. I'm not sure what you mean by it feels worse, but fair enough, that's your opinion. My car came with a FSH with 140k on the clock, all of those using Castrol oils. I used it with Castrol for a year, then changed to Fuchs, Shell and Millers over the years since, just because I had cans of those there when the car was being serviced. I would have had no hesitation in using the Castrol if that is what I had at the time. I haven't noticed any difference in the feel of the car at any time with the different oils, all I can say is that now I've started using the Millers EE, I've gained 3mpg.

Cheers

Tim

[Ben01]

Sorry, it is not about rant on "big boys" - I mentioned and used Mobil, Comma when I used them a lot was Mobil subsidiary, I got Shell occasionally (in my feeling Shell's quality was closer to Castrol than Mobil). And many others and practicaly no-name stuff (about 18 cars last 18 years, you know). "Feel worse" is mostly about noise on start, and on cold and hot engine, sometimes on performance (but this was probably subjective as hell), and once or twice on old sealing damages (but this was Mobil One decades ago 😉 )

 But: everybody has own judgement, you are pro and happy with EE oil in a near new car, I am amateur and probably I will never put in my old barges anything like this. Or Castrol 😝 You care about +-3mpg, I don't care about improvement from 20 to 23mpg. Etc etc. This is beauty of modern world and relative infinity choices we have.

What really triggered me to touch the keyboard to answer OP in first place, was not about oil, but 1) OP was looking for advice 3) OP is looking at "cheap and good" oil 2) OP used words "false economy". My point of view is: there are better oils than Edge 5W30 for double the price, the best oils I ever heard for triple the price (and oils much worse than Castrol for half a price, but this is out of the scope). But if we talk about true view it is more like 25/45/75 ratio in pounds, not 100/200/300 ratio in percent. So we talk about 25 to 50 pounds saver. My guess is: OP's cost of IS250 2012 is minimum about 10-15 pounds per day, just to keep her in garage (depreciation+tax+insurance), without any fuel or maintenance or cost of garage... So what kind of economy we talk about, if for rather critical consumable for roughly yearly maintenance we are looking for cost savings equal two days' cost of ownership?

(I near convinced myself to buy a tank of Royal Purple. Maybe I'll jump outside to play with GS'es front upper arm, before I'll do something stupid.)

[J Henderson]

Both Lexus Edinburgh & Glasgow use Castrol oil for servicing - SLX, which I believe is the trade version of Edge. They also go with a 0w30 grade, not 5w30 for an IS250.

 

[Linas.P]

Generally, all Lexus dealerships uses Castrol for standard service, but some cheaper oil for essential maintenance. As for 0w30 .. that seems to be Scotland thing, colder weather I guess - IS250 will happily run on 5w30, 0w30 or even 0w20.

@Ben01 - I am a bit confused. What is you problem with Castrol oil then, based on your own post it seems that Castrol would be just about average oil for average price when it is priced @£40/4L. Which makes it good value for money priced @£23/4L. Is there any other objective issues not to choose Castrol then which you haven't mentioned or I am missing some point here? if not Castrol what are your suggestions then.

Finally, I am of an opinion that oil has improved so much over decade, that today even cheapest oil you can get would match the one used in F1 races back in 2005 when IS250 was made. As such any oil you can get would meet and exceed factory specifications and it is only matter of changing it in time. Long service intervals like 20k miles are stupid and designed to reduce fleet management costs, but definitely doesn't do any good for the engine no matter what oil you use. + we use retarded imperial units, whereas everyone else uses metric. IS250 has metric service interval of 10000km, which is ~6000 miles.... like most of the cars on standard oil. For 10k miles you already need "long life" oil because that is 60% over normal service interval and I guess Lexus in UK uses grade of oil which is suitable for extended service intervals.. but again we going back to the point that "long-life" oil and "extended-service intervals" are thing for fleet buyers and do no good for the cars.

[Ben01]

Linas, I 100% agree mediocre oil now matches superb oil 15yr ago. But still, are all oils on the market same? I dont think so. Again, my point is, why bother yourself with savings 25 pound yearly (means cost of one or fwo days of ownership of the car), if you could grab something slightly better. And argument "if it is good for Lexus is good for you" is invalid, they have a different prices, cost, scale than me or you, and I am too long inside industry (in broad sense) to trust any sentence "if X is good enough for Big Player Y, is good for his customer".

BTW oil lifetime span is improved too, thru last decade or two, in my mind. I would think is nothing wrong to change good oil every 10k or 12k miles (ok, maybe change good filter "twice", ie filter every 5-6k miles, oil 10-12k).

On the other hand, I did not know Lexus use Castrol as kind of OEM, so I did not know I just pee on the corner of our altar. Apologies, but I still stay with my opinion and I will try to avoid Castrol oils. I have month or two to oil change, we will see how smart and rich I'll feel when it will be my money, not OPs 😉

[Linas.P]

I mean all fine all to their own, my only questions is that you say you going to stay away from Castrol oil, but I didn't see any reason you mentioned anywhere. I am not even saying it is valid or invalid reason, but if you claim it is not good oil at least say why you think it is not good and what is better then.

As for mileage... I don't agree. Reason being any multi-grade oil degrades. Don't quote me on that as it is more general statement, but any say 0W30 or 5W30 starts as something like 20W20, then oil additives are added to improve the flow when cold to make it say 5W at 20C, other additives are added to control the flow when hot so that oil stays below W30 at ~100C. The oil doesn't degrade, the additives does and additives degrade not only with mileage but as well time ... that means after 6 month and 6k miles your once 5W30 becomes 10W25... until eventually getting back to 20W20 base oil grade. Hence I am saying 12k miles on single oil change in 6 month are probably ok, but 12k miles on single oil in 12 month are not.

Now again you mentioned yourself that in general costs of car ownership oil is very cheap, so why cheap out on it and keep it for 12 months?! And here I agree, however I don't consider Castrol as cheap option, but it becomes very good value for money when discounted. Secondly, you say maybe change filter twice but oil once, which again contradicts what you saying - if I am already changing filter and generally oil is minor thing in car ownership, why not to change the oil as well?!

As specifically for my IS250 with 180k miles my hydraulic valve lifters stars sticking and rattling around 7-8k miles if engine was flushed and around 5-6k miles if not, so for me oil change at those intervals are just necessary.. and probably goes back to what I said above - oil loses additives over time and by the time it is 6k miles cold flow is not sufficient to lubricate valve lifters to prevent them from sticking. However, I have heard this happening on much lower mileage cars as low as like 40-60k miles, so it is not car thing it is to do with oil degradation.

[Ben01]

As I said  Castrol (and couple of other oils) was significant noiser on my hi mileage cars, in different cars, temperatures, conditions, than other oils. This mostly define mine "worse-better" oils. End of my definition.

You could be right about additives, but as far as remember any chemical tests for modern oils (used on change, etc) I have seen, never much of additives was "gone" or "used" or viscosity very detoriated, for normal and better than normal oils, at last. Like, I have looked at any test for Millers EE mentioned above, just curious what is this as I never was interested in, first test I've seen for some audi claims for "used" EE oil still has plenty of zinc, phosporus, MoS2, etc. and viscosity detoriated only a bit. So I don't think additives disapears such fast as you suggest.

My sort-of idea for longer oil changes and shorthen the filter perios base on thoughts: 1) I have a feeling modern oils and additives have longer lifespan 2) if we compare in the same money I prefer better, probably more expensive, oil for longer, than worse, probable cheaper oil and change more often 3) I am not super-green, but I don't like idea "to waste" such agent as engine oil "unnecessary" BUT 4) there is no way even the best oil in the world handles with metal, ruber, sooth etc. particles and deposits grinding the engine, it is good filter job.

From my experience with hydraulic valves, high mileage mostly, if they are such a sensitive for oil detoriation, quality or flush, etc. they are some flaws in valves design (there is a lot possibilities, strange sealings, too small "cylinder", or too small oil flow, or flow in such manner valves or oil lines act as deposit filters for sooth, etc). And especially if it is same situation in same near-new engines. I feel your pain, and what can I say, maybe I should zip my mouth and don't advise about oils to ANY modern power-squized engines - last time I had hydraulic valves issues was 1991 Granada Scorpio 2.9 about 200k miles on the clock. I did not care about the rattling of couple of valves at all, but it was something like 50HP/l and 9:1, two valves/cylinder engine, not like more-less 80HP/l and 12:1 quad-valve in your IS. So who cares, the car was rattling a bit and flied next 50 or 60k miles.

But it is sort of revelant - because last time I tried Castrol it was exactly this ratling 2.9 ford, and on Castrol Edge all noise was worsen, not only valves rattling. And last "fancy" oil I ever tried was Liquimolly on the same ford too, and I did not believe how smooth and quiet the car immediately was. But this is old story, I kept this ford like 10 years, next garaged for years and scrapped year ago, all it was 3 lexuses and some other stuff ago, dont listen to me.

[Linas.P]

Most of oil testing companies recommends to send the oil which has ~6k miles for testing. That suggest for me, that over 6k miles oil would already have indicative amount of metal flakes or other contaminants, which would indicate wear on the engine (the sole reason why one would do oil testing). That as well goes to show that even good filter cannot clean the oil completely, as otherwise why ever change the oil - just change filter and it will clean the oil... right? 

1) I agree, it is not a matter of additives disappearing 100% - you would need to run the oil for probably 4years/40k miles (or more) for oil to go back to 20W20 grade. But we have multiple factors here... not only additives. like point 4.

2) I actually prefer exactly opposite (maybe wrongly), based on the point that even cheaper known brand oil (I mean as long as it is not fake rapeseed oil labelled 5W30) nowadays is better then the best oil back in the day Lexus designed 4GR-FSE.

3) That is probably my only concern, but I believe if it is "disposed" correctly, then the oil is not thrown "into river", but recycled for other purposes - lower grade lubricants, fuel etc.

4) That goes to the point 1 and other points and underpins the whole discussion... It is clear filter cannot 100% filter the oil, hence it actually does get dirtier and dirtier. IF filter could filter the oil back to transparent yellowish liquid oil changes would not be necessary for very long time.

so in short I justify the 6k miles oil changes on following: 5W30 looses some additives and does not properly protect the engine... I think key for me is 5W cold flow on start-up, not too much worried about W30 in city driving. Solution would be to get 0W30, but problem is that Lexus uses 5W30, so I have to change it after 6 month. If they would use 0W30 maybe it would last me whole year... BUT then we go into point 4 - there are enough contaminants in the oil after 6k miles that they effectively make oil and the filter dirty. That combined with degraded oil, justifies early oil changes to ensure maximum protection. Even from environmental point of view - replacing the engine early (which would basically mean scrapping the whole car) would have much more massive environmental impact then few litres of oil.

Your experience is correct - IS250 valve design is definitely flawed, I believe it is something with head flow on cold oil i.e. there is not enough flow, too little passages for the cold oil to flow to the head on the start-up and lubricate lifters. Solution would be to use maybe 0W oil improve cold flow as 5W seems to struggle, especially when it starts to deteriorate to whatever 6W, 8W or something else. I have used few different brands and grades oil with combination of flushing engine and I found that valve lifters starts rattling in the range of 5-7k miles, regardless of oil. Flush seems to add few thousand miles.

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Most of oil testing companies recommends to send the oil which has ~6k miles for testing.

Which ones? Ones in the US where oil changes intervals are normally 6k at the most anyway. Europe has had change intervals of 10k to 20k for years now with no issues with engine wear, in fact engines are far more reliable now than 20+ years ago when intervals were 6k. Mobil 1 when it first launched stated you could increase your intervals to 20k miles with no issues but as it went against service schedules they had to stop saying it.

[Ben01]

Linas, yeah, you rationale about oil changes is better than mine. I agree, even good filters are far away from perfect (on the other hand, it's one part I don't spare money, IMHO there are collosal differences in filters, their valves, etc - problem is, like half of aftermarket, with consistency of quality; brand/type bloody good half a year ago has realy bad quality today). Okay, scrap my stupid ideas, oils are too cheap to waste time on discussion even.

About eco factor, I dont believe in any claims of dispossal of used engine oil other than use as fuel, hopefully in proper boilers/ovens with hi temp and good filters. But as I said, I am not supergreen, it is minor factor for me.

BTW on flaws and rattling hydraulics, I have feeling sometimes it much more complex. I had not so much exeprience with troublesome hydro valves (only those 2.9 fords with tiny valves' "cylinder" and tiny oil flow, especially in "far end" of heads), but from all stories like yours, many friends with ford-cosworths, a few with infamous chrysler engines (if anybody think Toyota brought some flaws at valves, check the stories about 2.7 chryslers). All and all it looks like one thing is design of valve and oil distribution etc, but other important factor is how much sooth engine produce. Because lower viscosity helps, it is obvious, but flush helps, longlife oils help, hi-grade oils help, etc. means the deposit is much more problem than viscosity. And I don't know, it suggests the piston rings problems or design flaws too, valve sealing/bearing problems, etc. not only valve and oil lines flaws? But I am not familiar with enginees with compress. ratio higher than 10:1 and sqeezed hi HP from litre, so maybe I missed something here.

BTW BTW one thing is for sure, for valvetrain, hydro valves, etc. "bigger is better", bigger "acctuators", sealings, oil lines etc. I remember once or twice I though why my 2.9 ford rattling on valves and my oldie 4.0 from same family (ford explorer, they bored 2.9 up to 4.0) never rattle. My wrong presumtion was they have same valves and maybe different oil's lines, pump, or so. Nope, I understood when I have seen headless 4.0 - 2.9 has valve "cylinders" diameter like my finger, 4.0 got something closer to an inch... but this old design "for USA" or "like AK47" is gone, everything now is more compact, lighter, delicate, more HP/l or per kg... and often much more troublesome. Cost of progress, they say.

But enough maybe, it is babling from old grumpy guy, not about oils.

[Linas.P]

17 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Which ones? Ones in the US where oil changes intervals are normally 6k at the most anyway. Europe has had change intervals of 10k to 20k for years now with no issues with engine wear, in fact engines are far more reliable now than 20+ years ago when intervals were 6k. Mobil 1 when it first launched stated you could increase your intervals to 20k miles with no issues but as it went against service schedules they had to stop saying it.

The only one I know in UK is http://www.theoillab.co.uk/product-category/oil-testing/engine/

I cannot find where they recommend 6k miles, maybe this information was from youtube video or some oil lab documentation. I believe when they send you the vial with instruction they state that it is recommended for oil to be around 6k miles.

Europe mostly has 10 - 20k kilometers/year cycles not miles! Still you have to change that oil after 1 year even if you didn't reach the distance. Most "long life" oils are rated for 20k km extended cycles, there are some specific BMW/MB/VW engines which claims 30k km oil changes, but here we need to understand that it only applies to specific engine with specific long-life oil. Furthermore, it is again bit pointless because 1 year oil change still applies, so unless you covering 30k + km per year there are no advantage of long-life oil/compatible engine.

Equally, it is not like you drop long life oil in Lexus engine which was not designed to extended life oil and expect to run it for 30k km without any issues. Equally, it is not secret that in recent years most of German makes had issues engine wear... it is not uncommon for say BMW 320/520d to have engine rebuild after 2 years. And yes that is not only oil related, BMW had some plastic parts breaking and timing chains stretching which was simply poor design, but say excessive engine rings and bearings wear clearly has relation with lubrication.

Finally, horror stories about 30k km oil changes are not hard to come-by (just picked first on the list):

http://totalcarmagazine.com/tech/2013/11/18/30k_oil_change_interval_will_it_ruin_your_engine/

As far as IS250 goes, it is not Turbocharged like Mini, but specific output per liter is quite similarly high, it is as well direct injected which at least according to this article increases soot accumulation in oil passages - sort of consistent with my experience with engine flush.