Mark Levinson sound vs. old model

[BaransuIS250]

I drove the old shape 2008 SE-L with Mark Levinson and noticed how much more powerful the sound is compared to my current shape 2016 pre f/l Premier. Have they reduced the wattage / output on the current model v.s the 2005-2012 generation?

[Linas.P]

I assume that mk3 Premier comes with ML standard. Nothing definitive in terms of reduction of power - mk3 ML has 15 speaker (835w) over 14 in mk2 (315-415w deepening on model year).

https://www.marklevinson.com/in-lexus.html

Maybe you need to play around with set-up a little bit to get best sound. Good start woudl be to reset all settings first before doing anything, maybe previous owner had say Bass reduced (on way of resetting is to disconnect the Battery, not sure what other ways there are).

[BaransuIS250]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I assume that mk3 Premier comes with ML standard. Nothing definitive in terms of reduction of power - mk3 ML has 15 speaker (835w) over 14 in mk2 (315-415w deepening on model year).

https://www.marklevinson.com/in-lexus.html

Maybe you need to play around with set-up a little bit to get best sound. Good start woudl be to reset all settings first before doing anything, maybe previous owner had say Bass reduced (on way of resetting is to disconnect the battery, not sure what other ways there are).

Thanks Linas. I have had it from new and played around with all settings but it just lacks bite. It's also weird that the volume needs to be at 25 before you can sensibly hear anything.

[rayaans]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:10 AM, BaransuIS250 said:

Thanks Linas. I have had it from new and played around with all settings but it just lacks bite. It's also weird that the volume needs to be at 25 before you can sensibly hear anything.

Well thats not right anyway. At 25, the music in the IS would be borderline ear piercing in our IS.

The main things to remember - play with equaliser on all sources as they are individual to each one.

Additionally, if you're listening to radio, its going to sound bad whether you have ML or not. 

The best source for the sound system is USB or CD

Otherwise, could be that the amp has gone

[Rabbers]

19 hours ago, rayaans said:

 

....The best source for the sound system is USB or CD...

Latest Iphone and iPod generations plugged into the USB sockets deliver sound at least as good as memory sticks, a volume setting of 25 being

an acceptable minimum for most road surfaces at most speeds with the Pioneer 10-speaker system.   This was also my customary setting with

ML systems in previous cars, any significant difference in power (and sound quality) being appreciable at higher settings, say 40>, proportionately

to the greater number of speakers.   Not having played CDs for some years (thus making the slot redundant as far as I'm concerned), I am no

longer able to compare them as a direct source.  Although Bluetooth 5.0 in the Iphone 8 is a considerable improvement over previous generations

in terms of signal strength and clarity, I still find a setting of 30-35 necessary to bring the volume up to plugged-in source equivalence on this

device.

With specific regard to Dominic's comments about the power of ML sound, I seem to recall that some or maybe all the systems had an ambient-

sensitive automatic volume-control feature.  I frankly don't remember if it could be switched on or off in the audio settings, though I do remember 

considering it to be noticeable if not particularly effective.   Anyway, it could be the sort of thing that causes a broader problem if it is not working

properly.  Try driving with the windows down and listen for any volume changes.

[Mr Vlad]

I've had 2 Is300h premiums both with ML. Both cars were same age spec colour inside and out yet both were world's apart. The 2nd one I had was superb. ML was top shelf excellent. How that could have been so different I don't know. 

My current car is the RX450h with ML. It's an excellent system but I have to turn it up more than I had to in the IS. Might do you I've not got round to playing with any setting yet.

I've found that there's no difference in any of the sources used. CD is no better than Bluetooth in my findings. 

So what if you have to crank it up a bit more. That's progress I suppose. Maybe your system is akin to the power of a 2 stroke motorcycle and your previous car akin to a 4 strole bike.

So longs as it sounds to your liking live with it. 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

I've had 2 Is300h premiums both with ML. Both cars were same age spec colour inside and out yet both were world's apart. The 2nd one I had was superb. ML was top shelf excellent. How that could have been so different I don't know. 

My current car is the RX450h with ML. It's an excellent system but I have to turn it up more than I had to in the IS. Might do you I've not got round to playing with any setting yet.

I've found that there's no difference in any of the sources used. CD is no better than Bluetooth in my findings. 

So what if you have to crank it up a bit more. That's progress I suppose. Maybe your system is akin to the power of a 2 stroke motorcycle and your previous car akin to a 4 strole bike.

So longs as it sounds to your liking live with it. 

Still doesnt sound right though.

The standard system in the IS with Premium nav only needs to be at 10 for normal listening. 20+ would be borderline torture. However, I remember my 3RX with ML also needed to be much higher than the IS to be at the same volume. The new RX is more at around IS levels. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Still doesnt sound right though.

The standard system in the IS with Premium nav only needs to be at 10 for normal listening. 20+ would be borderline torture. However, I remember my 3RX with ML also needed to be much higher than the IS to be at the same volume. The new RX is more at around IS levels. 

I have mine about 35 most of the time, 45 is a little anti-social. 

Different systems so can't see why the number matters, maybe it's a finer adjustment? I don't think the number is related to reference DB like home amps is it?

 

[mhult]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:04 AM, BaransuIS250 said:

I drove the old shape 2008 SE-L with Mark Levinson and noticed how much more powerful the sound is compared to my current shape 2016 pre f/l Premier. Have they reduced the wattage / output on the current model v.s the 2005-2012 generation?

I had a second generation (2010) IS 250 Premier with ML for almost eight years. Since six months I am driving a new IS Premier with ML (manufactured in October 2017), and I also find that the audio quality is not quite as good as the previous generation.

What is most obvious to me is that the sound appears to come more from the center, and not so much from the sides. I am guessing that the overall "cheapening" (my subjective experience) of the interior compared to the second generation left less money for good, solid speaker enclosures in the front doors. Still, the ML processing does quite a good job with room correction of frequency response etcetera within the given physical means of the speakers, so the sound is by no means bad. It's just that I found the previous generation to be slightly better.

As for volume, I usually keep it between 10 and 25, with 10-15 being the appropriate level with the family in the car and some background music while still being able to have a conversation, and 15-25 when I am on my own and enjoying music. My sound source is usually an iPod nano.

[dutchie01]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:04 AM, BaransuIS250 said:

I drove the old shape 2008 SE-L with Mark Levinson and noticed how much more powerful the sound is compared to my current shape 2016 pre f/l Premier. Have they reduced the wattage / output on the current model v.s the 2005-2012 generation?

I had exactly thesame experience. The difference in quality is big. In the old car sound is juicy, deep, high, sharp just incredibly good even with the amp just open . The new car is much flatter and you have to crank it up to hear anything. I am no expert but the doors could play a role as well. Old car has heavy bankvault like doors and new one lighter ones. Anyway i would not recommend a ML system in the current IS

[Guest]

Looking at levinson site:

RC gets 6x90s 2x180s 2x25 2x170 1x200  = 1760 cm of speaker = 

IS gets 6x65 4x25 2x100 1x200 2x160 = 1210 cm of speaker

Big difference.

What it means I have no idea 😄

 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Comedian said:

I have mine about 35 most of the time, 45 is a little anti-social. 

Different systems so can't see why the number matters, maybe it's a finer adjustment? I don't think the number is related to reference DB like home amps is it?

 

The numbers should be the same, vehicle for vehicle more or less with the same source.

I do recall the IS loaners Ive had over the years and there isnt much difference between the 8 speaker in the IS with Premium navigation and the ML sound system and its certainly not worth the extra cash. 

[Mr Vlad]

The more speakers equals more sound. I like lots os speakers.

[Guest]

The numbers should be the same, vehicle for vehicle more or less with the same source.
I do recall the IS loaners Ive had over the years and there isnt much difference between the 8 speaker in the IS with Premium navigation and the ML sound system and its certainly not worth the extra cash. 

Why should they?

I would agree with 'worth it', my mk2 is 250 premium was very close to ML. Not heard the new ones.



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[Guest]

I just realised you meant is 3 to is 3 . But is 2 v 3 are different systems?

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[rayaans]

27 minutes ago, Comedian said:

I just realised you meant is 3 to is 3 . But is 2 v 3 are different systems?

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Yes, I meant sound systems in the same car should pretty much be the same. 

2 VS 3 are definitely different though.

[Linas.P]

14 hours ago, Comedian said:

Why should they?

I would agree with 'worth it', my mk2 is 250 premium was very close to ML. Not heard the new ones.

 

Same here, had both ML and non-ML and it was literally very close - 13 speakers vs. 14 speakers and wattage very similar. I agree ML could get more clarity from good source, but hardly any difference from compressed formats.

Going from mk2 to mk3 I found 10 speaker Premium sound system if not as good as 13 speaker in mk2, still adequate. Haven't noticed much difference between ML and non-ML again... but 6 speaker poverty line standard set-up in IS/RC was criminal an inappropriate to be in any car... never mind Lexus.

Interestingly, ML decided that larger IS (more cabin volume) can do with 15 speakers, but smaller RC needs 17... 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

Interestingly, ML decided that larger IS (more cabin volume) can do with 15 speakers, but smaller RC needs 17... 

I find this a little misleading too - there are not 15/17 locations. They are counting cones. I suppose it depends how "speaker" is defined. 

[NemesisUK]

All you ever wanted to know about Mark Levinson in the Lexus range

https://www.marklevinson.com/in-lexus.html

 

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

All you ever wanted to know about Mark Levinson in the Lexus range

https://www.marklevinson.com/in-lexus.html

Is this in anyway different from the link in my first reply ? 😄 

@Comedian - either way you look it is neither 15, nor 17 speakers, nor locations.... I guess I just repeated ML blurb because they state there are such number involved in the set-up somehow.

It seems RC has 12 locations and I tend to believe 16 cones, (rear 2 coaxial speakers with 3 cones each). Not sure how they count 17.

IS mk3 on the other hand has 14 locations, same as mk2, but all components rather then coaxial.. not sure where they get 15 speakers from.

They both mark Amplifier in schematics, bet that is hardly a "speaker".. some audiophile magic is going on there...

[J Henderson]

I find that some discs (and subsequent rips) are inherently louder than others. A few I've bought recently sound adequately loud at 30-35, but others (usually older ones), I can crank right up to 45 or more.

[Guest]

I find that some discs (and subsequent rips) are inherently louder than others. A few I've bought recently sound adequately loud at 30-35, but others (usually older ones), I can crank right up to 45 or more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

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[ColinBarber]

44 minutes ago, Comedian said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

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Indeed, the dynamic range of many modern recordings is very low and all pushed up to maximum levels. Slightly useful in vehicles as road noise masks low levels but it is to the detriment of the overall musical experience. 

[Steve44]

Having had Premium Audio in previous IS and now ML in current IS , I’ve found the volume levels have to be higher with ML and significantly higher to ‘hear’ all the recording. At lower volumes the details seem missing, only at higher levels does the sound quality finally meet expectations.

The biggest difference though is the quality of the bass. With ML the bass is very deep, solid and has no distortion or vibrations, it is a excellent. On the other hand the treble can be too sharp and brittle.

I also find it exposes the frailties of every recording. I need to be constantly twiddling with the equaliser to bring the best out of different tracks. It is brutal on everything but the very best mixed tracks.