2007 Ls460 oil viscousity options

[ColinBarber]

On 4/19/2020 at 9:53 PM, Britprius said:

As far as oil filters go I cannot understand why Toyota/Lexus still use the replacement paper element filter or the fact that they are more expensive than the metal can type of filter

Not sure I understand the word 'still' in this statement. Toyota were quite late to move to this type of filter, their engines in the 80,90 and early 00s all had the metal can type. Moving to the element filter was done for environmental reasons with a benefit that non-return and bypass valves are in the housing so even if the customer uses a cheap filter they still get protection. Change occurred around the same time that their engine designs moved from timing belts to chains.

Totally agree on the cost, rip off in the UK. OEM denso filters are around £2.50 in the US.

[Britprius]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Not sure I understand the word 'still' in this statement. Toyota were quite late to move to this type of filter, their engines in the 80,90 and early 00s all had the metal can type. Moving to the element filter was done for environmental reasons with a benefit that non-return and bypass valves are in the housing so even if the customer uses a cheap filter they still get protection. Change occurred around the same time that their engines designs moved from timing belts to chains.

Totally agree on the cost, rip off in the UK. OEM denso filters are around £2.50 in the US.

The word still comes from my age. I remember using these filters in the 1950's/60's  "the canister filter was not available then", and the paper element was the norm. At leased then the filter housing was invariably vertical, and could be removed without to much spillage, and with a simple spanner. 
With the horizontal orientation used by Toyota/Lexus oil spillage is almost inevitable, and requires special tools to remove.

John.

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, Britprius said:

With the horizontal orientation used by Toyota/Lexus oil spillage is almost inevitable, and requires special tools to remove.

Some are vertical. Like the 1.33 engine in my daughter's Yaris. Unfortunately the cap is at the bottom not the top - what a stupid design 

[Mihanicos]

When I had to choose a top quality fully synthetic oil for my car, I had to read a lot and ask the advice of professionals.

You have to choose the viscosity best suited for the climate the car is used. For my car, 0W20 is recommended for Europe. But for countries like Israel, 5W30 is recommended because of the higher ambient temperatures. For UAE countries, a much higher viscosity is recommended, because of the higher ambient temperatures.If you use a lower viscosity oil, it will give you better mileage but the engine may burn some oil and it may wear out sooner, depending on its tolerances and gaps designed by the manufacturer. Some manufacturers design their engines to burn some oil in order to gain mileage. However, if the engine is fitted with a catalytic converter, the burnt oil will eventually blog the catalytic converter which will lead to replacement. The cost involved is usually quite high.

Another important factor to always consider is the ACEA  C specification suitable for an engine in question. This is the compatibility of the oil with respect to the catalytic converter fitted by the manufacturer, in terms of  the amount of SAPS content  [Sulfated ash, Phosphorus and Sulfur] of the oil. Using the wrong ACEA C specification will lead to possible engine damage and blockade of the catalytic converter.

For Toyota and Lexus, C2 ACEA [ a minimum of High Temperature High Shear viscosity of 2.9 m Pa.s]  specification is recommended. Toyota, as far as I know, please correct me if I am wrong, does not state the C specification of their engine oils.

 

Chris.

[MLW]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:19 AM, Mihanicos said:

Another important factor to always consider is the ACEA  C specification suitable for an engine in question. This is the compatibility of the oil with respect to the catalytic converter fitted by the manufacturer, in terms of  the amount of SAPS content  [Sulfated ash, Phosphorus and Sulfur] of the oil. Using the wrong ACEA C specification will lead to possible engine damage and blockade of the catalytic converter.

For Toyota and Lexus, C2 ACEA [ a minimum of High Temperature High Shear viscosity of 2.9 m Pa.s]  specification is recommended. Toyota, as far as I know, please correct me if I am wrong, does not state the C specification of their engine oils.

 

This is interesting.

My 2002 owners manual states for the LS 430 5w-30 SAE SJ standard. This was the leading standard then. My local ASDA has 5w-30 at SN standard, much better. It is ACEA C3 which I have always used  (as with Shell Helix) as it is low sulphur. Recently as part of a service package I bought LEXUS genuine motor oil which is 5w-30 SL ACEA C5 standard. Lexus and Toyota never state the ACEA apart from 'low sulphur'. SN is the best, but is C3 to be preferred? This seems to be the GM standard.

[Mihanicos]

In 2016 ACEA introduced the C5 specification applicable to 0W20 and 5W20 engine oils in response to engine manufacturers specifications. These oils have a High Temperature High Shear [ HTHS ] viscosity lower than 2.9 mPa.s  so  C1 - C4 categories were unsuitable.

C5 requires a mid SAPS oil, same as C2 and C3 but an HTHS viscosity between 2.6 and 2.9 mPa.s.

Also the fuel economy for C5 must be better than 2% compare to C3.

It follows from the foregoing that C5 specification is a less viscous oil and that means is for engines with tighter tolerances. Hence the oil film between the engine gaps is thinner in order to be able to lubricate the moving parts adequately. For older engines the gaps are bigger, requiring a more viscous oil.

Using the oil selector of Eneos Europe, for a Lexus LS 460, 2007, the recommended oil is Eneos Hyper X,  API SN,  C2, C3.

For a Lexus LS 430 2002, Eneos Ultra SN, C3 is recommended. 

In the ACEA standards specification it is stated in each C specification that it may be unsuitable for some engines and it is recommended that the manufacturer's recommendations should be adhered to.

You can use the oil selector of other oil producers to find which oil they recommend for your car and you can compare and choose the best oil.

Chris.

 

[oilman]

Hi

With a lot of the cars involved, the C spec is irrelevant, to an extent. ACEA C specs are only relevant to the very latest catalytic converters, not the majority, they are mainly about the oil being compatible with DPFs. 

For a 2002 LS430, the required spec is API SH/SJ 5W-30, there is no mention of ACEA specifications. API SH/SJ 5W-30 is a pretty basic oil that would be exceeded by an ACEA C spec oil, but there is no need to have the C spec oil. I've just checked my data and I can't see any Lexus LS that is listed as needing an oil that meets an ACEA C spec.

A lot of suitable oils (0w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30) will meet various ACEA specifications, but they are not a necessity.

Cheers

Tim

[Mihanicos]

7 hours ago, Mihanicos said:

In 2016 ACEA introduced the C5 specification applicable to 0W20 and 5W20 engine oils in response to engine manufacturers specifications. These oils have a High Temperature High Shear [ HTHS ] viscosity lower than 2.9 mPa.s  so  C1 - C4 categories were unsuitable.

C5 requires a mid SAPS oil, same as C2 and C3 but an HTHS viscosity between 2.6 and 2.9 mPa.s.

Also the fuel economy for C5 must be better than 2% compare to C3.

It follows from the foregoing that C5 specification is a less viscous oil and that means is for engines with tighter tolerances. Hence the oil film between the engine gaps is thinner in order to be able to lubricate the moving parts adequately. For older engines the gaps are bigger, requiring a more viscous oil.

Using the oil selector of Eneos Europe, for a Lexus LS 460, 2007, the recommended oil is Eneos Hyper X,  API SN,  C2, C3.

For a Lexus LS 430 2002, Eneos Ultra SN, C3 is recommended. 

Both oils are 5W30  synthetic.

In the ACEA standards specification it is stated in each C specification that it may be unsuitable for some engines and it is recommended that the manufacturer's recommendations should be adhered to.

You can use the oil selector of other oil producers to find which oil they recommend for your car and you can compare and choose the best oil.

Chris.

 

 

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[MLW]

You can use the oil selector of other oil producers to find which oil they recommend for your car and you can compare and choose the best oil.

 

I have done this many times and out of 10 companies i usually get 12 different answers!