430 or 460?

[The-Acre]

Well, it seems that once you've had a V8, a V6, although very nice, is a bit like the second pressing of the grape. So although I won't be rushing or going too far out of my way, a V8 it eventually has to be. I've looked at the mot history on a few 460's and they do seem to suffer with control arm and bush failure. So having scared myself with the thought of an LS hybrid, it'll be a facelift 430 or a 460.  Any thoughts/opinions appreciated.

[cruisermark]

Phil I think this is very much a personal decision especially for us lexus enthusiasts - some of the members love their 460s whilst some (Pete) did not like it - I think  a few extended test drives are in order.

[The-Acre]

27 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

Phil I think this is very much a personal decision especially for us lexus enthusiasts - some of the members love their 460s whilst some (Pete) did not like it - I think  a few extended test drives are in order.

I think you're right. For me I'd be more likely drawn back to a 430, one of the later ones. I will try to find a 460 somewhere to help make the decision. The price for the late 430 seems not far off to the early 460. The problem as always is finding genuine ones.

[LS road runner]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

I think you're right. For me I'd be more likely drawn back to a 430, one of the later ones. I will try to find a 460 somewhere to help make the decision. The price for the late 430 seems not far off to the early 460. The problem as always is finding genuine ones.

 

My choice would be the 400 or 430 all day. This is my personal opinion others may disagree but I dont like the CVT gearbox which youll get in the 460 and you can feel the drive in a 430 where as the newer shape 600h I have feels far too comfortable to actually enjoy driving. There is no feedback from the car or the feel of the road. Excellent if its being used for chauffering but as a drivers car it would have to be the 430. Ive got the full range of LS from the facelift 400 to the 600h (460 shape)

mainly id say its the gearbox which sees me get into the 430 everyday. The noise from the V8 is excellent too! 

[stevet]

24 minutes ago, LS road runner said:

 

My choice would be the 400 or 430 all day. This is my personal opinion others may disagree but I dont like the CVT gearbox which youll get in the 460 and you can feel the drive in a 430 where as the newer shape 600h I have feels far too comfortable to actually enjoy driving. There is no feedback from the car or the feel of the road. Excellent if its being used for chauffering but as a drivers car it would have to be the 430. Ive got the full range of LS from the facelift 400 to the 600h (460 shape)

mainly id say its the gearbox which sees me get into the 430 everyday. The noise from the V8 is excellent too! 

Does the 460 have a CVT?

[The-Acre]

29 minutes ago, stevet said:

Does the 460 have a CVT?

I don't think it does, surely that's just the hybrid.

[LS road runner]

58 minutes ago, stevet said:

Does the 460 have a CVT?

yes

[LS road runner]

29 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I don't think it does, surely that's just the hybrid.

 

[stevet]

1 minute ago, LS road runner said:

 

They all say that in the adverts. My GS300 does too and that's not got CVT.

[The-Acre]

3 minutes ago, stevet said:

They all say that in the adverts. My GS300 does too and that's not got CVT.

Yes, I've noticed almost every GS300 advertised says CVT but they're not, which goes to show how little most sellers know about them.

[LS road runner]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

Yes, I've noticed almost every GS300 advertised says CVT but they're not, which goes to show how little most sellers know about them.

This isnt a selling website. Its BCA.

[royoftherovers]

The LS 460 did not have a CVT box.  I believe it had an 8 speed Torque Converter box.

[LS road runner]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

The LS 460 did not have a CVT box.  I believe it had an 8 speed Torque Converter box.

after some research - agree. 

 

All this time I was avoiding because of CVT

[mrdoofa]

If I was going to get another LS (which I probably will one day!!!) I’d probably go for either an LS460 or LS600h this time. The main reason especially after having the GS450h back again is I like the more modern feel and look of them. I can understand being a bit apprehensive about the hybrid option, my first one went horribly wrong but then again so did my first LS430!!! I just put that down to my bad luck now. I’ve had this hybrid for a few weeks now and I am absolutely smitten with it, the LS600h will have loads of power, a big V8, the instant torque of the electric motor and because of the hybrid system will probably give similar or better fuel figures than your current GS300.

Only the hybrid options in both the GS and LS have a CVT transmission which really suits them, the rest are standard automatics despite what most of the ads say!!!

[scythe]

The LS460 does indeed have an 8 speed box.  1st gear isn't normally selected by the box (unless your hill-starting, or rapidly use kick down when you're pulling off, but it does then slip almost imperceptibly through a range of gears.  Also, you can use the gear selector to choose a certain gear if you want some engine braking.  I've found that keeping the ECT switched to power always makes sure that it's in the right gear at the right time.

When I bought my 460 I still loved my 430, and wasn't sure I was doing the right thing, so I kept the 430 for a couple of months, and took each car out alternately.  The ride is different in both cars and in some ways I preferred the 430.  The 430's turning circle was also better, and the shorter wheelbase helped slow speed manouverablity as well .   There was more room in the back of the car.  The 460 was more responsive though, not just engine-wise but also in steering.

One day though, I decided I had to make a decision.  What made the final difference for me was the extra technology on the 460.  Adaptive cruise (I had an earlier 430) and lane keep assist both increased how long I could drive for before becoming tired, plus the extra safety stuff (precrash front and rear, knee airbag, waist airbags in the back) made it, in the end, an easy choice.  I kept the 460.

[The-Acre]

5 hours ago, mrdoofa said:

If I was going to get another LS (which I probably will one day!!!) I’d probably go for either an LS460 or LS600h this time. The main reason especially after having the GS450h back again is I like the more modern feel and look of them. I can understand being a bit apprehensive about the hybrid option, my first one went horribly wrong but then again so did my first LS430!!! I just put that down to my bad luck now. I’ve had this hybrid for a few weeks now and I am absolutely smitten with it, the LS600h will have loads of power, a big V8, the instant torque of the electric motor and because of the hybrid system will probably give similar or better fuel figures than your current GS300.

Only the hybrid options in both the GS and LS have a CVT transmission which really suits them, the rest are standard automatics despite what most of the ads say!!!

I think the main issue for me is something I've mentioned in the past, its that the 430 has that classic limo shape.  As rare as they are I saw one parked up when I was walking the dog yesterday, it was absolutely immaculate, showroom condition.  I did wipe my saliva and fingerprints off it though as a courtesy to the owner!

[Spacewagon52]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

I think the main issue for me is something I've mentioned in the past, its that the 430 has that classic limo shape. 

A garage near me has the LS 430 for sale - I just had to go in and take a look!  A quick scan seemed to show an immaculate car with 80,000 on the clock. The colour combination was the same as mine. It came with a personal plate M15 *** something. It was top price for a 2005 model (£6,000). Was I tempted? Yes and no ........... the car looked lovely but better the devil you know! The worrying part is always, will it be a lemon? As mrdoofa was not put off with his experience, it shows how appealing the cars are to own.

[Tulpen]

I had an LS400 for 15 years then, 6 years ago, went for an LS460. I cannot comment on the 430 or 600 as I have never driven either.

The first thing to say about the 460 is that it's an LS. That, in itself, means a lot. It does have lots of goodies on it ……...but a couple of them (the self-park for instance) I never use. I do like the automatic parking brake and the, many, programmable features.

I can't really comment on the power because I didn't use all the power on the 400 and, certainly, haven't done so on the 460. I want to keep this car for a long time and, therefore, I look after it. Let's just say the power is 'sufficient'. It certainly upsets the odd Golf/Corsa/Seat driver who annoys me at traffic lights :) 

The 460 has a timing chain, not a belt, and does not have the oil cooler/radiator configuration as the 430 does. They do have air suspension and, according to the US forum, this does cause problems. I have done 40,000 miles in mine - it is my daily ride - and the car has a total of 80,000 miles on it. I get the annual service done at my local Lexus agent here, in Holland, the prices are reasonable.  Up to this point, I have had no problems with the suspension and the service manager says they have changed one set of shocks on a 460...……...at 210,000 miles.  I would add a word of caution here: I live in Holland, the roads here are great. I don't know how long the suspension would last on those awful road surfaces you have in the UK. I come 'home' twice a year and am appalled at the road conditions.

The discs in my satnav are 6 years out of date and I thought I would have to spend a fortune to get them updated. I hate to think of sticking a TomTom on the dash. Imagine my surprise when the Lexus garage told me that they just update the discs I already have. It takes two hours (time for coffee, biccies and a drool over the new cars) and costs 128 euros (£110).

A good reason for using a Lexus garage is for the many computer updates issued by Lexus. You can always tell when there has been an ECU update; it takes the car a couple of days to re-adjust to your personal driving style.

At the end of the day it is up to personal choice. Best of luck.

[The-Acre]

1 hour ago, Tulpen said:

I had an LS400 for 15 years then, 6 years ago, went for an LS460. I cannot comment on the 430 or 600 as I have never driven either.

The first thing to say about the 460 is that it's an LS. That, in itself, means a lot. It does have lots of goodies on it ……...but a couple of them (the self-park for instance) I never use. I do like the automatic parking brake and the, many, programmable features.

I can't really comment on the power because I didn't use all the power on the 400 and, certainly, haven't done so on the 460. I want to keep this car for a long time and, therefore, I look after it. Let's just say the power is 'sufficient'. It certainly upsets the odd Golf/Corsa/Seat driver who annoys me at traffic lights :) 

The 460 has a timing chain, not a belt, and does not have the oil cooler/radiator configuration as the 430 does. They do have air suspension and, according to the US forum, this does cause problems. I have done 40,000 miles in mine - it is my daily ride - and the car has a total of 80,000 miles on it. I get the annual service done at my local Lexus agent here, in Holland, the prices are reasonable.  Up to this point, I have had no problems with the suspension and the service manager says they have changed one set of shocks on a 460...……...at 210,000 miles.  I would add a word of caution here: I live in Holland, the roads here are great. I don't know how long the suspension would last on those awful road surfaces you have in the UK. I come 'home' twice a year and am appalled at the road conditions.

The discs in my satnav are 6 years out of date and I thought I would have to spend a fortune to get them updated. I hate to think of sticking a TomTom on the dash. Imagine my surprise when the Lexus garage told me that they just update the discs I already have. It takes two hours (time for coffee, biccies and a drool over the new cars) and costs 128 euros (£110).

A good reason for using a Lexus garage is for the many computer updates issued by Lexus. You can always tell when there has been an ECU update; it takes the car a couple of days to re-adjust to your personal driving style.

At the end of the day it is up to personal choice. Best of luck.

I agree about the roads.  Having recently driven through 7 European countries I can confirm ours are by far the worst.

[The-Acre]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

A garage near me has the LS 430 for sale - I just had to go in and take a look!  A quick scan seemed to show an immaculate car with 80,000 on the clock. The colour combination was the same as mine. It came with a personal plate M15 *** something. It was top price for a 2005 model (£6,000). Was I tempted? Yes and no ........... the car looked lovely but better the devil you know! The worrying part is always, will it be a lemon? As mrdoofa was not put off with his experience, it shows how appealing the cars are to own.

Just out of interest, do they have a website with the car on, or any more info?

[Spacewagon52]

Here is their website:-

Worth checking the MOT history.

 

http://www.adamsonsmotors.co.uk/usedcars/

 

[The-Acre]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Here is their website:-

Worth checking the MOT history.

 

http://www.adamsonsmotors.co.uk/usedcars/

 

Thanks, David.

Interesting how it's been reduced and yet "still awaiting photos" I guess it is a bit overpriced, although I'd happily pay that for a really good example.

[sorcerer]

4 hours ago, The-Acre said:

I agree about the roads.  Having recently driven through 7 European countries I can confirm ours are by far the worst.

Did you get to Cesky Krumlov Phil? I know from previous posts you were thinking of it so I'm just curious if you did or not.

[The-Acre]

2 hours ago, sorcerer said:

Did you get to Cesky Krumlov Phil? I know from previous posts you were thinking of it so I'm just curious if you did or not.

Hi John,

I'm afraid we didn't on this trip, we simply ran out of time. It would have meant only a day and a half in both Salzburg and Vienna, which even with three days in each wasn't enough really.  I'm thinking of maybe doing it again next year with a different route so it's a possibility.  We did go to Berchtesgaden in Bavaria as we were so close, just for kaffee und kuchen!

[The-Acre]

10 hours ago, The-Acre said:

I think the main issue for me is something I've mentioned in the past, its that the 430 has that classic limo shape.  As rare as they are I saw one parked up when I was walking the dog yesterday, it was absolutely immaculate, showroom condition.  I did wipe my saliva and fingerprints off it though as a courtesy to the owner!

More dribbling today! Walking the dog again and there was the same LS430.  It was outside a little upholsterers having the leather seats worked on, so obviously I had to talk to him.  It turns out to be a car from Brighton, the upholsterer told me he renovates leather car seats which is well worth knowing.  He'd done a great job and the car (silver) was mint.  Naturally I told him to let me know if the owner wants to sell!