Is Future uncertain

[Jaystar77]

What have I just read..

Mind.

Blown.

[darrude]

I think it's safe to say, that there are some of us that will appreciate and look for a rwd car and some that don't care or realise. I remember reading something years ago that the majority of BMW 1 series didn't know their cars were RWD.

Back to the more interesting topic, 3rd order rotational inertial memory, or 'rotopathy'.

Shortly after the Korean war, the Communist North realised much like the 'memory' effect of water for medicine used in homeopathy, certain steel alloy combinations exhibited the same characteristics, but only when spun, basically they had a short term memory to revert to the pervious level of homoeostasis.  

Back in the 70's a communist sympathiser by the name Tom Ogle, in colusion with the North successfully implemented the new technology in the oglemobile (please Google this, I'm not making it up), an old American Galxyee car and achieved over 100mpg.  To cover his tracks, he successfully convinced the leading scientists at the time that this was done by pre heating the fuel and running the car on vapours,a perfect rouse to protect the technology. 

Unfortunately, he was executed for his invention (again I ask you to Google this so you know I'm not making it up), by 'big oil'.  

So why am I an telling you this now?  What noby had hit in is this phenomena, although present in all materials, some are more so than others.  There is currently a new secret cold war to develop the tech. Unfortunately, the key mineral and knowledge holders are only found in North Korea.  Why else do you think trump is talking to a communist dictator, ignoring massive human rights issues.  Its not to admire glorious leaders number 7 hair cut I'll tell you that!

If you want to know, then please PM me for my anonymous bit coin address so you can invest in tomorrow.

http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=787

Ps, I have been drinking today!

[Martin F]

3 hours ago, noby76 said:

Martin!! I am not here to be your teacher if you need to know how inertia works i suggest you get searching on google... 

Yes, but those articles won't have your unique translation of the principles. 

[noby76]

so  Martin, what you are essentially saying is by the engine generating torque which is then transferred to pull the front wheels in a FWD which then results in a secondary or an indirect rotational force to be applied to the rear tyres, resulting in it gaining acceleration. thus assisting to move the vehicle by carrying out a push is wrong? now prove me wrong if you believe the tyres at the rear of a fwd is not assisting to push the weight of the car forward once enough secondary rotational force has been generated at the rear tyres as a result of the front wheels kick starting the pull from torque generated from the engine.

so what you guys are essentially saying is by using a drive shaft to to apply 200NM of primary or direct rotational force at the rear tyres of a RWD car, results in a Push of the rear end of the car to get it to travel to say 50mph but a similar secondary or an indirect rotational force which results in the rear tyres of a FWD car to also carry out an exact directional travel to 50mph  from the same 200NM of primary or direct rotational force applied to the front wheels to kick start the initial moving of the car will not result the rear tyres of a FWD to assist in moving the car to 50mph by doing a  Push?? 

so a primary or direct  rotational force which gets the rear tyres of a RWD car to move to 50mph is a pushing of the rear end of the car when in motion but

a secondary or an indirect rotational force which gets the rear tyres of a FWD car to move to 50mph is not a pushing of the rear end of the car when in motion?? if so, Prove me wrong
 

[st4]

What a great thread!!!


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[Big Rat]

@noby76 John I'm happy to prove you wrong and it's based on the following experience of driving and qualifications so the experience I have is based on the following.........

Driving licences held - Car - Motorcyle- LGV1 -PSV- Tracked Vehicle all for 43 years.

My driving history is that I was a class 1 advanced level  police driver and instructor and pursuit specialist as well as in a civilian capacity taught vehicle escape and evasion for HM Forces and personal protection agencies.

I have driven a huge array of all types of cars not just performance vehicles whether they be RWD/FWD/ALWD, prior to returning to the building trade I worked for Michelin in tyre development as a test driver.

So from all this im hoping you will agree I probably know what I'm talking about, and have others have said it's the principles that you have are wrong pretty much all vehicles will squat at the rear to a lesser or greater degree when moving forward depending on the amount of accelerative force being applied but if you are suggesting that any amount of drive is being applied by a FWD vehicle during this is time is hopelessly off the mark.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Big Rat

 

 

[Guest]

Unless we are witnessing a future Nobel prize winner and we have all missed this free energy he has discovered. Elon will be cross too.

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[noby76]

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

 

all vehicles will squat at the rear to a lesser or greater degree when moving forward depending on the amount of acceleration force being applied

 

 

And this is what i have been saying all along have you not bothered to read my previous posts?? this started of by me commenting more or less  what you said above that fwd cars also squat during acceleration and comedian said i was talking rubbish.

and if you read my posts i never instigated or mentioned any form of drive is directly being applied to the rear tyres of a fwd as there is no drive shaft connected to it but the result of the front wheels pulling the car during acceleration causes an indirect rotational force at the rears as they do not have any choice but to go again resulting in a push of the rear end of the car during motion. in other words assisting pushing the rear end of the car due to gaining enough moving momentum.

[Ala Larj]

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

@noby76all vehicles will squat at the rear to a lesser or greater degree when moving forward depending on the amount of accelerative force being applied 

 

 

Not true I'm afraid. Have you ever driven a Honda Jazz with a CVT gearbox? Not a sign of a squat to either end! The only squat I've experienced is similar to sitting on a toilet especially when trying to enter a roundabout quickly! 😉

[Guest]

And this is what i have been saying all along have you not bothered to read my previous posts?? this started of by me commenting more or less  what you said above that fwd cars also squat during acceleration and comedian said i was talking rubbish.
and if you read my posts i never instigated or mentioned any form of drive is directly being applied to the rear tyres of a fwd as there is no drive shaft connected to it but the result of the front wheels pulling the car during acceleration causes an indirect rotational force at the rears as they do not have any choice but to go again resulting in a push of the rear end of the car during motion. in other words assisting pushing the rear end of the car due to gaining enough moving momentum.

Now that's not true. I said it was nonsense you said 'all vehicles push from the rear'

Please be accurate.

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[noby76]

comedian!! take it how ever you want  again prove me wrong if you disagree fwd cars squat under acceleration or prove me wrong if momentum generated from secondary or indirect rotational force from the rear tyre of a fwd  as a result of the fronts pulling will not result in the rear tyres assist in pushing the rear end of a FWD car. 

i think you keep confusing the generation of moving momentum or  indirect rotational force at the rear tyres of FWD car to mean having a physical drive shaft link to it.  which is not what I am saying.. read my posts very carefully. 

[Guest]

I don't need to prove you wrong. You're making the claim so the burden of proof lies with you. As one of the countrie's cutting edge physicists you should know this!

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[noby76]

5 minutes ago, Comedian said:

I don't need to prove you wrong. 

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so i suggest you keep it zipped next time.. and yes i never banked physics classes.

[Guest]

You're making a fool of yourself.

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[J Henderson]

All cars will squat under acceleration. Even AWD ones will do it. The fact that they do is irrelevant though. It doesn't change the fact that it (squatting) doesn't push a FWD car forwards. If anything it hinders performance since it's taking potential grip and traction away from the driven wheels.

[Big Rat]

Think this is one of those threads where one person digs there heels in, bit like defending an indefensible position.......so all I can say further is........

Big Rat

[Guest]

Just looking though my book collection and found these. No mention of nobby's theory of undriven driving wheels.



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[Big Rat]

Perhaps we could discuss this vehicle next...........it could take a while.....   

Big Rat

[Guest]

Perhaps we could discuss this vehicle next...........it could take a while.....   

Big Rat

Eu regs after lobbying by Michelin? Grip saves lives?

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[Ala Larj]

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

Think this is one of those threads where one person digs there heels in, bit like defending an indefensible position.......so all I can say further is........

Big Rat

Sorry, but I'm right about the Honda Jazz!

[noby76]

2 hours ago, Comedian said:

You're making a fool of yourself.

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you are the one's making big fools of yourselves... and if you still dont believe momentum from the rear tyres do not assist in pushing the rear end of a fwd car forwards, get us a lab, 4 independent wheels rollers, and a FWD car and a proof will be made right before your eyes that momentum from rear wheels pushes the rear end of a Fwd car.

[Ala Larj]

13 minutes ago, noby76 said:

you are the one's making big fools of yourselves... and if you still dont believe momentum from the rear tyres do not assist in pushing the rear end of a fwd car forwards, get us a lab, 4 independent wheels rollers, and a FWD car and a proof will be made right before your eyes that momentum from rear wheels pushes the rear end of a Fwd car.

I do like a good scientific debate. If nothing else this thread proves that parallel universes DO exist!

[NemesisUK]

50 minutes ago, noby76 said:

you are the one's making big fools of yourselves... and if you still dont believe momentum from the rear tyres do not assist in pushing the rear end of a fwd car forwards, get us a lab, 4 independent wheels rollers, and a FWD car and a proof will be made right before your eyes that momentum from rear wheels pushes the rear end of a Fwd car.

Yes the rear wheels have stored rotation energy but their contribution is insignificant.

The physics and real world experience can be quite different... but no less real.

[noby76]

7 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Yes the rear wheels have stored rotation energy but their contribution is insignificant.

The physics and real world experience can be quite different... but no less real.

Ohh so we have now gone from guys saying rear wheels on a FWD does not assist in pushing the cars rear end of a car to now a CONFORMATION and i quote "Yes the rear wheels have stored rotation energy"  

don't make a fool of your self if you think enough of that stored rotational energy does not get depleted to assist in pushing a FWD cars rear end.  the clue is in the words rotational force.. 

[darrude]

Noby76, I'd love to know how a 15Kg wheel, directly linked and held to solid chassis with the moment of inertia within the driving diameter could provide any push on a vehicle?  

There are only 2 ways this could happen, the moment of inertia is outside of the driving diameter (google / you tube how a flywheel works),

Or the the wheel is spinning faster than the car is going, as this can't happen as the wheel is mechanically linked to the car and fictionally held to the ground so the only possible way would be with a kinetic energy storage flywheel and clutch system (which I am sure Volvo have actually designed for rear axle mounting).

Any 'Push' from interia without a flywheel would only be giving during speed reduction, and even then on a car with say 30Kg of rotating mass vs 1600kg total mass would be insignificant.  I really hope this makes sense.

Ps, I'm a mechanical engineer, and have worked in Aerospace and automotive design engineering my entire career.