Is Future uncertain

[darrude]

This just came up in my News feed.....

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/247133/lexus-is-gs-future-uncertain/

 

I thought it was only the GS that was at risk.  Not sure I'd upgrade to the ES as it's FWD.

[Farqui]

With the apparent EV revolution looming the motor industry is rethinking is long term strategies, look how Ford have reacted.

I was surprised at the mention of can'g the IS but this suggests otherwise; https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/06/13/is-the-future-of-the-lexus-is-lexus-gs-in-doubt/

[rayaans]

3 minutes ago, darrude said:

This just came up in my News feed.....

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/247133/lexus-is-gs-future-uncertain/

 

I thought it was only the GS that was at risk.  Not sure I'd upgrade to the ES as it's FWD.

GS has been removed from European lineup. It is still going in the States. I don't get the whole RWD obsession, most people certainly dont utilise the capabilities of RWD in everyday driving and from initial reviews, the ES seems to handle well with torque steer only present on the 350 when flooring from a standstill, so the 300h will likely not suffer from this.

The IS is RWD, the RX is essentially FWD. Do i enjoy driving the IS more than the RX? Not really.

Additionally, dont think the IS will be at risk. Its a good seller both in the states and in europe.

[darrude]

32 minutes ago, rayaans said:

GS has been removed from European lineup. It is still going in the States. I don't get the whole RWD obsession, most people certainly dont utilise the capabilities of RWD in everyday driving and from initial reviews, the ES seems to handle well with torque steer only present on the 350 when flooring from a standstill, so the 300h will likely not suffer from this.

The IS is RWD, the RX is essentially FWD. Do i enjoy driving the IS more than the RX? Not really.

Additionally, dont think the IS will be at risk. Its a good seller both in the states and in europe.

You can't really compare an IS to an RX.  Compare a Audi A4 to a BMW 3 series.  It's not really about the driven wheels, but the balance the layout offers.  Hard braking, and corning on a car with balanced layout give a completely different feel.   

hopefully the IS will last, although I would like the latest gen RX as my next car (even though it is FWD)... 😉

[noby76]

52 minutes ago, darrude said:

 Hard braking, and corning on a car with balanced layout give a completely different feel.   

 

and What you are talking about depends mainly on the overall weight of the car and suspension type being used. put it simple a FWD saloon with factory tuned sport suspension weighing 1400kg will give a better driving feel in terms of braking and cornering than a RWD saloon with a factory comfort tuned suspension weighing in at 1600kg. I have owned both Gen 1 IS300 and also  GS430 and can tell you my current 2.4  FWD Accord brakes and corners better than both RWD Lexus's i owned i put this mainly due to the lighter front end of the Accord. 

 of course there are exceptions to this example and I am not going to start another RWD vs FWD debate but all i will say is, technology has closed the RWD advantage and if the car in question is not a very high BHP performance saloon or 2 door sports car, the benefits of RWD in this day and age is very small for day to day driving and the rare occasional blast.  and given the changing climate and road conditions we have in the UK, FWD is "King" for all conditions here be it dry, rain, snow or sleet

[Ala Larj]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

GS has been removed from European lineup. It is still going in the States. I don't get the whole RWD obsession, most people certainly dont utilise the capabilities of RWD in everyday driving and from initial reviews, the ES seems to handle well with torque steer only present on the 350 when flooring from a standstill, so the 300h will likely not suffer from this.

The IS is RWD, the RX is essentially FWD. Do i enjoy driving the IS more than the RX? Not really.

Additionally, dont think the IS will be at risk. Its a good seller both in the states and in europe.

Cue an objective Linas response! 

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, darrude said:

You can't really compare an IS to an RX.  Compare a Audi A4 to a BMW 3 series.  It's not really about the driven wheels, but the balance the layout offers.  Hard braking, and corning on a car with balanced layout give a completely different feel.   

hopefully the IS will last, although I would like the latest gen RX as my next car (even though it is FWD)... 😉

Maybe, but I dont think the "feel" plays a huge role when you're pootling around in an IS300h. Maybe if you're impersonating a lunatic BMW driver.....

But yes, I seriously doubt it'll be removed. The IS is a strong seller. If the IS goes, I don't see any reason to have an RC, LS or LC in the lineup!

[J Henderson]

You don't really need to drive fast to appreciate the appeal of RWD. I "feel" it every time I accelerate out of a slow corner and experience that natural-feeling push from the rear wheels. It's one of those small things that makes driving more of a pleasure, much like using a manual gearbox that has a nice mechanical action.

 

[st4]

You don't really need to drive fast to appreciate the appeal of RWD. I "feel" it every time I accelerate out of a slow corner and experience that natural-feeling push from the rear wheels. It's one of those small things that makes driving more of a pleasure, much like using a manual gearbox that has a nice mechanical action.
 

Agree. There’s a “rightness” to a north south mounted engine driving the rear wheels which no transverse front drive car can hope to match.

My next one will be an IS to replace the GS not an ES


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[noby76]

1 hour ago, J Henderson said:

 I "feel" it every time I accelerate out of a slow corner and experience that natural-feeling push from the rear wheels.

this feeling is not unique to your car or RWD cars.... infact all cars will distribute a higher percentage of weight to their rear wheels resulting in a push from the rear when accelerating from a stop or exiting out of a slow corner..   next time you at traffic lights or exiting out of a corner watch very closely at all the FWD cars in front and see if the rear of their cars lifts up during acceleration or remains down until reasonable speed has been reached..

[Guest]

this feeling is not unique to your car or RWD cars.... infact all cars will distribute a higher percentage of weight to their rear wheels resulting in a push from the rear when accelerating from a stop or exiting out of a slow corner..   next time you at traffic lights or exiting out of a corner watch very closely at all the FWD cars in front and see if the rear of their cars lifts up during acceleration or remains down until reasonable speed has been reached..

Nonsense.


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[J Henderson]

Noby76, you're not suggesting that undriven wheels will push a car when accelerating? A FWD car squatting under acceleration is just weight transfer.

 

[noby76]

2 minutes ago, Comedian said:

 

 

Nonsense.


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care to go into details why you would think weight is never transferred to the rear of any moving car be it FWD or RWD at standstill or slow corner exit? 

[noby76]

1 minute ago, J Henderson said:

Noby76, you're not suggesting that undriven wheels will push a car when accelerating? A FWD car squatting under acceleration is just weight transfer.

 

are you saying a RWD squatting under acceleration is not also weight transfer? you guys need physics classes serioulsy

[Guest]

care to go into details why you would think weight is never transferred to the rear of any moving car be it FWD or RWD at standstill or slow corner exit? 

Talking nonsense again.




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[noby76]

2 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Talking nonsense again.




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i think we can now clearly see you for who you are..one of those who like to pretend they know it all but Chicken out when given the opportunity... no need to spam if you aint got nothing beneficial or educational to say "Big Man"

[Guest]

I don't know it all. I do know this one though.

You could simply Google the evidence to prove yourself correct. Good luck :)

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[noby76]

i dont need googles evidence i have owned rwd and fwd cars in my almost 20 years of driving that's enough years and evidence to know all fwd and RWD will sqaut when acclerating from standstill or exiting a slow corner. ability for the front tyres to maintain enough contact patch/ grip with the road in FWD under hard acceleration will depend on how sticky the tyres are but this is a difference topic..

the topic we are solely talking about is do both FWD and RWD cars squat when moving from a dead stop or leaving a slow corner and i have made my position clear..  3 spams later and you cant even explain why you object ??  

[Guest]

infact all cars will distribute a higher percentage of weight to their rear wheels resulting in a push from the rear when accelerating from a stop or exiting out of a slow corner..  

Here you go. You said (effectively) that front wheel drive cars will push from the rear.

Nonsense.

The weight transfer is true, obvious and undeniable. The push is not.

A rear wheel drive takes advantage of the weight transfer, a front wheel drive does not.



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[noby76]

45 minutes ago, Comedian said:

 

 

Here you go. You said (effectively) that front wheel drive cars will push from the rear.

Nonsense.

The weight transfer is true, obvious and undeniable. The push is not.

A rear wheel drive takes advantage of the weight transfer, a front wheel drive does not.



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this is where you have deviated.. the talk was about if a RWD and FWD will squat in other words bias weight towards the rear of the vehicle from a standstill acceleration or moving out of a slow corner, i said yes they do... you said it was nonsense 3 posts from you later and your very post above confirms i was right. 

and i quote "The weight transfer is true, obvious and undeniable" 

we were not talking about how the vehicle was propelled once the squat has been completed. its obvious a RWD will push and FWD will pull. this was not the question. 

so we can now confirm a squat under acceleration is not just a special RWD characteristics as being hailed here.  will a RWD take advantage after the squat has been accomplished whilst the vehicle is in motion? will depend on some factors mainly tyre choice, tyre condition, suspension type etc... 

[Guest]

Now you don't know how tyres work either.

I haven't deviated one iota.

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[noby76]

I do know how tryes work and can tell you as an example, a budget crappy worn out tyre on your 470bhp RWD RCF will deem it useless in putting its power down compared to a 470bhp FWD Accord with good grippy tyres from standstill and slow corner exit . 

the propelling push from a RWD will be only be advantageous or come in handy considering the tyres which is the sole contact between the car and the road are in good condition. 

so the fact that a car is just RWD does not automaticall make it advantageous in having the ability to accelerate from standstill or exit slow corners as you keep hailing here . one needs good tyres and a good suspension setup to go with it as well.  a RWD with less grip at the rear will just be as crappy as a FWD with less grip in front... 

comedian! the secrect is GRIP and not just down to how the vehicle is propelled.

[Guest]

So how is the grip generated ?

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[Guest]

I'll say one thing though. The is250 v6 is a crap example of a rwd car and many fwd are much better. But there is a reason F1 cars are rwd. And motorbikes. Separation of steering and driving force is the biggy.

Rwd won't fix a rubbish chassis and the is250 may actually have been better as fwd.

300hp is pushing the limits of fwd so power is also a factor. 470 bhp fwd?

What is the highest powered fwd car?

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[noby76]

22 minutes ago, Comedian said:

So how is the grip generated ?

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There are soo many factors which can  aid in generation of grip... and not just fixed on how the vehicle is being propelled.

e.g. the over all weight of the car, the suspension type being used, the type of tyre being used, the condition of the tyre, the air density PSI of the tyre, the weather condition, the type of tarmac being accelerated from, how warm the tyres are...the factors are countless comedian and not just how the vehicle is being propelled as you keep thinking. 

and as you say the IS250 can be FWD and will still be fine for whatever is asked of it...  and there are soo many custom built 500+bhp FWD cars out there taking on exotic cars like lambos, ferraris, etc as RCF wont stand a chance against those FWD's and they beat those exotics fair and square in a rolling straight line acceleration so not sure why you ask such a question...