New ULEZ zone = death of IS250 in London

[mk_lon]

Hey Guys,

I wonder if you could help me. The already anti car London councils are plotting again. This time the introduction of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) in London. In Apr 2019 you will be charged £12.50 a day, 24 Hours a day, 365days a year to drive into central london. In 2021 this will be extended to greater london, basicly screwing everyone who doesnt have a small engine or a hybrid etc etc. 

It states that cars that meet the euro 4 standards are exempt from the charge which I believe the IS250 auto meets. Yet when I put my reg in the vehichle checker it says I have to pay !!!!!

Any of you guys want to check - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/vrm-checker-ulez

 Apparently you can email them and appeal (I have) if you think they are wrong..... Any advice, thoughts?? I love my IS250 and dont want to sell it. 

[Farqui]

Yes...Parkers lists the IS250 as Euro4, ref; https://www.parkers.co.uk/lexus/is/saloon-2005/250-4d/specs/

Presuming you live in the ULEZ, can't residents apply for a 100% rebate? 

[Linas.P]

The checker is incorrect, I have used it like a year ago and it said my car will be compliant, now it says it is no longer compliant. That is not true, IS250 is compliant to Euro4, so I guess just bug in their system. I does not impact IS200d either, but it does impact IS220d...

Quote

 Generally speaking, ULEZ-compliant petrol cars are those registered after 2005.

 

[Linas.P]

Or... we actually checking in wrong place. The existing ULEZ is the so called "congestion charge zone" and it is correct to state that IS250 has to pay congestion charge already, which is £12.50 even today. However, the extended ULEZ and congestion surcharge will not apply for IS250 (or other Euro 4+ cars). What I found stupid is that taxis (arguably the most polluting and poorly maintained cars) are excempt, they should have been the ones to start with.. 

IS250 is firmly compliant to Euro 4 and even meets Euro 5/6 requirements except NMHC and PM is not measured on V5C.

Euro 4 emissions standards (petrol) CO: 1.0g/km THC: 0.10g/km NOx: 0.08g/km

 

[johnatg]

According to the RAC, there is no website (as of Nov 2017) giving a comprehensive and correct listing of cars by registration number showing their Euro standard. Cars first registered after Jan 1 2006 had to be Euro 4 compliant (the standard became optional in 2005) - some registered before will have been. All IS250s are Euro 4 (at least) compliant. Quite how the authorities will administer this is beyond me if there is no definitive reference.

[JamesIS220]

I take it a 2006 IS 220d wouldn't be ULEZ exempt as diesel?  Why aren't they targeting planes, trains and industry more. They have more clout than the easy prey motorist! 

Not that I have ever been to London, but sure in the near future, Birmingham will do something similar. I'm sure if all towns and citys have a charge we won't get a reduced road tax. 

I liked the French system where you pay a one off charge on engine CV during your ownership. If I remember correctly you got a discount if car was over 10 years old. In 2003 had a 1986 740GLE estate 2.3

James

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, JamesIS220 said:

They have more clout than the easy prey motorist! 

That is because society wants actions.... whatever bloody thing that means... you know to fight climate change.

Planes, trains and industry have strong lobby behind it so they are inconvenient targets, but some scapegoats are needed to kill off blood-thirst for action... yep you guest it right - individual car drivers who all in all contribute ~2.4% of pollution (2.1% diesel and 0.3% petrol) are exactly suitable target to "solve" the problem (as you said easy targets). Obviously, there are no issues with consumerism i.e. cheap clothing which we throw away after single use or cheap Chinese electrical goods and toys which keeps braking and we throw them to landfills.. no that is not a problem - problem is motorists... well you know ... just because! 

[mk_lon]

Hi Guys, thank you for this. I thought it didn't sound right. 

I checked the site again and it says the ULEZ will start in April 19. That will apply to the current congestion charge zone. But will apply 24/7. Then it will be extended to greater London just before the A406. I live two roads away from A406 However this will be in 2021. 

I would recommend anyone living in London to email them too. 

Ps I completely agree with you guys about planes and black cabs. As usual the motorists are the victims. 

Thank you all for putting my mind at ease. 

 

[mk_lon]

8 hours ago, Farqui said:

Yes...Parkers lists the IS250 as Euro4, ref; https://www.parkers.co.uk/lexus/is/saloon-2005/250-4d/specs/

Presuming you live in the ULEZ, can't residents apply for a 100% rebate? 

Worth mentioning that this will only be for a limited period of time 

[Linas.P]

You mean "limited" before they will bring even tougher measures?

I have participated in several surveys when they were gauging the opinion about proposed changes. An remember it very well, because IS250 came bang on on the line to be compliant, maybe in next 5 years our cars will be the next ones for phasing out, but not this time around.

The proposal was (maybe it has changed in due course) that:

• Not compliant vehicles will pay surcharge over existing congestion charge. So instead of paying £12.50, they will as well pay surcharge of £12.50. Total £25.
• Not compliant vehicles will pay charge in extended ULEZ as well (withing circular road ~A406) of £12.50. You can view it this way - if you getting into ~A406 is £12.50 (because of extended ULEZ) if you drive further into London another £12.50 (because of surcharge).
• Several other changed to heavy transport like HGV's and Coaches. The question was asked about taxis, but my understanding is that either people have voted to exempt them or mayor ignored the results and exempted them anyway.

For IS250 nothing should change after this comes into force (hopefully less congestion and less dirty old cars on the road), we still pay £12.50 for existing congestion charge zone, but no surcharge and we will not be subject for charge in extended ULEZ, including we will not be subject to 24/7/365 charge rule even in central London (that only applies for Euro 3- Petrol and Euro 5- Diesel). At least that was the plan.

[mk_lon]

Hey Linas,

You are correct with my point around the surcharge (additional bloody tax).

On the TFL website they said they will give residence of the inner and outer zones a few months to adjust (sell their cars for nothing in a panic). I emailed them with the points you guys made and they got back to me. I have attached the response below.

They want a copy of my V5 to confirm..... I'll keep you guys updated. 

[mk_lon]

Hey Guys, 

 

They got back to me and confirmed that my is250 auto will not have to pay the charge. Thanks for all your help. 

[Farqui]

A good result, at least for the time being. 

Or do residents now have the charge waivered beyond the next few years?

[ahmedali44]

Linus p answer to ur question about taxi pollution as you are right but we got 15 yrs rule now, most of them are coming off road now as all tx1 are gone next are tx2 which are coming off slowly, new electric taxi is out now but very pricy. My tx4 is euro 5 less pollution after 15 yrs will be off road too as mine is 2014. We getting more screwed then car driver as new levc taxi is 57k cash or lease cost you 65k in 5 yrs. It's electric and petrol but worse thing is still 15 yrs rule apply which is absolutely stupid as electric charge lasts only 70 miles and not practical if you haven't got drive to charge it.

[johnatg]

Next up for ULEZs - Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham, Derby and Southampton by 2020.

I checked mine against the 'check your vehicle' list (which actually is the London checker) - shows I'd have to pay. I can see some disputes coming up!

[mk_lon]

10 hours ago, Farqui said:

A good result, at least for the time being. 

Or do residents now have the charge waivered beyond the next few years?

Basically it applies to all drivers entering the zone up to 2020.

Residence only get a few months extra after April 19

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, johnatg said:

Next up for ULEZs - Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham, Derby and Southampton by 2020.

I checked mine against the 'check your vehicle' list (which actually is the London checker) - shows I'd have to pay. I can see some disputes coming up!

With government being so "anti-motorists" commies it might be deliberate and I would not be surprised (I know that is again conspiracy theory from me). So they will "miss" few perfectly compliant cars which are just making. Some I will challenge them and win, you going to challenge them, @mk_lon did... but statistically probably 70-80% of drivers won't bother, won't understand and just pay-up few times and then change cars. Even if we going to contact biggest news corps which are mostly "anti-car" as well, even if it going to become well known public fact still 20-30% of ignorant people not going to realise. So by making such small "mistake" city going to make billions in ULEZ charges and more billions in illegal PCNs etc. 

There always going to be people who won't bother (including several of my friends). I happened so many times I lost count e.g. my mate comes over and says he got PCN from some private company or for some contravention on road he did not commit, I quickly check and it is clearly illegal, easy to challenge with basic knowledge of rules and law (basically what you can simple google). I tell them that and they still go on and pay-up.. basically saying: "I am not going to waste whole day arguing it and I have too many worries in my life to care- for me it is better to pay-up £60 and get 2 extra hours of work, then start argument..." end of story. There are a lot of people like that.. so with this thing will be the same.

Basically, gains by such mistake will be enormous and risk is tiny, if anything they might need to refund few drivers who cares to challenge them. Likelihood of somebody having evidence of it being deliberate and challenging them in court via class lawsuit is so minute is almost irrelevant. Even then, if they pay say 50 million to 100k affected drivers as compensation that will be teardrop in the sea in comparison with false fees they going to collect in mean time. Not to mentioned that biggest part of any class action will go as fine to some government agency, so TFL and London city going to pay fine to the government - still taxation.

Again this is just conspiracy theory, but I have long lost trust in "sincere" mistakes when it comes co government. They simply have underlying agenda to demonise motorists and will pull any dirty trick on us to achieve their goal... obviously making some money in process.

[mk_lon]

I completely agree with you. Motorist are easy targets and a cash cow. Government plays on ignorance all the time. 

I fear that cars will be forced off the road in the next decade or so and then we will be at the mercy of crap public transport that's overpriced and under policed (I have to commute into Central London so I experience this pain almost daily). 

 

[Linas.P]

That is why I call them commies (communists) - for them one size fits all. Personal needs, preference or personality in itself is not welcome - especially where they have to return on infrastructure. Motorists contribute £36bn a year only from direct taxation and duties and barely gets ~4bn/year of spending. Even then very little of £4bn is spent on actually improving the roads as large part is subsidies for public transport company stakeholders. No to improve public transport, but basically to improve profitability and return on investment - you might ask wtf?! but that is exactly the case e.g. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/subsidy_for_arriva vs. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3066527/Bus-train-operator-Arriva-sees-profit-accelerate-annual-sales-hit-3-3bn.html and that is Arriva (Deutsche Bahn) alone!!!! And there are multiple franchises ruining multiple routes. In short government subsidised private company which is making profit anyway, so the stakeholders can have better returns. Arriva made ~£100-300mln each year between 2003-2010 and received over £2bn of government subsidies on top of that (London alone), during the same period bus tickets price rose from ~£0.50 to £1.20 - this is bloody fraud in plain sight... Quite clearly that money could have been to improve appalling congestion, improve the roads, finance car scrapping and environmentally friendly car purchase schemes etc. - yet that is not a problem, problem is motorists as always.

[mk_lon]

Many moons ago when I was an economics student at university I learned that if you wanted get away with fraud scheme making you millions, you join the goverment and sub contract for local councils.

This was later confirmed when my friend who is a criminal lawyer told me point blanck that the local council's planning committee has a price and that whatever any wanted (providing they are rich) can be achieved and you have to use their sub contractors. 

Transport is the easiet place to pull this off and the UK car driver and commuter rarely kick up a fuss.