LS430 transmission failure - total fluid loss

[polymoog]

Well to cap off a lousy month for LS - after the exhaust and aircon both failing - yesterday it dropped its ATF doing 70 on the dual carriageway. Managed to limp into a lay-by - pool of ATF underneath, lots of smoke (I assume/hope just the fluid on the exhaust) and the whole back end and underneath of the car covered in a film of ATF. It's only done 106K, so I'm feeling pretty aggrieved...

There was some swearing.

Recovered home and now sat pondering my options and the imminent evisceration of my wallet.

Does this sound like a whole new transmission do we think? Any idea on fitting costs if I went that route? Not at Lexus though obviously. 

[Malc]

Poor you, sounds dreadful ...............and I've not heard of this happening before from LOC members.

has it dropped all it's fluid then ?  or is it just an awful lot of mess from a tiny amount.

Could it be something that's come adrift or arising  from it's last service possibly, maybe overfilling the gearbox ? ...  as I say, this issue has never been mentioned prior on this forum to my knowledge

Hope somebody can see this and bring useful words of wisdom and advice

Malc

[polymoog]

All its fluid? I don't know. Enough to lose pressure in the transmission so that it first wouldn't lock up the TC, then within a few hundred yards it started hunting all over the place then lost the gears until it was limping along in low gear, with me trying not to revs its nuts off whilst looking for somewhere to pull in.

Not aware of the transmission having been serviced, certainly not in the 20K miles I've had it.

[Malc]

does it have a dipstick to check ?

Malc

[The-Acre]

4 hours ago, Malc said:

does it have a dipstick to check ?

Malc

It does have a dipstick, and I would start by checking the rubber hoses that connect the in and out of the transmission fluid to the radiator cooler.  I say that because when I changed my radiator I found one of the hoses split, with not much time left before a major leak.  As you say Malc, not something we've read about before.

[polymoog]

I just love being a bork pioneer 😞

[DaKa]

It does sound like your transmission oil has boiled and looked for a high pressure escape route to the outside world.

It doesn't necessarily mean that your auto box is fried, but it will certainly need to be checked by a transmission specialist and may need new filters/seals/cooling connections.

I've heard of some adding an independent cooler for their transmission as this problem has been reported before on the forum - check the rcent thread from 'Haylands'

Best of luck and I hope it doesn't require a replacement.

[polymoog]

I've checked the dipstick and apart from a drip right on the tip it's bone dry.

@%$*!

[GrahamG]

I follow the USA club forum because they have so many  more cars over there and I cannot recall this happening.

The failure of the cooler does not I believe cause these dramatic symptoms.

Bad luck J, especially at such a low mileage, fingers crossed for you.

I would favour a second hand swap rather than a rebuild but I am not an expert.

[steve2006]

It doesn’t sound like the usual intercooler problem with the engine coolant and transmission fluid mixing on this occasion.

From a quick search of fleabay the earlier 5 speeds are around £500 but the later 6 speeds are nearly double that secondhand.

Never heard of one just dumping its fluid before, I would first be looking at the transmission cooler hoses for splits, if it is then you may be lucky and get away with a replacement hose and refill.

[DaKa]

It may be a case of servicing the box as per youtube link below but before any attempt to refill fluids you obviously must find out where the leak came out (pipe may have split) but more importantly why it overheated in the first place? It may have been a split pipe that caused the overheating. Best of luck!

 

[sorcerer]

2 hours ago, DaKa said:

but more importantly why it overheated in the first place?

I can't see any mention of the fluid overheating, just that it leaked out.

[polymoog]

Still haven't bottomed this one out, but the costs are mounting.

It's with a transmission specialist who looked at it last week and reported yes total fluid loss due to pipe corrosion in the radiator/cooler. They put some ATF in and bypassed the cooler and it crept ok and they manged to drive it around their yard and it went fine, but only in 1st and presumably 2nd. But the radiator is now losing all the engine coolant due to a leak (it wasn't leaking water when it left me) so they say it needs a new rad. They ordered one in from eurocarparts and said it was the 'wrong one' when it arrived and they can only get a proper one from Lexus. So about a £500 job just to swap that before it can be properly test driven to see if the transmission works on the road.

I'm speculating by 'wrong one' they mean it's one of the after market ones I've seen mentioned with slightly different pipework or something, haven't had time to suss that out properly. Are they not useable then? Is a rad really dealer only?

Seriously considering cutting and running and just scrapping the damn thing, but undecided. Need to tell the garage whether to proceed with new rad today. Hmm.

[Malc]

sorry to say that my reading of the forum posts on here relating to this issue generally  is that preventative change of the radiator is good BUT when it's too late and the event has occurred  then the gearbox is a write-off ..................  and the radiator.

Look for solace from elsewhere if you can or someone else on here might be able to offer better thoughts for you 

I hope so ..........  the achillees heel of the Ls430 sorry to say

My commiserations

Malc

[cruisermark]

1 hour ago, polymoog said:

Still haven't bottomed this one out, but the costs are mounting.

It's with a transmission specialist who looked at it last week and reported yes total fluid loss due to pipe corrosion in the radiator/cooler. They put some ATF in and bypassed the cooler and it crept ok and they manged to drive it around their yard and it went fine, but only in 1st and presumably 2nd. But the radiator is now losing all the engine coolant due to a leak (it wasn't leaking water when it left me) so they say it needs a new rad. They ordered one in from eurocarparts and said it was the 'wrong one' when it arrived and they can only get a proper one from Lexus. So about a £500 job just to swap that before it can be properly test driven to see if the transmission works on the road.

I'm speculating by 'wrong one' they mean it's one of the after market ones I've seen mentioned with slightly different pipework or something, haven't had time to suss that out properly. Are they not useable then? Is a rad really dealer only?

Seriously considering cutting and running and just scrapping the damn thing, but undecided. Need to tell the garage whether to proceed with new rad today. Hmm.

Phil aka "Acre" bought and replaced his radiator - might be worth looking up his posts.

[polymoog]

I've spoken to the specialist again and they thinks it's worth the gamble given it drives in the low gears with no problem.

Bet now!

 

[GrahamG]

50/50 ??

Lexus Guildford have had this happen four times.

Twice gearbox lost but when driver took early action after noticing incorrect behaviour all was well.

Only the Lexus rad. has the overflow from top corner. All after market rads have it from conventional filler neck. Both variations are original fit to the LS430.

Would you ask your experts their opinion on fitting a separate smaller oil cooler, especially whether it might not cool sufficiently without the benefit of the electric fan.

Good luck.

[polymoog]

6 minutes ago, GrahamG said:

Would you ask your experts their opinion on fitting a separate smaller oil cooler, especially whether it might not cool sufficiently without the benefit of the electric fan.

Thanks Graham. They've already said they do this^ as a matter of course.

[GrahamG]

Could I trouble you for the name of your experts.

So they are renewing your rad. and fitting a separate ATF cooler?

[polymoog]

42 minutes ago, GrahamG said:

Could I trouble you for the name of your experts.

So they are renewing your rad. and fitting a separate ATF cooler?

Austrin Engineering.

They haven't actually confirmed that they're doing both. When I first booked it in with them they mentioned installing a cooler, that was before they'd looked at the car and established the rad needed replacing. They're not doing anything just yet until I give them the nod (or ask for the car back as-is).

[RgrWynne]

If the gearbox has survived, and works ok, and a new radiator is fitted, why would you need to fit an additional cooler. I did take the precaution of replacing my rad, a year or  so ago, with an OEM purchased from a Lexus dealer, and fitted by my Independant.  I think the cost was £280ish. I had no trouble before, and obviously hope to not have any in future. That included a 1000 mile trip across Spain with temperatures in the high 30’s and never had any over heating. There was no evidence of corrosion in my old rad at all. I do think that unless you know the full service history, and that the anti freeze has been changed as per that service schedule, it is sensible as a precaution to replace the radiator. Wish you luck with decision, Rgds, Roger

[GrahamG]

My reasoning was to fit a separate cooler and bypass that in the main radiator to avoid future mixing of oil and water.

Have just spoken to an auto transmission specialist in Guildford and his advice is to stick to original factory design including a Lexus radiator rather than after market. Apparently this is also a problem for a number of other makes. 

That is what I will do, either have main agent fit it or an independent.

Do not intend to hijack J's thread and fingers crossed for him.

[GrahamG]

Just had a price for a radiator from Lexus Birmingham and  it is £431.48 inc VAT and delivery and that is with a discount.........ouch!

[polymoog]

Roger - not sure he'd recommend a cooler and a new rad, but we haven't discussed that. As I say coolers were mentioned before the rad fault was known (before he'd even received the car in fact).

Graham I've been quoted £280+VAT for a Lexus rad, so your quote appears high. I presume that's from Lexus Newcastle I though I think they sourced it elsewhere in the country. Saying that, Austrin said they'd normally expect a rad for a big old bus like ours to be nearer £500 from a dealer, so there's that. Maybe try calling a different parts department at another dealer?

[GrahamG]

Lexus Reading want £823 for a new rad.

Their master technician with Lexus 10 years reports he does know of this problem [water from rad into gearbox] but that it is very rare.

If a second hand tranny could be installed for say £1600 and I will only be stranded driving locally I am doubting the wisdom of taking preventative action in this case.