GS450h MPG... why would you buy a 3L Diesel

[Northern_Si]

 

Bolton to Milton Keynes.  Sticking to the speed limit.  Over 50mpg, over 600 mile range  

So what is the advantage of a large diesel?  

 

[Farqui]

Impressive [emoji106]

[mrdoofa]

There are no advantages to a large diesel that I can see, they are much less refined and still sound like a tractor. The government are going to make it harder and harder to run diesels anyway.  Petrol hybrids and electric are the way forward. Very impressive figures BTW, my mk3 GS450H will never quite achieve that but I can still get 40+mpg on a run which is still excellent, especially for the performance the car has

[Northern_Si]

I think the M6 basically being a 50mph zone might help things. 

[XT5]

1 hour ago, Northern_Si said:

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by XT5
Deleted, I misunderstood the posting, sorry.

[royoftherovers]

10 hours ago, Northern_Si said:

I think the M6 basically being a 50mph zone might help things. 

For years the Government told us that the most economical driving speed was 56mph, so large stretches at say 50mph will have a significant positive effect.

The fact that the car in question is a Mk1V is another significant reason as MK3`s cannot approach such figures with brim to brim figures rarely exceeding 40mpg measured full tank to full tank.

[Northern_Si]

15 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

For years the Government told us that the most economical driving speed was 56mph, so large stretches at say 50mph will have a significant positive effect.

The fact that the car in question is a Mk1V is another significant reason as MK3`s cannot approach such figures with brim to brim figures rarely exceeding 40mpg measured full tank to full tank.

During the roadworks near stoke my MPG went from 43MPG to 48MPG. 

To be fair, driving from Hertford to Bolton up the M1 and M62 with less roadworks, I will manage 47/48MPG

[Normski]

Even my GS 300 can manage a great MPG. Unfortunately I do like the loud pedal and seem to be spending lots of time in stop-start city traffic at the moment :( 

[usuf_x]

Wow impressive figures.

 the hybrid help massively and certainly no reason to get a large diesel 

[Ten Ninety]

22 hours ago, Northern_Si said:

So what is the advantage of a large diesel?  

Being able to send tailgaters to an early grave by choking them with wretched carcinogenic soot?

11 hours ago, Northern_Si said:

To be fair, driving from Hertford to Bolton up the M1 and M62 with less roadworks, I will manage 47/48MPG

Can I ask what tyres you're running? Those figures are impressive for a 450h, and I'm always interested in what tyres actually give strong economy in the real world.

[Northern_Si]

7 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

Being able to send tailgaters to an early grave by choking them with wretched carcinogenic soot?

Can I ask what tyres you're running? Those figures are impressive for a 450h, and I'm always interested in what tyres actually give strong economy in the real world.

 

Dunlop Sport Maxx RT 2's all round. 

[st4]

I’ve had several large diesels and they roughly match that.

I’d say the hybrid is a mighty complex car but then so is a modern diesel with EGR, DPF, high pressure injectors, turbos and the repair costs if one of these let’s go can’t be far off the cost of a hybrid Battery.

I have the mk4 GS250 and it won’t do 51 but 37 will do me fine.


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[Northern_Si]

59 minutes ago, st4 said:

I’ve had several large diesels and they roughly match that.

I’d say the hybrid is a mighty complex car but then so is a modern diesel with EGR, DPF, high pressure injectors, turbos and the repair costs if one of these let’s go can’t be far off the cost of a hybrid battery.

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My old E350cdi would match it, but the Lexus is a nicer experience. 

Actually most of the components of the hybrid are quite simple ... a lazy 3.5L V6 and an electric motor. It is just the things which connects them which is complicated. 

[mrdoofa]

5 hours ago, st4 said:

I’ve had several large diesels and they roughly match that.

I’d say the hybrid is a mighty complex car but then so is a modern diesel with EGR, DPF, high pressure injectors, turbos and the repair costs if one of these let’s go can’t be far off the cost of a hybrid battery.

I have the mk4 GS250 and it won’t do 51 but 37 will do me fine.


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You’re right there, the days of simple bomb proof diesels that you could run on virtually anything including used cooking oil are long gone!!! All the items you’ve listed except possibly the EGR valve come with four figure repair bills, also if it’s a manual there is the dreaded dual mass flywheel to think about too. Modern diesels are horrendously complex and it’s only going to get worse as emissions regulations for them get tighter and tighter as the government tries to force them off the road. Also, they’ll always sound, shake and vibrate like a tractor no matter what they do!!! They tend to deliver all their torque and power in one lump between around 2,000rpm and 3,500rpm with nothing on either side. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you can take the diesel out of the farmyard but you can’t take the farmyard out of the diesel. The future is petrol hybrid and electric.

[st4]

You’re right there, the days of simple bomb proof diesels that you could run on virtually anything including used cooking oil are long gone!!! All the items you’ve listed except possibly the EGR valve come with four figure repair bills, also if it’s a manual there is the dreaded dual mass flywheel to think about too. Modern diesels are horrendously complex and it’s only going to get worse as emissions regulations for them get tighter and tighter as the government tries to force them off the road. Also, they’ll always sound, shake and vibrate like a tractor no matter what they do!!! They tend to deliver all their torque and power in one lump between around 2,000rpm and 3,500rpm with nothing on either side. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you can take the diesel out of the farmyard but you can’t take the farmyard out of the diesel. The future is petrol hybrid and electric.

I had an E350cdi. 6 new injectors were needed at £500 each, the e320cdi needed a new manifold at £2000, various other engine faults too. The refinement wasn’t great - the best one was the d5 Volvo as when you gave it the beans it made a nice sound.

All had horrible odd vibrations and corse sounds. You got used to them but after trying a petrol car I knew I needed to change. Plus the scary repair bills it wasn’t like I was saving money.


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[rich1068]

5 hours ago, mrdoofa said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you can take the diesel out of the farmyard but you can’t take the farmyard out of the diesel.

I say what I like and I like what I bloody well say! Brother, we are kindred spirits 

[st4]

Bit of a thread hijack as my GS is a humble 250 without the extra 1000cc and batteries/motors of the OPs car so yes mines not as fast as a 3l diesel (not far off though and I should know I covered 70000 miles plus across two Merc v6 diesel E classes)

If either of these returned this I’d have been pleased for the drive. This was Fort William upto Eilean Donan. A run which would suit a hybrid given the fact the route turns, dips and rises allowing for regeneration of the Battery and assist from the motor.

I kind of regret the last ten years of driving diesels as I did it to save money.




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[Mark G]

Modern technology, its great, I was shocked to see 34.3mpg from mine on a run up North, steady 70 mph apart from roadworks, the ISF only achieved 30mpg once.

[st4]

Modern technology, its great, I was shocked to see 34.3mpg from mine on a run up North, steady 70 mph apart from roadworks, the ISF only achieved 30mpg once.

These new engines. Money no object I’d have gone for the GSF or a GS350 if such a thing existed here.

I don’t get why the GS got panned in the press. It’s barely less efficient out there in the real world, bags more refined than any diesel (including an S class Merc diesel I borrow occasionally). A 520d which a friend has is horrific compared to this and he’s glad when it does 55mpg. In the scheme of life if that’s £5/week I’d be amazed.


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[Northern_Si]

So after a week with my initial Bolton to Milton Keynes drive hitting over 50MPG, I did a little more driving.  

• My hotel just outside of MK to my customer site in MK
• MK to Hertford - avoiding the motorways as I couldn't face the M1, M25 and the A10 on a Thursday night
• Hertford to Bolton via the M25 and M42 due to issues on the M1 (I wish I'd gone up the A1)

My 'Since Refuelling' indicator is saying 47.5MPG over about 450miles. Range is showing about 150 miles and well over 1/4 of a tank of petrol.  Can't really complain with that,

 

1 hour ago, st4 said:

I don’t get why the GS got panned in the press. 
 

 

2 things come to mind ....

Firstly with the CVT gearbox, it is poo on a track due to the noise.  Why you would want to take a hybrid executive saloon onto a track is beyond me.  Saying that, I've seen an Italian video by Lexus taking folk out with a test driver on the track with heart beat monitors connected.  If you can find it on YouTube it is very funny,

Secondly, the motoring press have no idea how to drive a hybrid. You do have to adapt your driving style.  Being smooth is king.

 

My car goes in for the 70K mile service and MOT on Friday.  Other than my rear brakes which the 'visual inspection' has flagged as amber for the past 30K miles, I don't expect any problems.

 

[st4]

So after a week with my initial Bolton to Milton Keynes drive hitting over 50MPG, I did a little more driving.  

• My hotel just outside of MK to my customer site in MK
• MK to Hertford - avoiding the motorways as I couldn't face the M1, M25 and the A10 on a Thursday night
• Hertford to Bolton via the M25 and M42 due to issues on the M1 (I wish I'd gone up the A1)

My 'Since Refuelling' indicator is saying 47.5MPG over a 450miles. Range is showing about 150 miles.  Can't really complain with that,
 
 
2 things come to mind ....
Firstly with the CVT gearbox, it is poo on a track due to the noise.  Why you would want to take a hybrid executive saloon onto a track is beyond me.  Saying that, I've seen an Italian video by Lexus taking folk out with a test driver on the track with heart beat monitors connected.  If you can find it on YouTube it is very funny,
Secondly, the motoring press have no idea how to drive a hybrid. You do have to adapt your driving style.  Being smooth is king.
 
My car goes in for the 70K mile service and MOT on Friday.  Other than my rear brakes which the 'visual inspection' has flagged as amber for the past 30K miles, I don't expect any problems.
 

Not all the GS range is hybrid - personally I’m all for choice and the Lexus non hybrid range is a bit thin in my view - hence they’re a rare site on the roads.

Why drop the 200t from the IS/RC/NX range, why not include it in the GS range too. Why not also offer the IS with the 350 and 5.0 as an F model. Why not offer the GS with the 350 and 460 motor too. They do outside Europe and they’re paired with either an Aisin 6sp or 8sp auto. A manual transmission might be a step to far but maybe not in the RC/IS/NX and CT (why isn’t that offered as a non hybrid too)

People would buy them here too. Plenty 540i and big engined diesel 3 series/5 series segment cars out there who’d take a petrol motor in a heart beat but are a little uneasy about a hybrid as it’s quite a different thing.

Toyota have a compelling 8sp auto box and the new ten speed. Can’t say a CVT is my bag but I’d never say never but I’m a conservative person. I’d take a more traditional style drive train and pay a bit more tax to do so at the pump and in VED.

Mines the older six speed and whilst it’s ok, it’s miles behind the rest of the car and it’s more than anything down to the software in the box. The changes are smooth and quick but it doesn’t like to lock up like a newer auto and that’s purely software. Take control manually and it’s as smooth and quick changing as a new Merc 9 speed.

The 8 and 10sp will be better but I fear Mercedes and ZF have the software element licked.


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[Northern_Si]

2 minutes ago, st4 said:

Not all the GS range is hybrid 
 

 

For quite a few years it has been.  The GS250 was dropped around the time the GS300h came out.

I really don't see the benefit of the GS350 when the GS450h offers better performance and a lot less CO2 emissions.   At the end of the day, it is about the CO2 emissions with new cars.  That is why 540's are nearly as rare as the GS on the road.  

[st4]

I really don't see the benefit of the GS350 when the GS450h offers better performance and a lot less CO2 emissions.   At the end of the day, it is about the CO2 emissions with new cars.  That is why 540's are nearly as rare as the GS on the road.  

It would offer a non hybrid in the range and could be marketed as a sportier cheaper model. A lot are wary of hybrids. Me I’m probably ready to take the plunge but would sooner take a normal petrol and gear box



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[Glover]

 

Just watched it; brilliant!

[talaipwros]

I have a Lexus CT bought new in 2016. very rarely managed true 50-55 mpg in the motorway

my previous GS250, a brilliant vehicle, usually managed an average of 25-28

 

the 3-litre twin turbo AWD 740d, manages a true ( by true a mean checking amount of fuel divided by distance) 44 mpg in the motorway and an average 40.8mpg on the meter ( for comparison, Lexus CT has an average 46mpg on the meter, mostly driver in the city though)

 

so yet, for high mileage cruising, I still think a big diesel is better