TESLA MODEL 3

[ganzoom]

Most exciting thing about the Royal wedding today......anyone spot the lack of tail pipes on the E-Type. Looks like even the Royal Family is more progressive than some of you guys on here :)

 

[steveledzep]

Please, just go to the Tesla site and leave us Lexus guys alone.  If I (or anyone else) buys a Tesla, we'll see you there.

Tedious to the extreme !!!!!!!!!!

[ganzoom]

Oh the guy is a tease...

 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, ganzoom said:

how reckless wasting it we have been. 

Calling it "wasting" is just perspective... not necessary correct one.

Equally just demonising something without suggesting alternative is easy, requires no intellect and adds no value. 

What about all wasted energy in electricity production? In 2014 we wasted 66.2M TOE of energy, that is equivalent of 769.9TWh of electricity. I don't have data for later years, but there is nothing to indicate this trend would have changed. With equivalent energy spent on say hydrogen production we could have produced ~14million tonnes of liquid hydrogen (equivalent of ~140 million tones of petrol/diesel by energy density), which then could have been used as very clean and powerful fuel even in converted ICE, or EV's.

The issue with this discussion and most of the discussions is that people fail to comprehend the size of the issue we have and just focuses on issues in front of their face i.e. "polluting" ICE's. But ICE's are just tip of the tip of the iceberg of the issue... I believe for government and politicians it is convenient to blame it ICE's as that allows to form public opinion and justify the ever increasing taxes and punitive measures... or they actually are simply stupid and don't understand the issue either (which seem possible considering some recent political developments).

My point, to solve the problem you first need to understand the problem - I am yet to see the person in charge, in government who does understand the issue and does something to solve it. It just doesn't happen. 

Ohhh.. and by the way... I am not against electric cars, quite contrary I would love to have electric car if it would make sense in my circumstances.

[Rabbers]

9 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Most exciting thing about the Royal wedding today......anyone spot the lack of tail pipes on the E-Type. Looks like even the Royal Family is more progressive than some of you guys on here 🙂

 

Nice car.  Would like to own it, especially as it's a lhd version.   It looks to be the same item Jaguar were touting around mid-2017 at an

asking price of £350K without, however, seeming to have found any takers for this or any other similar conversion from an XK engine base.  

So, unless Prince H. has actually bought the car rather than merely had it on loan for publicity purposes, I would guess it will go straight back

to Jaguar for, now that some demand has been created, future high-class rentals. 

 

[ganzoom]

So the 'P' version is now ready to order, but actually its the AWD option that looks most tempting.

 

Tesla unveils faster and more powerful Model 3 dual motor AWD and Performance versions

 

$35k base

$9k long range Battery

$5k premium upgrade

$5k AWD

 

$54k total, should translate to £45k OTR UK. 4.5 second 0-60 miles, 310 miles on EPA range.

 

Our IS300H, same size, less tech, only RWD, significantly slower, was £41k list back in 2015....Cannot wait to order ours :).

 

[rayaans]

8 hours ago, ganzoom said:

So the 'P' version is now ready to order, but actually its the AWD option that looks most tempting.

 

Tesla unveils faster and more powerful Model 3 dual motor AWD and Performance versions

 

$35k base

$9k long range battery

$5k premium upgrade

$5k AWD

 

$54k total, should translate to £45k OTR UK. 4.5 second 0-60 miles, 310 miles on EPA range.

 

Our IS300H, same size, less tech, only RWD, significantly slower, was £41k list back in 2015....Cannot wait to order ours :).

 

$54k total in US will pretty much mean £52-53k in the UK......

If you ordered it now, you'll probably get it by 2021, sort of the same time as when everybody other manufacturer has made and sold their EVs 😂

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

$54k total in US will pretty much mean £52-53k in the UK......

If you ordered it now, you'll probably get it by 2021, sort of the same time as when everybody other manufacturer has made and sold their EVs 😂

The a P100D S is $146k in the US, same car is £125k in the UK OTR. Similarly base Model S is $75k US, £64K here in UK. 

Apply same conversion factor back on a $54k Model 3 your be at around £45k UK OTR.

What other EVs are coming on market with similar range or speed?? Only thing I can think of is the iPace, similar size to 3, similar speed, but £70K+ and 240 miles EPA range versus 310 miles EPA range.

You can see from my car history ownership I have no brand loyalty, but I cannot think of any other EV coming any time soon in the same price/range option? Can you??

My Tesla account still says early 2019, but I expect it to be late 2019, which isn't an issue for us. The IS is fine so not in a massive rush, however it simply a matter of when the IS goes rather than if. 

[rayaans]

44 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

The a P100D S is $146k in the US, same car is £125k in the UK OTR. Similarly base Model S is $75k US, £64K here in UK. 

Apply same conversion factor back on a $54k Model 3 your be at around £45k UK OTR.

What other EVs are coming on market with similar range or speed?? Only thing I can think of is the iPace, similar size to 3, similar speed, but £70K+ and 240 miles EPA range versus 310 miles EPA range.

You can see from my car history ownership I have no brand loyalty, but I cannot think of any other EV coming any time soon in the same price/range option? Can you??

My Tesla account still says early 2019, but I expect it to be late 2019, which isn't an issue for us. The IS is fine so not in a massive rush, however it simply a matter of when the IS goes rather than if. 

Base Model S is £66k pretty much. Conversion factor is US/1.14

It'd still be £47-48k

Early 2019 in Tesla timing is probably 2020 to be honest. 

 

[doog442]

 

11 hours ago, ganzoom said:

$54k total, should translate to £45k OTR UK. 4.5 second 0-60 miles, 310 miles on EPA range.

 

Our IS300H, same size, less tech, only RWD, significantly slower, was £41k list back in 2015....Cannot wait to order ours :).

 

Real people can pick up a 3 month old IS300h with 100 miles on the clock for just over £30K. Wait 12/18 months and its £20K.

Who in their right mind would spend £41K on a new  IS300h unless it was on PCP or you are a company car driver quoting some daft made up Lexus price which no one ever actually pays.

So that's a £11 grand reduction for a proven reliable, luxury motor .

£11K will buy you about 100,000 petrol / hybrid miles .£15K differential so more compared to your Tesla

At the moment things don't add up. How exactly is the average motorist gaining anything from this scenario ? 

 

(ps I get the Nissan thing but not the comparison with Tesla and a luxury marque such as Lexus with its proven reliability. )

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

What other EVs are coming on market with similar range or speed??

Not sure about range or speed, but certainly better material and build quality.

[HarryM]

On 18 May 2018 at 10:18 AM, ganzoom said:

 

Why do you think it would take 4 days??

There is a website called https://abetterrouteplanner.com it lets you plan any trip around Europe/US using Tesla superchargers. I use it quite a lot and it's pretty accurate though the range estimates are on the conservative side, I nearly always arrive with more % charge left than the website states. 

We are going to France this summer in the Tesla with our 2 year old, I have no worries about charging, and looking at a route to Interlaken, suggest only need 3 20 minute stops once your in Europe (Actually if you stopped for 40-50 minutes at Nancy to get 100% charge that will get to Interlaken with no future stops, but you can play with the website for your self and see)......Though I do understand there is a group of people that want a car that can drive 500 miles non-stop for 12 hrs and thing less isn't good enough ;) 

That's a mighty good average speed you are doing there! 62 mph nice.

How many times do you have to wait at the super chargers, I guess the more cars  they get on the road the more they will put in.

do you keep to around 200 miles per charge?

[ganzoom]

7 hours ago, HarryM said:

How many times do you have to wait at the super chargers, I guess the more cars  they get on the road the more they will put in.

do you keep to around 200 miles per charge?

Ive yet had to wait at a Supercharger.

I plug the car in every night regardless of usage.

[ganzoom]

9 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure about range or speed, but certainly better material and build quality.

Can you name some??

[ganzoom]

10 hours ago, doog442 said:

 

Who in their right mind would spend £41K on a new  IS300h unless it was on PCP or you are a company car driver quoting some daft made up Lexus price which no one ever actually pays.

So that's a £11 grand reduction for a proven reliable, luxury motor .

 

So what your saying is Lexus makes such a great product the only way they can sell the cars is with a massive discount??

Can you guess how much discount Tesla will give you on a £130k P100D L?? 

Tesla is shifting the Model 3 at full price faster than they can build them, which currently is just under 5000/week. Lexus sold 5000 IS for the whole of 2017 in Europe. So 1 week of Tesla production = entire sales of the IS for a whole year in a major market.....

So one product has to be sold at a discount and the other has a 2 year waiting list despite costing more with no discount. I wonder which is the better product in the eye of the consumer :).

[malcolmw]

Which does raise the question as to why, if there is a 2 year order book, Tesla don't raise the price to balance supply and demand?

They surely can't be socially altruistic as they are basically an American tech company. Aren't they having to go to investors for another huge tranche of cash to keep them going?

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, ganzoom said:

So what your saying is Lexus makes such a great product the only way they can sell the cars is with a massive discount??

Can you guess how much discount Tesla will give you on a £130k P100D L?? 

Tesla is shifting the Model 3 at full price faster than they can build them, which currently is just under 5000/week. Lexus sold 5000 IS for the whole of 2017 in Europe. So 1 week of Tesla production = entire sales of the IS for a whole year in a major market.....

So one product has to be sold at a discount and the other has a 2 year waiting list despite costing more with no discount. I wonder which is the better product in the eye of the consumer :).

For a start, its not a new car. The model itself is nearly 5 years old now but when it came out, there werent any discounts available for the 1st year which is the usual Lexus standard.

You're also manipulating the stats and comparing total production of Tesla Model 3 to UK IS sales. 

For a start, Tesla are not making 5000/week, they are making 3566/week updated 21/05/2018 

They've only built 40k units since the beginning of January 2017

In contrast, 2312 IS still sold in the US alone in 2017-18. Not bad for a car thats 5 years old and coming towards the end of its lifespan.

"Better product" is subjective. More fashionable maybe but we'll have another BMW, Merc, Audi situation again if these things get too popular - every tom, ***** and harry will have one if they manage to boost production, which is unlikely anytime soon since they can't seem to meet their targets for production or quality

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ganzoom said:

 

Tesla is shifting the Model 3 at full price faster than they can build them

 

That's not strong sales - that's crap production - Toyota produce about 200,000 a week by comparison.

In 2016 Lexus sold nearly 678,000 cars.

Even at 5000 a week that's only 260,000 - that's why there is a waiting list.

[ganzoom]

40 minutes ago, malcolmw said:

Which does raise the question as to why, if there is a 2 year order book, Tesla don't raise the price to balance supply and demand?

They surely can't be socially altruistic as they are basically an American tech company. Aren't they having to go to investors for another huge tranche of cash to keep them going?

They are by not producing the '$35k' headline figure car for atleast another 12 months.

The only real fundamental difference between the $35k base car and $75k performance version is an extra 15-20kWh of Battery cells (which I suspect costs less than $5k to Tesla), and a modified rear motor (sub $1k cost to Tesla).

The rest is essentially pure profit, but its not because every $ Tesla earn is been put straight back into the supply chain/development etc.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the balance between preorder waiting times going down as the cars get delivered versus new orders been made.

The AWD version of the 3 is looking like the real sweet spot of the range, 4.5 second 0-60, 310 miles EPA range, and at £45k thats me happy, very happy. I can see the waiting list growing not going down :).

But I have a feeling the 'P' version has been capped to not make the £120k P100D L Model S look bad. There is no reason why the 3, been smaller, lighter, but still with a 400volt Battery pack and AWD cannot go under 2.5 seconds to 60mph.....But am sure once the modders in the US get hold of them that will change.

[ganzoom]

7 minutes ago, Comedian said:

That's not strong sales - that's crap production - Toyota produce about 200,000 a week by comparison.

In 2016 Lexus sold nearly 678,000 cars.

Even at 5000 a week that's only 260,000 - that's why there is a waiting list.

And once upon a time every one had a Nokia phone, and went to a company called Kodak for their phots to be printed :).

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

And once upon a time every one had a Nokia phone, and went to a company called Kodak for their phots to be printed :).

And how does that alter the actual facts?

 

 

 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

They are by not producing the '$35k' headline figure car for atleast another 12 months.

The only real fundamental difference between the $35k base car and $75k performance version is an extra 15-20kWh of battery cells (which I suspect costs less than $5k to Tesla), and a modified rear motor (sub $1k cost to Tesla).

The rest is essentially pure profit, but its not because every $ Tesla earn is been put straight back into the supply chain/development etc.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the balance between preorder waiting times going down as the cars get delivered versus new orders been made.

The AWD version of the 3 is looking like the real sweet spot of the range, 4.5 second 0-60, 310 miles EPA range, and at £45k thats me happy, very happy. I can see the waiting list growing not going down :).

But I have a feeling the 'P' version has been capped to not make the £120k P100D L Model S look bad. There is no reason why the 3, been smaller, lighter, but still with a 400volt battery pack and AWD cannot go under 2.5 seconds to 60mph.....But am sure once the modders in the US get hold of them that will change.

0-60mph in 4.5s with a 310 mile range is hardly ground breaking though

A Golf R can do 4.6s equipped with DSG, has more range and is much cheaper to buy. I dont doubt the quality is much better too. If you want to complain about quality, then an S3 would do nicely. 

If we're going to start talking about mods, these can do sub 4s with a tune.

Why someone would pay £45k for renault grade plastics is beyond me

[ganzoom]

18 minutes ago, rayaans said:

0-60mph in 4.5s with a 310 mile range is hardly ground breaking though

 

You missed the EV bit didnt you :).

[rayaans]

34 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

 

You missed the EV bit didnt you :).

Yes, but I dont understand why someone would go for an EV in a fast car. Like surely the whole point is to get the sound and sense of speed rather than feeling like going through a timewarp

[doog442]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

And once upon a time every one had a Nokia phone, and went to a company called Kodak for their phots to be printed :).

Which was over 20 years ago.

No one's disputing what the situation might be like in 20 years time but the debate that you're encouraging appears to be based around the fact that that a Tesla is better / equal value, has better performance and better suits the ergonomics of the general population at this moment in time. I don't doubt the performance aspect but as pointed out you can buy that elsewhere for half the price.

Its still a novelty, people are renting them for special occasions (stag do's / parties) around here and I can't really see that changing until there's the ability for these things to be charged quickly and conveniently (ie minutes) . Battery and charging tech is notoriously slow to develop.