Amazed with the 300H

[Jules PF]

Fair enough. But I don't have a problem, save for people who denigrate other people and think the road belongs to them and their particular peccadillos.

However I can't help but note you don't actually own a 300h. People who own them, in the main, adapt to the capabilities of the car (like the use of the sport mode) it is like having 2 different cars. Just having one for 24 hours is not the same.  Hit the sport button and throttle is more sensitive and drives very different. Never have problems with acceleration out of junctions, hills etc. Some people (like you) don't like them. It is a free country, many more cars available.

[doog442]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

0 - because since April 2017 they no longer eligible.

What happened to the four years before that ?

Also what do you mean by not eligible.? (genuine question as I'm not a company car driver)

[noby76]

16 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Linas - you seem like an angry person - really don't know why - I was trying to be constructive. The comment about the Autobahns came from some of my colleagues on the continent - appreciate some of it may have been skewed a little in translation but the crux is that if a driver is involved in an accident on the Autobahn when exceeding the advisory speed limit, the burden of proof that their high speed did not cause damage is with the driver exceeding the recommended speed limit. It may not be a criminal offence but money, or at least insurance money, talks. However that is taken on board it has had the effect of lowering (or capping) the speed of many drivers on the Autobahn. I do agree though that the German drivers have much better lane discipline than in the UK and that is one of the reasons I enjoy driving in Germany.

Your comment about needing to drive an IS 300h carefully and slowly like a pensioner is just insulting! Any car regardless of power in the wrong hands can be driven at an inappropriate speed, in an inappropriate way, and becomes a lethal weapon. I have NEVER had a problem with my brain just telling me to slow down or not overtake because the car is "slow" - do I overtake in the same way as in other cars I have had - YES! and use the appropriate control modes to do so - safely. Do I take stupid risks - NO - but I never have and I try and respect all the other drivers on the road, despite some of them being complete idiots! Do I enjoy driving the car - YES! and in fact more than most other cars I have owned. As I said, to appreciate the IS 300h and what it delivers I do think it takes a few months of ownership and not just a few hours or even a day - but after that first few months it certainly didn't change the way I drive or how I perceive and react to situations, just allowed me to appreciate the depth of the car and its technology more.

I certainly don't think the car is for everyone but no one is twisting anyone's arm to buy one either - there are many, many cars all offering different experiences and waiting for someone open their wallet and buy them. It sounds like you want the reliability and quality of a Lexus but something that goes from 0-60 in sub 5 seconds - well there are plenty of alternatives out there for you to try - including the Lexus LC of course - assuming you have the money to scratch the itch - I've been lucky enough to scratch a few of my own itches in my life. No manufacturer will ever make the perfect car for an individual - that's why some people have more than one of course - but in general a very high proportion of owners on this particular IS Mk III forum seem happy with their choice, the reasons for which I am sure are many and varied (300h and the 250 or 200t). The few who have actually owned an IS 300h for a reasonable period of time and found it doesn't suit them, then I take on board their critical comments that come from that experience and wish them all the best with their new purchases - one day that might also be me should my needs and circumstances change, as they do through life.

I have seen your similar comments slating the performance and power delivery of the IS 300h in a number of previous posts - you seem to be a pretty lonely voice - but everyone to their views and if that is your view then fine - we will agree to disagree. I am happy in my choice of car, I assume you are still looking for yours. That's my final word on the matter, though I am sure you will want to have the last word?

Yes He @Linas.P keeps going on about how crappy of an engine the 300h is when official performance figures from Lexus confirms there is nothing between his IS250 when compared to the 300h in them in terms of 0-60 and rolling acceleration and power to weight ratio.. 250 better it by 15mph at top end but thats because the 300h's Top end speed has been artificially capped.  he even claimed the IS200T is crappy aswell. we have have this discussion numerous times on different threads so this is not new... an IS-F will solve his problem but he claims is overkill but IS300H/200T models with reasonable performance are crappy..

He sounds very much like my missus complains about everything but offer her a solution and she doesn't take it and keeps on complaining...

@Linas.P, Get yourself an IS-F and put this IS300H hatred to bed once and for all.. 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Jules PF said:

However I can't help but note you don't actually own a 300h. 

Irrelevant, based on same logic - you have driven IS250 in the past, I have driven IS300h in the past and as you don't have IS250 right now, so how can you compare? Sport only changes throttle and makes judder off the line more pronounced and harsher. 

29 minutes ago, noby76 said:

@Linas.P, Get yourself an IS-F and put this IS300H hatred to bed once and for all.. 

That is not the point, I can get myself Bugatti, it doesn't change how Lexus IS300h sounds or drives. Again it is great replacement for IS220d, especially for city driving, but not an upgrade for IS250.. that is the only thing I am pointing out.

1 hour ago, doog442 said:

What happened to the four years before that ?

Also what do you mean by not eligible.? (genuine question as I'm not a company car driver)

After April 2017 (when the rules changed), the new Co2 limit is 75g Co2/Km. Meaning that only hybrid cars with the tiniest engines like Yaris Hybrid (50g) or PHEVs like BMW 330e (49g), Prius Plug-in (44g) are compliant. Volvo, BMW, MB, Audi all released PHEVs band on target,  but Lexus is sleeping. Previously, based on old rules all 300h cars were eligible, because limit was 115g Co2/km. It is not coincidence IS300h makes exactly 114g Co2/km.

Anyway, what that means is - you can no longer choose any 300h as Salary Sacrifice, Car allowance or any other corporate scheme, because it doesn't have any tax advantage. Companies can still buy such cars for fleet and pay lower BIK then say on diesel cars, but lets be clear Lexus is not favourite fleet cars anyhow.

[route66]

31 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Irrelevant, based on same logic - you have driven IS250 in the past, I have driven IS300h in the past and as you don't have IS250 right now, so how can you compare? Sport only changes throttle and makes judder off the line more pronounced and harsher. 

That is not the point, I can get myself Bugatti, it doesn't change how Lexus IS300h sounds or drives. Again it is great replacement for IS220d, especially for city driving, but not an upgrade for IS250.. that is the only thing I am pointing out.

After April 2017 (when the rules changed), the new Co2 limit is 75g Co2/Km. Meaning that only hybrid cars with the tiniest engines like Yaris Hybrid (50g) or PHEVs like BMW 330e (49g), Prius Plug-in (44g) are compliant. Volvo, BMW, MB, Audi all released PHEVs band on target,  but Lexus is sleeping. Previously, based on old rules all 300h cars were eligible, because limit was 115g Co2/km. It is not coincidence IS300h makes exactly 114g Co2/km.

Anyway, what that means is - you can no longer choose any 300h as Salary Sacrifice, Car allowance or any other corporate scheme, because it doesn't have any tax advantage. Companies can still buy such cars for fleet and pay lower BIK then say on diesel cars, but lets be clear Lexus is not favourite fleet cars anyhow.

I think the IS300H you drove was not representative - my one is creamy smooth and has very linear acceleration. From a performance perspective, Autocar compared one to a BMW 320D some years ago and found the performance to be comparable. They did say that it didn't feel comparable however.

As regards judder off the line - sounds like wheel spin? Or a warped clutch disc. ... that the IS300H doesn't have. Sure you are remembering that correctly?

[Jules PF]

52 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Irrelevant, based on same logic - you have driven IS250 in the past, I have driven IS300h in the past and as you don't have IS250 right now, so how can you compare? Sport only changes throttle and makes judder off the line more pronounced and harsher. 

That is not the point, I can get myself Bugatti............

Not irrelevant and I did explain why. Time spent to adapt and LEARN.  I have owned 2nd and 3rd gen 250 and 300h. Actually owned and driven for years, not a 24 hour test. All my experiences are based on that. So totally relevant. 

You can't afford a Bugatti....:)

Original poster, I hope you take the plunge and enjoy the 300h, I certainly do. 

[noby76]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

 

That is not the point, I can get myself Bugatti, it doesn't change how Lexus IS300h sounds or drives. Again it is great replacement for IS220d, especially for city driving, but not an upgrade for IS250.. that is the only thing I am pointing out.

 

so countless threads later, on this same topic and you still have not grasped the notion that the IS300h is NOT and was never marketed as a Performance car neither is it a Full blown Luxury Car. Its there to fill the gap for those seeking a reliable, reasonably priced saloon with a touch of Luxury toys, decent MPG, cheap road tax and adequate performance. read again i said adequate not mind blowing as you keep going on about how slow it when Lexus figures proves otherwise when compared to your 250

so your countless talk of it being noisy is rubbish its was not designed and marketed to be a quiet car again countless talk of the way it drives is again dog poo as it was not marketed nor intended to drive like a sports car get this into your head. more over, no one has put a gun to your head forcing you to like the IS300h like every other car, it also has its market  audience and its not you so no need to keep slating it..
 

[doog442]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

After April 2017 (when the rules changed), the new Co2 limit is 75g Co2/Km. Meaning that only hybrid cars with the tiniest engines like Yaris Hybrid (50g) or PHEVs like BMW 330e (49g), Prius Plug-in (44g) are compliant. Volvo, BMW, MB, Audi all released PHEVs band on target,  but Lexus is sleeping. Previously, based on old rules all 300h cars were eligible, because limit was 115g Co2/km. It is not coincidence IS300h makes exactly 114g Co2/km.

Anyway, what that means is - you can no longer choose any 300h as Salary Sacrifice, Car allowance or any other corporate scheme, because it doesn't have any tax advantage. Companies can still buy such cars for fleet and pay lower BIK then say on diesel cars, but lets be clear Lexus is not favourite fleet cars anyhow.

Thanks - so those adverts I see aimed at business users are still valid and you have no evidence to state that there have been zero sales to company car drivers since 2017.

Glad that's cleared up 😉

As an aside looking at sales, it would be interesting so see what's happened in the last 12 months. 

 

[Linas.P]

45 minutes ago, doog442 said:

Thanks - so those adverts I see aimed at business users are still valid

Depends what type of business users, the company itself - yes, the employees unlikely. Companies normally buys vans, trucks, tractors, not Lexus IS300h. Company director can theoretically buy IS300h as company asset, but that is minority. On normal corporate schemes you cannot have it...

56 minutes ago, noby76 said:

so countless threads later, on this same topic and you still have not grasped

I have not gasped?! I though it is me who is saying it... 

58 minutes ago, Jules PF said:

You can't afford a Bugatti....:)

Not you business and completely irrelevant.

1 hour ago, route66 said:

compared one to a BMW 320D performance comparable.

ohhh yeah, sure that's and achievement! If ask me IS300h is much better then BMW 320d, so much in fact that almost non-comparable, but that is just my opinion. 

[Rabbers]

Not having followed this thread for some days I was surprised by the peevish tone of some of the later posts, which is a pity since it was interesting

to hear from others who, like me, went from the IS250 to an IS300h.

My own decision to buy a 300h (MY2013) after two successive 250s (MYs 2011 and 2008) required little or no analysis when, after setting aside my

natural enthusiasm at the prospect of getting a new car,  I became objectively convinced in the course of a day-long test-drive that a hybrid - which

represented a form of technology then completely unfamiliar to me - was able to perform the duties I normally asked of my 250 just as well or perhaps

even better, and certainly more economically in terms of fuel consumption.   With direct comparison very much in mind, I focused on roads and 

situations that called for uninterrupted firm accelerations exemplified, for the most part, by approaches and entries to motorways, fast exits from

slow curves etc., many of which were so familiar to me that I could concentrate pretty much undistractedly on how the car was handling and behaving.

And, as I was later to confirm with ownership, it quickly became clear that the 300h reached and easily exceeded legal speeds of 110-130kmh from,

say, 60-70kmh in an appreciably more linear, seamless and quiet - and therefore, to me, more satisfactory and pleasurable - fashion than the 250.

In fact, while waiting for delivery of my 300h over the next few weeks, I found myself falling out of love with the 250,  judging the ride to be choppier

and too noisy by comparison.  And although the shifts were no more perceptible or any less predictable than those of any other good automatic

box I had ever experienced,  the test-drive of the 300h had obviously given me a taste - which I have never lost - for the e-CVT.   Any comparison of

how the 250 and 300h perform at speeds higher than, say, 170-180kmh have in recent years been of little more than academic value even in Germany,

where increasingly heavy traffic and speed limits on longer and longer stretches of the autobahn network have made them difficult to keep up for

any length of time.   However, on a few occasions when the opportunity presented itself, I found the 300h easily reached its declared top speed of

210kmh (225kmh shown) in its customary smooth and linear way, and with a well-modulated graduality of response to pedal pressure that was

both pleasing and reassuring.  It would hold this speed quite steadily and comfortably if required, though I generally (and wisely) preferred to return

to a cruising speed of 160kmh or so, which it could keep up all day very happily.   As, indeed, could the 250, which, however, had a tendency, with the

accelerator floored for what always seemed to me to be an unhealthy length of time, to hesitate at around 190kmh before slowly creeping up, if 

ever required, towards a top speed of around 225kmh (235kmh shown).   At these higher speeds it did not feel as safe as the 300h, an impression

 not helped by an alarming level of wind noise.   That the declared 0-100kmh acceleration figures favoured the 250 (8.2' v. 8.6') held little practical

meaning for me since I have rarely felt the temptation to race away from lights or shorten the life of my tyres or unnecessarily slurp petrol.  However,

the availability of a usually empty stretch of straight road close to where I live enables me to time cars over the 0-1000kmh distance, which I have

generally done by moving off for a couple of car-lengths before flooring the accelerator.   On a similar number of occasions, each of my IS250s, the                                                                                             

300h and my present RC300h clocked times of one or a maximum of two seconds either side of 29'.  The 250 had the best average, maybe by 0.5',                                                 

but, since I cannot see this as being of any practical significance, I offer it purely for the record.

 

[dutchie01]

On 5/22/2018 at 6:01 PM, noby76 said:

Yes He @Linas.P keeps going on about how crappy of an engine the 300h is when official performance figures from Lexus confirms there is nothing between his IS250 when compared to the 300h in them in terms of 0-60 and rolling acceleration and power to weight ratio.. 250 better it by 15mph at top end but thats because the 300h's Top end speed has been artificially capped.  he even claimed the IS200T is crappy aswell. we have have this discussion numerous times on different threads so this is not new... an IS-F will solve his problem but he claims is overkill but IS300H/200T models with reasonable performance are crappy..

He sounds very much like my missus complains about everything but offer her a solution and she doesn't take it and keeps on complaining...

@Linas.P, Get yourself an IS-F and put this IS300H hatred to bed once and for all.. 

It has been thesame pattern in multiple threads over time. Linass writes down a polarized opinion, other readers react to this and The Linas Conflict is born, he seems to thrive on conflict and hijacks the thread with a constant agressive and sometimes offending diarrhea of opinions. As long as others bite he will continue. 

i have been reading this blog less and less over time and that is the reason why. 

On topic i drove a 250 for 4 years and a 300 for 3. Both great cars in my opinion. 250 more refined and 300 more modern.

250 - buttersmooth engine but a little too weak for a six, not enough torque below 4000rpm, chassis a bit choppy and when really pushing the car it starts to fall through, steering too slow and brakes too weak, but a great cruiser with bankvault like buildquality. The 300 is newer and has a better overall package, roomier. Chassis lightyears better can handle many more horses. accelleration from standstill to some 40mph is way faster than the 250, above that it starts to slip. Both enjoyable but heavy drives . you cant go wrong with either of them really. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glover]

I can't understand the obsession with 0-60 acceleration times.  The important figures are acceleration whilst the car is moving e.g. 30-50, 40-60 etc.  I hope I'm not misquoting Rayaans here and it is a different car but I'm sure he provided figures that the RX450h although slower than a Porsche Cayenne to 60 beats it in the important real life overtaking speeds. 

Personally I couldn't care less if my car wins the traffic light Grand Prix but on a single carriageway A road I like to spend as little time as possible on the opposite side of the road. The beauty of the hybrid is the added punch given by the electric motor and the seamless way the car uses it when required so I'm out and back in as quickly and safely as possible.

I admit I haven't driven a IS300h but I had a short test drive in the GS300h, which I assume is a similar engine and motor and it certainly wasn't lacking punch.

Finally I really can't understand the comments about CVT drone.  Accelerating it's a different but not unpleasant noise (certainly not from the 3.5V6!) but cruising it is exceptionally quiet, regardless of speed.

[cidersteve]

nail on the head dutchie01, totally back of the net :)

[doog442]

On 5/29/2018 at 8:05 PM, dutchie01 said:

It has been thesame pattern in multiple threads over time. Linass writes down a polarized opinion, other readers react to this and The Linas Conflict is born, he seems to thrive on conflict and hijacks the thread with a constant agressive and sometimes offending diarrhea of opinions. As long as others bite he will continue. 

i have been reading this blog less and less over time and that is the reason why. 

 

'The Linas Conflict'. Sounds like some pseudo dodgy James Bond rip off film.

He's taken my car to the cleaners more times than I've taken my weddings / births and funerals suit.

Try having the misfortune of owning a new Lexus with a turbo, its the equivalent of stabbing yourself in the eye with a pencil in the Lexus world....spawn of the devil I tell ya. Yet back in the day we were falling over ourselves trying to get a turbo in a Lexus.  

I left on a few occasions but as I've been knocking around here for a decade or more its like trying to convince a cat he can't sleep on that old shed roof that he's been sleeping on for years. I keep popping back and yet again ..somewhere my car's been torn a new one , if not by Linas he's straight on it like a ferret up a drainpipe and sticking that size 10 in where it hurts.

bless..its about time you IS300h owners had some home grown truths 😉

[Thackeray]

18 hours ago, Glover said:

I can't understand the obsession with 0-60 acceleration times.  The important figures are acceleration whilst the car is moving e.g. 30-50, 40-60 etc.

It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks this. I have to say that I can't remember a single occasion, over many years of driving in many different cars, where I've accelerated on a normal road 0-60 at full throttle. As it's a feature I never use, I'm not interested in how long it takes.

I'm not sure that many other people are doing it either. I certainly never see them. Maybe I need to go out at 2am to see the people who are interested in this feature. So why car makers and reviewers keep emphasising this virtually unused feature is a mystery.

On the other hand, I join motorways at, say, 40 mph on the slip road and it's nice to get up to 70 as quickly as possible, particularly if there's heavy traffic going at 70 mph in the left lane. Being able to do this rapidly is a far more useful feature than being able to get from 0-60 two-tenths of a second faster than in another model.

18 hours ago, Glover said:

I really can't understand the comments about CVT drone.  Accelerating it's a different but not unpleasant noise (certainly not from the 3.5V6!) but cruising it is exceptionally quiet, regardless of speed.

Agree with this too. What I really like about the transmission is being able to cruise at almost any speed with the engine generally turning at around 1200 rpm.

[Linas.P]

Always funny to see snowflakes gasping for air after somebody dares to have different opinion (in this case about beloved 300h). Nobody is obsessed with 0-60 times, the matter is about the feeling. 

Even though @dutchie01 seems to have tired to direct shots on me, his summary of two cars is quite accurate and doesn't seems far away from what I am saying:

Quote

250 - buttersmooth engine but a little too weak for a six, not enough torque below 4000rpm, chassis a bit choppy and when really pushing the car it starts to fall through, steering too slow and brakes too weak, but a great cruiser with bankvault like buildquality. The 300 is newer and has a better overall package, roomier. Chassis lightyears better can handle many more horses. accelleration from standstill to some 40mph is way faster than the 250, above that it starts to slip. Both enjoyable but heavy drives . you cant go wrong with either of them really. 

In my opinion 300h chassis is slightly better at most (not light-years), acceleration from 10 to 30 is probably faster on 300h (not way, but just), but not from 0... but that is not key. What is key in my opinion is smoothness and build quality vs. more modern and efficient car. Everything after that are just personal values - if you value fuel efficiency more then you will be happy with 300h, but if you after smoothness and build quality then probably IS250.

My only point was that IS300h is not upgrade for IS250 in all aspects, instead it mostly boils down to fuel efficiency and generally being more modern, somewhat not surprising when comparing 2005 and 2013 design. However, if you like me found IS250 lacking power already, then IS300h is even worse in the aspect - that seems to be some sort of taboo or childhood wound to mention that on IS mk3 forum.

The only opinion allowed here seems to be politically corrected one - IS300h is in all aspects, in any way and by far, by light years better then IS250... why?! just because.

[noby76]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

My only point was that IS300h is not upgrade for IS250 in all aspects, instead it mostly boils down to fuel efficiency and generally being more modern, somewhat

This is where you loose the target... the IS300h is not sold as an upgrade to the gen 2 IS250.  The gen3 IS250 is the upgrade to the gen 2IS250 not the IS300h.. as others have said its more modern, has a lot more toys and chassis feels tight and sure footed and handles better than gen2 IS250 thats where the upgrade lies between the two models. you have been looking at the wrong model(IS300h) all this while... you need an upgrade? go for the Gen3 IS250 and wont loose smoothness but will gain extra... 

[J Henderson]

You'll also gain nearly 100kg, making it even slower and more thirsty than a 2nd-gen one.

[rayaans]

29 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

You'll also gain nearly 100kg, making it even slower and more thirsty than a 2nd-gen one.

Well thats not true

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1412672847141003M1ISTECHNICALSPECIFICATIONS.pdf

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1319282850tech_spec.pdf

25kg at most.

[J Henderson]

1645kg is the weight listed for all the Approved used Gen-3 IS250s currently for sale.

1570kg is stated to be the weight for a 2005-2010 one. 2011+ models are lighter still at 1530kg.

That's something you're going to feel, and the official figures confirm it. CO2 Emmisions and consumption are both higher in the newer car when comparing like-for-like.

It's something I noticed last week when browsing, because I found it surprising that the weight difference would be so much. There were a few 250 F-Sports on sale so you could directly compare models with the same trim levels and wheel sizes, but it looks like they've been moved on.

 

[rayaans]

15 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

1645kg is the weight listed for all the Approved used Gen-3 IS250s currently for sale.

1570kg is stated to be the weight for a 2005-2010 one. 2011+ models are lighter still at 1530kg.

That's something you're going to feel, and the official figures confirm it. CO2 Emmisions and consumption are both higher in the newer car when comparing like-for-like.

It's something I noticed last week when browsing, because I found it surprising that the weight difference would be so much. There were a few 250 F-Sports on sale so you could directly compare models with the same trim levels and wheel sizes, but it looks like they've been moved on.

 

Are you seriously going to trust the Approved Used website though? Apparently some of the 4th gen RX Premier's have air suspension etc.

The toyota official documents say that there is only 25kg at most difference between the 3IS and 2IS for the 250.

[J Henderson]

There's also a number of errors in those official PDFs so I wouldn't place much faith in them.

 

[rayaans]

11 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

There's also a number of errors in those official PDFs so I wouldn't place much faith in them.

 

Like what?

They're official documents from Toyota UK. I highly doubt they're incorrect. 

[mpls]

Linas P..

 

On a motorway journey what is the RPM of the engine at say  constant 75mph on your IS250 ?

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, mpls said:

On a motorway journey what is the RPM of the engine at say  constant 75mph on your IS250 ?

Not sure ~2.3-2.5k RPM would be my guess. But then.. do you mean indicated on speedometer or actual/GPS speed? What size wheels? 16/17/18?

1645kg might be IS300h weight, not mk3 IS250... One way or another adding more weight on the car which in my opinion needs little bit more power for full joy won't improve anything.