Petrol ?

[mudplug]

Pulled into a Garage today to get some fuel (Petrol) and there were two pumps there, one for Unleaded and one for Super Unleaded, I just used the one I normally use which was Unleaded  but what's the difference between the two? is Super Unleaded better for the car?  I have a RX 400h 

[acer54]

I only use BP Ultimate in both of my cars, I never use supermarket fuel.

[sorcerer]

The Super Unleaded is there for people who have more money than sense and it'll make no difference whatsoever unless your engine is tuned for it, which yours and mine are not.

I've never used anything else except supermarket normal grade fuel or LPG in my cars and never had anything bad happen to the engine, even running an old Ford Granada (that I bought at 86k) up to 175k miles. Some people like the overpriced fuels because there's more additives and detergents in them but if that's your thing, it's probably better and cheaper to chuck some Redex in every now and then, or convert to LPG which is the cleanest fuel of the lot.

[rayaans]

Won't make any difference for an RX400h apart from cleaning out the engine a bit more. As above though, better off using Redex or similiar instead as its a cheaper way to do it. 

I generally use a decent brand of fuel, BP mainly just because they're all BP around here and they're usually cheaper than Shell/Esso around here anyway.

Not a fan of supermarket fuel as Ive had issues with it in the past.

[scudney]

I have always used momentum 99,used it in my IS200,using it in my IS250 f sport(nearest petrol station to me lol) and will occasionally use a bottle of red x when Tesco have them on offer for £2.Everyone to their own I suppose,happy using my choice so I do lol 😁 

[SLACKBLADDER]

Over the 40 odd years I've been driving I've gone to the cheapest there is  over a vast array of cars never had an issue 

[Hadrian]

I always use Shell unleaded, as they are the closest garage to me, and I get reward points.

There is a Sainsburys garage close by, but like others I avoid supermarket fuel.

[chris_fletcher]

I dont understand the reluctance/avoidance of using supermarket petrol, unleaded is BS EN 228 wherever it comes from. I almost always use supermarkets and in 40 years driving have never had a problem or noticed any difference. I have read that most unleaded in the UK is E5 (5% ethanol) but I have never noticed this on the pumps but will check next time I fill up. Maybe I have had E5 and E0 but as I said can never tell any difference in the perfomance between different filling stations. I cant remember the last time I didnt use a supermarket

[sorcerer]

48 minutes ago, chris_fletcher said:

I dont understand the reluctance/avoidance of using supermarket petrol, unleaded is BS EN 228 wherever it comes from

My argument exactly.

People seem to think that supermarket fuel is somehow inferior but they fail to understand that the production of petrol is very closely controlled to a very high standard. The tankers all get the same stuff to carry irrespective of where they are delivering it.

53 minutes ago, chris_fletcher said:

I have read that most unleaded in the UK is E5 (5% ethanol) but I have never noticed this on the pumps but will check next time I fill up.

That's correct. The ethanol is there to cut greenhouse gas emissions and I don't think pumps need to be labelled as such. However, since 2013 a revised BS EN228 has allowed oil companies to supply E10 (10% ethanol). I don't think many are using it yet but pumps that dispense it do have to be labelled thus:

UNLEADED PETROL 95 E10 Not suitable for all vehicles: consult vehicle manufacturer before use. BS EN 228

This is because the ethanol acts as a solvent and can destroy some seals, plastics and even metals. I remember reading that first-gen direct-injection engines have some aluminium content in the pumps and it's incompatible with ethanol.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, chris_fletcher said:

I dont understand the reluctance/avoidance of using supermarket petrol, unleaded is BS EN 228 wherever it comes from. I almost always use supermarkets and in 40 years driving have never had a problem or noticed any difference. I have read that most unleaded in the UK is E5 (5% ethanol) but I have never noticed this on the pumps but will check next time I fill up. Maybe I have had E5 and E0 but as I said can never tell any difference in the perfomance between different filling stations. I cant remember the last time I didnt use a supermarket

It's not usually the fuel itself that's the issue. It's the additives added to it afterwards which makes the difference and there is some evidence out there to suggest that supermarket fuels = reduced long term economy be it through lack of cleaning the engine well enough or other factors.

I know that my wife's previous car didn't like supermarket fuel - specifically sainsburys and would idle at 500 rpm more on it. The RX has a subtle shivering to it on tesco fuel when started cold and certainly doesn't feel the same. 

Have you ever noticed your cars feeling better when a fresh tank of fuel is put in? its hard to explain but it drives smoother and has better response - it's similiar to that and subtle enough that some people won't notice it, others just won't care

[julian1969]

I try and do 3 fills of supermarket to 1 fill of shell V-Power. Most tests I've seen say this is the better 'posh fuel' out there but I'm sure a shot of redex would do the same thing to keep my fuel system clean, it's just easier to pop into shell and fill 'er up.

Never really noticed much of a difference whatever petrol I put in, maybe a tiny amount of extra oomph and a bit longer between fill ups but certainly not enough to warrant the cost of a constant vpower diet..

[chris_fletcher]

Sorry Rayaans I think you are wrong. The petrol has to meet the British standard. Normal unleaded should be the same wherever you buy it hence meeting BS EN228, ethanol content being the potential unknown factor. Higher ethanol % could be the cause of higher consumption

[rayaans]

15 hours ago, chris_fletcher said:

Sorry Rayaans I think you are wrong. The petrol has to meet the British standard. Normal unleaded should be the same wherever you buy it hence meeting BS EN228, ethanol content being the potential unknown factor. Higher ethanol % could be the cause of higher consumption

Yes, the petrol itself has to meet a british standard. But, what they add afterwards is different. All have different formulations and I can guarantee that Asda add less additives than Shell for example.

Just because its a minimum standard, doesn't mean that some fuels are not exceeding those standards

[Britprius]

The law allows for up to 5% ethanol to be added to fuel without any notification at the pumps. If the fuel contains more than 5% ethanol it is required that the percentage is shown clearly on the pump. 

Ethanol has a lower calorific value than petrol, and as such reduces the mpg of fuel when added. Ethanol also dissolves some plastics, and paintwork. Problems have arisen with motor bikes, and boats with plastic fuel tanks.

John.

[Guest]

I think it's other way. Unleaded has to contain 5 percent. Super doesn't. That's what I understood from fuel company replies for info.

True about negative effects.

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[Britprius]

21 hours ago, Comedian said:

I think it's other way. Unleaded has to contain 5 percent. Super doesn't. That's what I understood from fuel company replies for info.

True about negative effects.

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The requirement to add 5% ethanol does not cover all suppliers. Those companies that supply below a certain number of ltrs per year, "and I cannot remember what that figure is" are exempt. If you are lucky enough to live by such an independent filling station you can buy ethanol free fuel that will give more mpg.

John.

[Guest]

The requirement to add 5% ethanol does not cover all suppliers. Those companies that supply below a certain number of ltrs per year, "and I cannot remember what that figure is" are exempt. If you are lucky enough to live by such an independent filling station you can buy ethanol free fuel that will give more mpg.
John.

Thank you for that. Really worth looking into for people with older kit and bikes.

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[Passerby]

Best bit of advice I've received was to never fill up at a petrol station with a tanker in residence... If they have just filled up the stations tanks then they will also have stirred up any crap in the tanks.....

[Verbout]

I’m a supermarket fuel user, not knowingly had any issues.

But as a test I’m going to try the super “snake oil” some of you recommend.

I’m heading to the south coast in a few weeks, a trip that’ll be +600 miles. 

I’ll fill up with super duper to see if the car runs any better, to satisfy my own curiosity more than anything.

[Guest]

I don't think it's that straight-forward

If you buy BP Ultimate you are getting BP Ultimate. If you fill up at Esso you will get Esso. The difference being the additive package. Stuff that helps clean and lubricate or improve MPG etc. 

Snake oil? Maybe some of it is marketing bullcrap but I am confident over-all we get good quality fuel from our branded suppliers. 

Supermarkets as far as we know shop around for the cheapest fuel. One month that may be a tanker of BP or Esso but there is talk of it sometimes coming from abroad. Maybe older batch? Who really knows who's prepared to say?

These occasional blips in quality may lead to the anecdotal evidence of people claiming their cars did not run as well on supermarket fuel.

And herein lies the problem for me - you don't actually know what you're putting in. Kind of petrol lucky dip. So if you've never had an issue and are happy with supermarket fuel I don't see a reason to change. It's very unlikely anyone will put long term damage down to fuel or lack of it to good fuel, so the answer, without lots of independent expensive testing, is likely to remain a mystery.

 

[Linas.P]

On 5/15/2018 at 11:36 PM, rayaans said:

Have you ever noticed your cars feeling better when a fresh tank of fuel is put in? its hard to explain but it drives smoother and has better response - it's similiar to that and subtle enough that some people won't notice it, others just won't care

Certainly does, I have been ridiculed by my friends when few times for claiming it.

As for car not liking certain types or batches of fuel, It happened only twice for me. Once on Tesco Momentum 99 and once on Shell standard. Funny enough my car has best MPG on local ASDA fuel, which consitenly gets me ~0.5MPG more for tank average.

As for long term cleaning, premium fuel only reduces/slows down build-up of dirt, so instead I prefer saving money on fuel (or any generic products) and then spending it on proper engine carbon cleaning with hydrogen (or similar) once every 2 years.

Finally, any fuel.. cheap or expensive, supermarket or branded.. have and will meet minimum standards required. Don't forget fuel is very cheap (almost same prices as generic bottled water), current price ~122p -20% VAT - 57.95p duty ~ 38p/L, so for supermarket buying in bulk it makes very little difference what fuel they order with what type of additives - it only becomes expensive for us, end user. I reckon it often exceeds standards "just in case", because if say Tesco or whatever other supplier would be found selling sub-standard fuel, the negative publicity, never-mind legal liability would far outweigh benefits of cheeping-out on fuel. Most of "branded" stations are actually franchises and BP station might not even get BP fuel, there is nothing stopping them from shopping around as well. Finally, except of specific cases where refinery of specific brand is nearby, very same tankers of Shell, BP, Esso, Tesco will be getting their load from same refinery.

[DanD]

Given factors such as external temperature, residual fuel and possibly others, are you sure your calculations are that precise that they would pick up a difference of only 0.5mpg?

This is purely a question, as it seems to be such a small variance.

 

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