Fake News: The RCF is Heavy or is it...

[tomRCFcarbon]

I've been a subscriber to Evo magazine for about 10 years and have fallen out of love with it many times...the first time was when it was clear that Metcalfe had lost his mojo...the second was when it was clear that Chris Harris had become cynical and resentful of the whole industry...then there were the Nick Trott years - schoolboy doing a mans job...and more recently its got good-ish again. However what is clear is that you have to read between the lines as much as anything...the advertisers have such an influence over what gets written it is almost a joke. For example partway through an otherwise innocent group test suddenly the writer starts waxing lyrical about the location and hotel or talking randomly about the quality of the micheline tyres or how they couldn't live without their simoniz shampoo - flick to a few pages later and you'll notice the magazine features a large advert from said hotel, shampoo or tyre manufacturer. The other thing that happens A LOT is a good review but only 3 stars (RCF). Or an average to good review but 5 stars (M4).

Which brings me to Lexus. My friend attended the launch of the LC500 (he filmed the various YouTube promo video's and the TV advert) and he was talking to the client about why they were spending so much money (F1 driver for the week, F1 circuit for the week - each journalist flown first class, given a weeks holiday after the road/track test, partners invited, etc, etc) and he explained that they learnt their lesson on the launch of the RCF where they 'only' flew journalists to NYC, paid only for cattle class tickets and flew people back the same or following day...it was this and the German car lobby that resulted in the average reviews...when you then look into the facts of the cars weight it becomes clear that the car has become the subject of some 'fake-news'!

It was obvious to me at the time that reading between the lines the reviews didn't add up, take a look below...

Audi RS4                                       1,715 kg

Lexus RCF Carbon                      1,736 kg

Nissan GTR                                  1,752 kg

Lexus RCF                                    1,765 kg

Honda NSX                                   1,776 kg

Ford Mustang                               1,818 kg

Mercedes Benz C63S Coupe      1,858 kg

These are from my judicious Google-ing, no doubt other searches could bring back slightly different results, but clearly there are cars in the list above that have not suffered from similar criticisms and some that the exact opposite has been written about - I mean who knew that the Carbon tubbed 2 seat baby supercar NSX would be so heavy...clearly anyone who knows something about how heavy batteries and the associated tech are shouldn't be surprised, but not one review of that car has said that the handling or throttle response have been made to feel 'dead' by the weight.

Spread the word.

[Mark G]

I stopped listening to motoring journalists a long time ago, its an opinion from a person I don't know, his experience,driving talent,mechanical knowledge in a lot of cases are unknown, some have other agendas..............

I drive the car and form my own opinion and trust it.

[Guest]

Agree with that Mark - journalists seem to just write a story one could make up by playing Top Trumps and filling in the gaps with a bit of motoring cliche.

The actual downside is, people who do listen to them discount the F's for no other reason than they get their opinions from the TV, rather than forming their own.

[Big Rat]

I’ve said this in here about motoring journalists more times than I care to remember, most simply lie for a living.

A friend has a V8 four door M3 a car specced to almost as is as standard for an ISF of the same year 2009, it also has a full size spare and kit.

It weighs 15 kg more than an isF......

🐀

[JonP]

The RC-F isn't heavy, it's those bumpers making it look fat....

[Guest]

The RC-F isn't heavy, it's those bumpers making it look fat....

I think you mean curvy ;)

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[JonP]

2 minutes ago, Comedian said:

I think you mean curvy ;)

or thick?

[Stuno1]

Do you have the cf rcf weight correct? Isn’t it 10kg less than the stock rcf? Either way it’s splitting hairs. Pretty sure I mentioned it on here that when looking at the v8 c63 coupe weight it was 1725kg. That made me look more closely at the rcf. Also as mentioned previously 5th gear to a series of 3 head to head rests with the rcf and m4 and the rcf did epically well. It is to my mind the best package compared to rivals. People are hung up on German cars and have been for years and for me it puts me off them just like it does with Porsche.

I really do believe the rcf will go down as an epic car. Just like the isf is starting to. Many conversations on PH about the rcf and not one owner shoots it down. I like buying the ‘underdog’ especially when it is actually not! To be fair tonlexus they added some bad ***** brakes to the car when bmw didn’t anyway i digress.

We know what they are, how capable they are, how well made they are, how reliable they are etc. That’s what matters. I am sure when I buy one the most common question will be ‘why didn’t you buy and m3 or c63’ but I will be happy in the knowledge the person asking the question has not researched the cars in question and as such probably has no idea what they are missing.

[Flytvr]

4 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

Do you have the cf rcf weight correct? Isn’t it 10kg less than the stock rcf? Either way it’s splitting hairs. Pretty sure I mentioned it on here that when looking at the v8 c63 coupe weight it was 1725kg. That made me look more closely at the rcf. Also as mentioned previously 5th gear to a series of 3 head to head rests with the rcf and m4 and the rcf did epically well. It is to my mind the best package compared to rivals. People are hung up on German cars and have been for years and for me it puts me off them just like it does with Porsche.

I really do believe the rcf will go down as an epic car. Just like the isf is starting to. Many conversations on PH about the rcf and not one owner shoots it down. I like buying the ‘underdog’ especially when it is actually not! To be fair tonlexus they added some bad ***** brakes to the car when bmw didn’t anyway i digress.

We know what they are, how capable they are, how well made they are, how reliable they are etc. That’s what matters. I am sure when I buy one the most common question will be ‘why didn’t you buy and m3 or c63’ but I will be happy in the knowledge the person asking the question has not researched the cars in question and as such probably has no idea what they are missing.

People compare the base RCF’s weight against the RCF-CE, but don’t include the TVD etc. You can only compare cars when spec is like to like - as Ratty’s example of the M3.

[JonP]

Dammit, @Stuno1  stop talking them up, I don't want the rest of the world to catch on until I can afford to upgrade my ISF. 

I'm obviously not jealous of  @Tom @Flytvr @Big Rat and the others, you understand.... 

At all....

Much....

[Flytvr]

3 hours ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

I've been a subscriber to Evo magazine for about 10 years and have fallen out of love with it many times...the first time was when it was clear that Metcalfe had lost his mojo...the second was when it was clear that Chris Harris had become cynical and resentful of the whole industry...then there were the Nick Trott years - schoolboy doing a mans job...and more recently its got good-ish again. However what is clear is that you have to read between the lines as much as anything...the advertisers have such an influence over what gets written it is almost a joke. For example partway through an otherwise innocent group test suddenly the writer starts waxing lyrical about the location and hotel or talking randomly about the quality of the micheline tyres or how they couldn't live without their simoniz shampoo - flick to a few pages later and you'll notice the magazine features a large advert from said hotel, shampoo or tyre manufacturer. The other thing that happens A LOT is a good review but only 3 stars (RCF). Or an average to good review but 5 stars (M4).

Which brings me to Lexus. My friend attended the launch of the LC500 (he filmed the various YouTube promo video's and the TV advert) and he was talking to the client about why they were spending so much money (F1 driver for the week, F1 circuit for the week - each journalist flown first class, given a weeks holiday after the road/track test, partners invited, etc, etc) and he explained that they learnt their lesson on the launch of the RCF where they 'only' flew journalists to NYC, paid only for cattle class tickets and flew people back the same or following day...it was this and the German car lobby that resulted in the average reviews...when you then look into the facts of the cars weight it becomes clear that the car has become the subject of some 'fake-news'!

It was obvious to me at the time that reading between the lines the reviews didn't add up, take a look below...

Audi RS4                                       1,715 kg

Lexus RCF Carbon                      1,736 kg

Nissan GTR                                  1,752 kg

Lexus RCF                                    1,765 kg

Honda NSX                                   1,776 kg

Ford Mustang                               1,818 kg

Mercedes Benz C63S Coupe      1,858 kg

These are from my judicious Google-ing, no doubt other searches could bring back slightly different results, but clearly there are cars in the list above that have not suffered from similar criticisms and some that the exact opposite has been written about - I mean who knew that the Carbon tubbed 2 seat baby supercar NSX would be so heavy...clearly anyone who knows something about how heavy batteries and the associated tech are shouldn't be surprised, but not one review of that car has said that the handling or throttle response have been made to feel 'dead' by the weight.

Spread the word.

As interesting as the above data is, you can’t just talk weight. Yes, the RCF may  be a similar weight to the NSX, but the NSX has bags more performance.

[JonP]

Yes, but the NSX is a Honda. May be a hybrid hypercar however it's obviously closely related to my wife's Jazz and therefore has to be considered inferior.... 

Wanders off wondering what was in that coffee I just drank....

[Stuno1]

3 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

People compare the base RCF’s weight against the RCF-CE, but don’t include the TVD etc. You can only compare cars when spec is like to like - as Ratty’s example of the M3.

So how much smokes the CE actually weigh? Even Lexus site says it’s only 9.5kg lighter than the stock car.

[Flytvr]

4 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

So how much smokes the CE actually weigh? Even Lexus site says it’s only 9.5kg lighter than the stock car.

EVO says 15kg. 

I suspect they are comparing the RCF-CE against a standard car with Flinstone diff 😜

[JonP]

smoking flinstones.... I thought I'd had too much coffee

[Stuno1]

6 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

EVO says 15kg. 

I suspect they are comparing the RCF-CE against a standard car with Flinstone diff 😜

An ok so tvd is lighter than rock based dif? To be fair with just back box change that’s 30kg weight saving which is not to be sniffed at. 

[Guest]

EVO says 15kg. 
I suspect they are comparing the RCF-CE against a standard car with Flinstone diff [emoji12]

Yes the lighter indestructible diff that doesn't cost extra to service.

Logic fail: I want a much lighter car and will pay 5k extra. Yes please fit that much heavier diff.

Can't take it out in the wet or sunshine? Ok will just pop to the sea side in the dark ;)

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

An ok so tvd is lighter than rock based dif? To be fair with just back box change that’s 30kg weight saving which is not to be sniffed at. 

No TVD is heavier

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[NemesisUK]

Government logic of vehicle weights definition ..

"Vehicle weights explained

Vehicle categories on driving licences can depend on the weight of the vehicle - the different terms you might see are explained below.

Unladen weight

The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It doesn’t include the weight of:

• fuel
• batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair"

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained

Just an example on how confusing it is to compare vehicle weights, manufacturers generally only quote the vehicle base weight, that is the weight of the base model without options fitted.

[tomRCFcarbon]

Jesus. You guys are as bad as the journalists!!!

The point isn’t that we need to argue over every last 5kg - I’ve lost more than that in the last 6 months!!! - more that for all the grief the car got about being grossly overweight, the reality is there is f*ck all difference amongst them all. Especially when you get into the different ways of weighing the cars, options, etc etc etc. 

[Flytvr]

16 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Yes the lighter indestructible diff that doesn't cost extra to service.

Logic fail: I want a much lighter car and will pay 5k extra. Yes please fit that much heavier diff.

Can't take it out in the wet or sunshine? Ok will just pop to the sea side in the dark ;)

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

I can’t comment. I only bought a car with TVD because I’m a **** driver and need all the help I can get.

And yep, I only drive it at night because I’m so embarrassed to own an RCF-CE 😜

[Guest]

I can’t comment. I only bought a car with TVD because I’m a **** driver and need all the help I can get.
And yep, I only drive it at night because I’m so embarrassed to own an RCF-CE [emoji12]

No argument. ;)

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[Tfp]

26 minutes ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

The point isn’t that we need to argue over every last 5kg - I’ve lost more than that in the last 6 months!!! - more that for all the grief the car got about being grossly overweight, the reality is there is f*ck all difference amongst them all. Especially when you get into the different ways of weighing the cars, options, etc etc etc. 

Most of the reviews I've read compare the RC-F to an M4 which is a fair bit lighter, hence they're labeling the RC-F as heavy I suppose.

For me the M4 is just too common and too "Bmw same same" on the inside.

What I love about the RC-F after 4 weeks of ownership is that everyone has to ask what it is?

My last car that was stupidly quick and agile, was just an ordinary looking car that all my friends thought must have been my wifes car (Audi TT)

The RC-F has so much more presence than many cars, I've seen so many people staring at it more than most of cars I've had before.

For me the comparison was also a ten year old Aston for the same price, I went for the much newer, and more reliable, motor. And also rarer.

[Guest]

Jesus. You guys are as bad as the journalists!!!

The point isn’t that we need to argue over every last 5kg - I’ve lost more than that in the last 6 months!!! - more that for all the grief the car got about being grossly overweight, the reality is there is f*ck all difference amongst them all. Especially when you get into the different ways of weighing the cars, options, etc etc etc. 

This is what we do. Argue endlessly over minutiae to no avail. :)

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[Flytvr]

42 minutes ago, Comedian said:

No argument. ;)

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Mind you, I have heard of a TVD equipped F up against a flintestone diff equipped RCF. Apparently, ‘Fred’ didn’t even know which way the TVD equipped car went.

Of course, it could have been down to driver skill. Who knows 😜