My First "Lexus": 1992 Toyota Celsior C-Spec

[runsgrateasanut]

Did the car actually drive with that terrible solder in job?

Looks like the person just snipped the Caps and attached shortened new ones to the blob of solder. 

I suppose that this could reduce the risk of messing the layer in the PCB but it doesn't look too clever as you need to leave at least a couple of mm min to be able to solder the Cap. This said the heat would disturb the whole solder blob throughout I'd have thought.

 

[runsgrateasanut]

On 5/5/2018 at 1:24 AM, Schaefft said:

Very cool, and it looks clean! Can you tell me if there are any relevant differences between the Celsior and LS400 that I should be aware of, i.e. timing belts or specific parts/electronics apart from TEMS and air suspension?

My K Reg car Mk 2 (to my knowledge)  was built in April 1993 and has 16" wheels though replaced by Lexus IS wheels since. You need to be aware that the Timing Belts for these cars do have a very small variation but one which is critical.  One extra tooth to the belt for one year car. Sorry I can't recall exactly which cars have which, but I do remember counting the Teeth before my Mechanic replaced the Belt and all other parts.  Ordered from Lexus with VIN number you can then be sure of the right belt.  Parts? I'd buy elsewhere as I paid over £600 for Cam belt and pulleys, Waterpump etc., from Lexus.  Buy parts t'bay USA for a better deal.

ps Spongy Brakes were IMO a death trap on my Lexus and I had all parts replaced and S/S flexi pipes and now fantastic stopping power I can trust.. 

[Schaefft]

On 5/20/2018 at 1:45 PM, runsgrateasanut said:

Did the car actually drive with that terrible solder in job?

Looks like the person just snipped the Caps and attached shortened new ones to the blob of solder. 

I suppose that this could reduce the risk of messing the layer in the PCB but it doesn't look too clever as you need to leave at least a couple of mm min to be able to solder the Cap. This said the heat would disturb the whole solder blob throughout I'd have thought.

 

The car did drive since nobody replaced any capacitors on the ECU yet, the bad soldering job you see in the photos is on the instrument cluster circuit boards, I hope they are in decent enough condition to clean them up professionally and solder the new capacitors on there.

About the timing belt: The previous owner actually told me the same when he had the car at the Lexus dealer to get the belt checked. I didn't quite believe it but I guess its true! Do you know if that belt difference is because its a different model year, or because its a JDM market Celsior?

From what I can find on eBay, there's one with 211 Teeth:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Timing-Belt-Cam-Belt-for-TOYOTA-CELSIOR-4-0-93-00-CHOICE1-2-1UZ-FE-Saloon-ADL-/371901202981?hash=item56970a0225

And one with 209 Teeth:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-TOYOTA-SOARER-V8-SC-LS400-209-TOOTH-34mm-GATES-TIMING-BELT-T190-1356859045/292435985886?epid=1116058384&hash=item44168b05de:g:xjUAAOSwor1adh2r

The seller even mentions it in the description there. Considering the label on that belt doesn't mention the Celsior even though it lists other JDM only models, I assume I need the belt with 211 teeth.

[runsgrateasanut]

I suggest that you put the VIN number into Toyodiy  .com and you should get info as to the right spec Belt for your Car.  211 or 209 I thought there was only one tooth difference but you sure don't want to get it wrong.

Its an expensive enough job to have done.  Lexus parts didn't even provide a gasket for the water pump. Not happy with what it cost me. 

[Schaefft]

7 hours ago, runsgrateasanut said:

I suggest that you put the VIN number into Toyodiy  .com and you should get info as to the right spec Belt for your Car.  211 or 209 I thought there was only one tooth difference but you sure don't want to get it wrong.

Its an expensive enough job to have done.  Lexus parts didn't even provide a gasket for the water pump. Not happy with what it cost me. 

Checked the site, apparently mine was build in 08/92, and has the 209 tooth belt. Part # 1356859045 

[Schaefft]

Picked up both my ECU and instrument cluster circuit boards from Jim this morning and just installed them in the car. What can I say, he's done a brilliant job, the cluster is working 100% again and the ECU has gotten all 8 capacitors replaced as well now. Apparently it took him 3 hours to get both of them done as whoever worked on the cluster before screwed things up quite badly.  Very happy, and all done for only around a hundred quid including crazy postage costs for the capacitors I ordered. Hopefully both will last at least another 25 years again.☺️ Thanks again for the tip, Jim's a great guy, quite into Lexus', too. I can only highly recommend him!

[steve2006]

Did he not do the needle tips?

Are you sure you have spring suspension? The dash display suggests air suspension which was standard on the C-F spec models it should also have reclining massaging rear seats.

[Schaefft]

12 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Did he not do the needle tips?

Are you sure you have spring suspension? The dash display suggests air suspension which was standard on the C-F spec models it should also have reclining massaging rear seats.

No, I didn't think about the needles since I haven't seen them light up before. I might do it myself at a later date.

The car definitely has steel springs now, originally it had air suspension but the previous owner just replaced them with conventional shocks. I'd like to convert it back to what it was before, but I doubt I will find the parts in decent condition for a reasonable price anytime soon. No electric massaging seats in the back unfortunately, those only came in the top of the line trim.

In other news, the alternator just died due to the typical power steering fluid leak from the pump, doesn't charge the Battery anymore.😥 Can anyone tell me if I need to get a completely new pump, or whether they are rebuildable? Same for the alternator.

[Newbie1]

Both can be rebuilt. Any alternator place can do the alternator. Rock Auto in the US sell replacement pumps, too, and might sell a rebuild kit as I bought one for my UCF20 from them.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,1990,ls400,4.0l+v8,1187456,steering,power+steering+pump,7380

It would be cheaper to import a UCF10 Celsior with working air suspension than buying the lot from Toyota.

[Schaefft]

59 minutes ago, Newbie1 said:

Both can be rebuilt. Any alternator place can do the alternator. Rock Auto in the US sell replacement pumps, too, and might sell a rebuild kit as I bought one for my UCF20 from them.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,1990,ls400,4.0l+v8,1187456,steering,power+steering+pump,7380

It would be cheaper to import a UCF10 Celsior with working air suspension than buying the lot from Toyota.

Yeah, already had a look on Rockauto, the problem is that I cannot send them my core, so I'd have to buy them full price. I'd prefer to buy them over here somewhere really if it makes sense cost wise.

[Schaefft]

Looks like Toyota/Lexus is offering a PS pump gasket kit and bearing, part # 90363-17007, 04446-50011/04446-30171 (not being able to change the color of the background in this forum is pretty annoying btw...). Did anyone try to order them here in the UK before? Since getting the pump from Rockauto seems the only way to fix the leak at the moment, I'd at least like to try finding out if I can rebuild the pump myself first.

[Schaefft]

I've just found out that 0444630173 seems to replace both PS pump gasket kit part numbers above, and is available from the dealer for about 41£ incl. VAT. The bearing (90363-17007) is 35£ incl. VAT. Since that's 76£ just for the parts (won't get the bearing before mid June), just ordering a rebuild PS pump might be the best option here. 😕 

[39buss]

I thought the "O" rings leaking onto the alternator were the culprit on early models and only cost coppers and available from Lexus.

You're more than welcome.  I've had some great advice/info from the LOC. Jim can talk for England about cars but glad it's done and working.

[runsgrateasanut]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with replacing parts and rebuilding.  I bought a new Power Steering pump from America and I've mentioned elsewhere that they sent me the wrong pump so I now have the right one fitted and a free Tacoma pump for a Toyota (Hilux?).  I also bought an alternator from different people who I'll put a link to below.  It came pretty quickly and works fine.  For the price you will see its possibly best to go for new.  One proviso, and I can't be sure they are the same product, is that I couldn't get the screw in bolt at the front (through the Pump pulley) to go in as the casing had a slight variation in design.  The thing hangs on an extended bolt and there are two bolts at rear so I have no worries, but I have ordered a bolt with Phillips head rather than nut and Washer shape, to fit, sometime. 

https://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow/1993/Lexus/LS400/Power_Steering_Pump/86-00424_AN

[runsgrateasanut]

ps The new pump has the Vacuum lines blanked off which makes absolutely no difference that i can sense to the PS. Just need to blank off the two pipes one in centre of engine to ACV and one in side of Air inflow conduit.  Its also a fact that this twin piped part is often the cause of leakage as well as the Reservoir O ring

[Schaefft]

Getting a PS pump from Rockauto is no problem, its just that things get a little more expensive once you add customs fees, postage, VAT and so on to it. If it only was 40 quid more to buy a new one I would do it, but with all the fees added its quickly becoming more sensible to rebuild it. The parts are more expensive than they should be, but its probably still only half of what a rebuilt one would cost when ordered in the states.

I will wait for a quote from a company on eBay who rebuilds them, if that is silly money I'll order one on Rockauto.

The alternator should hopefully be rebuildable, the parts for it all seem to be available and reasonably priced (since I dont have to buy them from the dealer). The cheapest one I can find is 110£, rebuilding it will 30 quid max.

[Schaefft]

I've spent my afternoon yesterday and today removing the alternator and power steering pump. I never want to do this job again (not without a lift and exactly the tools I need to do the job anyway). It was almost impossible to remove the alternator without removing as many things as possible around it. The instructions say its easiest when it is lifted out from underneath the car, but I cannot think of a way how this would ever be possible, the anti roll bar sits exactly in the spot where the alternator would need to go through. So I lifted it out from the top of the engine bay, but I had to remove the fan fluid reservoir (why does this exist in the first place?!) first, otherwise that would block it from coming out. I also had to remove the heat shield while the alternator was still awkwardly hanging inside there which was a major pita due to poor accessibility. 

Removing the intake tubing and pump wheel, so far so good...

This is as far as it would come out, even with the reservoir gone.

At least with that out of the way removing the lower bolts on the power steering pump was easy, with the alternator in place this would have been next to impossible really. Contrary to the instructions, you cannot remove the pump reservoir before taking the pump off either, one of the nuts holding it in place touches the head/valve cover before it comes off.

Filthiest alternator ever.

All in all, really not something I enjoyed doing, especially with 25 years of oily grime covering absolutely everything. At least none of the bolts snapped which really would have ruined my day.

Thats what it looked like when I opened it up, definitely still was on its original brushes.

Can anyone tell me which parts I should order to rebuild the alternator apart from the brush holder and rectifier? The bearing seem perfect (probably around 100k miles on them) and the voltage regulator didnt seem to cause any issues before, I might replace it anyway. I dont think there is much else I can replace, is there? Is it a good idea to rebuild an alternator power steering leaked on in the first place?

 

[Newbie1]

A much braver (and more skilled) man than I. If it helps, I had my 1992 Soarer 1UZFE alternator rebuilt after the leakage problem, and it ran fine for years afterwards.

[Schaefft]

3 hours ago, Newbie1 said:

A much braver (and more skilled) man than I. If it helps, I had my 1992 Soarer 1UZFE alternator rebuilt after the leakage problem, and it ran fine for years afterwards.

From what I was told the only problem with leaking power steering fluid is that it'll cover the internals, causing them to get hotter than intended and potentially damaging the solder points. I have tested all components apart from the voltage regulator which you would need special tools for. Its the rectifier that has at least one dead diode on mine, causing it to not charge the Battery properly anymore. Very common problem. The brushes need replacing as well, they are almost at the end of their life. Both together are around 20£, I will also get a new regulator just in case which is another 24£. The bearings are all still perfect so I won't replace those either. All in all rebuilding it will cost me 45£ compared to the 110-125£ a remanufactured alternator would cost (and you dont know what components actually go replaced in those).

The power steering pump is a little trickier. I can't find the parts here in the UK, the dealer has them but they are too expensive to make it a viable option.

[runsgrateasanut]

Been there done it as to Alternator and Power Steering Pump.  Pig of a job.

Have to say I had no problem with the repalcement power steering pump until an incident yesterday. Done 1300 miles since.

Bear in mind it had the two pipe to ACV blanked off.  It's fine when its cold and  you don't notice any difference in the power steering when moving off, but when hot, trying to park last night, the steering became very heavy. I left it an hour or so and checked the level on my return and the level was fine.  Frothing inside?  I couldn't check  as late at night. No apparnat leak seen. Today, ran fine, nice and light on short journey.  I kept the twin valve thingy from the old P/S pump and maybe I'll ask my mechanic to fit it as I didn't like this heavy steering when hot.  Anyone else experienced similar with the balnked off valve? 

 

[runsgrateasanut]

PS The Car park could have become a bit tacky owing to the heat having been re-surfaced not so long ago? A possibility for the heavy steering? or not.

[Schaefft]

Good question, I really couldn't tell you what might have caused this problem.

Sorry for a lack of updates btw. I'm currently in the process of buying my first home so the Celsior was put lower on the priority list. I will start to order more parts soon to get it back on the road, I need to get it out of my apartment car park somewhat soonish after all haha.

[Schaefft]

A little update after a little while!

My rebuilt power steering pump for the Celsior arrived a few days ago, and I received all parts to rebuild the alternator myself on Thursday. That meant I had everything I needed to put everything in the enginebay back together. Here are a few photos I took during reassembling the alternator. These Denso alternators are extremely easy to take apart, you could probably replace all components that usually fail in about 10 minutes.

Some old vs. new shots. As a reminder, at least one of the diodes in the rectifier died:

Degreasing car parts in your bath tub is totally acceptable, right?

Alternator with new components installed:

All back together:

I've put both parts back into the car this afternoon, and things went much easier than removing them before. Not having to deal with a 1cm layer of oily grime definitely helped. The alternator went in first, no problems apart from one of the splash shield bolts mysteriously disappearing. No real issues with the PS pump either:

Since I had to remove one of the coolant hoses to get better access to the alternator I used the chance to replace the thermostat. Hose and accessory belt back on:

Air intake reassembled, replaced the old air filter while I had the chance. It needs a good clean and the Battery cover, but its looking decent again. I bled the coolant and power steering systems, had a moment of panic when smoke developed where the pump was sitting. Fortunately it was just ps fluid or degreaser burning off the exhaust manifold. I left the car running for half an hour to make sure there were no leaks, and from what I can tell everything looks perfect. Very happy, it was quite an exhausting day. Took me around 7 hours in total going at a relaxed pace.

Some left overs I have literally no clue about where they would fit. The 4 remaining bolts look familiar, I am fairly confident that they did not come out of the engine bay.

I still need to find a set of reasonably priced (as in under 500 quid) BC coilovers to replace the old completely shot suspension. It turned out to be not much more expensive than going with original new parts, and BC is offering some absolutely amazing hardware that doesn't compromise ride comfort too much while still giving you the option to adjust ride height.

[jpjsavage]

As someone with minimal mechanical skill (but a little knowledge), I can only stand amazed at the job you have done here! Great work and hope the new alternator and pump give you many happy years of motoring in the LS.

[The-Acre]

Well done you, looking forward to the next instalment!