Rcf as hard to tune as the isf?

[Stuno1]

I assume the rcf is as difficult to tune as the isf? When I say this I mean £££ needed for decent gains. To get good gains from the isf it needs headers, decat and aftermarket exhaust then a tune. Is the rcf the same? 

Research suggests it is but am am I correct? 

Stu

[NemesisUK]

I would say any naturally aspirated engine is 'hard to tune' i.e. expensive.

Blown engines are much easier to get more from.

[Stuno1]

That’s what I thought until I researched he v8 Merc amg. You can get 50hp ish with a tune alone and run the car safely at that hp. Which is just over 500hp at the fly wheel. 

[GibletPH]

2 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

That’s what I thought until I researched he v8 Merc amg. You can get 50hp ish with a tune alone and run the car safely at that hp. Which is just over 500hp at the fly wheel. 

It was detuned from factory which is why the gains are so high from a remap on the M156 engine. 

[Mark G]

When you say "a tune" Stu, what is that?

[Stuno1]

5 minutes ago, GibletPH said:

It was detuned from factory which is why the gains are so high from a remap on the M156 engine. 

Appreciate that and it’s a bigger capacity engine but still great to know the power can be had for as little as £500.

 

4 minutes ago, Mark G said:

When you say "a tune" Stu, what is that?

In this instance an ecu tune.

https://www.quantumtuning.co.uk/car-remap-tuning-remapping.aspx?&make=Lexus&range=RC F

[Mark G]

3 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

Appreciate that and it’s a bigger capacity engine but still great to know the power can be had for as little as £500.

 

In this instance an ecu tune.

https://www.quantumtuning.co.uk/car-remap-tuning-remapping.aspx?&make=Lexus&range=RC F

OK I see where you are coming from, I think the Rcf/Gsf will be just as difficult to extract significant power increases from, as for a remap I just don't see how anyone can extract much of an increase from a NA engine, Quantum are claiming 15%-35%, how? that's between71bhp and 166bhp I just don't believe its possible.

[mrfunex]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the V8 in the original C63s were detuned to stop it (power wise) stepping on the toes of other, more expensive ‘63s. I think Mercedes essentially limited the throttle opening to about 90%, which was undone if you bought the Black series version. 

I suppose this might be the reason why a simple ECU flash would liberate another 55-60bhp? 

Googling reveals many, similar theories, but I have no idea if they’re true...

[Flytvr]

Not sure I want anymore power.

If I could get some more low down torque, great.

[Stuno1]

9 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

Not sure I want anymore power.

If I could get some more low down torque, great.

Don’t disagree but if it is available easily and without replacing parts and spending a fortune I would never say no!

[tomRCFcarbon]

I would imagine (but don't know) that emissions tests / mpg are the enemy here...nothing in life is balancing so many objectives and conflicting agendas as an ECU in a high powered car (other than me negotiating with my ex-wife!).

Once you remove this obstacle after-market you can get big gains...I remember ABT saying that to reprogramme for the new generation RS4 they had to spend hundreds of hours (and therefore thousands of £) on developing the re-map - and that's for a car with hundreds of potential customers. With a market as small as F cars it doesn't make sense for any tuner to invest the time...you might find NOVEL or TOMS have developed a re-map for the Jap market, a mate of a mate of mine runs driftworks and does lots of business with Jap importers and after market mod-ers so I could ask if he knows of a remap - they usually come on a USB stick these days and self-install from the diagnostic port

[Mark G]

Where are you going to find significant gains on an ECU remap with an atmospheric engine, if its a turbo motor I get it, if not, without serious work and money, forget it................

[GibletPH]

1 hour ago, Stuno1 said:

Appreciate that and it’s a bigger capacity engine but still great to know the power can be had for as little as £500.

 

In this instance an ecu tune.

https://www.quantumtuning.co.uk/car-remap-tuning-remapping.aspx?&make=Lexus&range=RC F

This is pretty much limited to the C63, the E9X M3 is another rival that doesn’t see much gains from a remap. 

I think the standard route of exhaust, headers, intake and a remap will see a bit more power but it’ll cost a few grand for an extra 40-50hp which isn’t great. 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Stuno1 said:

I assume the rcf is as difficult to tune as the isf? When I say this I mean £££ needed for decent gains. To get good gains from the isf it needs headers, decat and aftermarket exhaust then a tune. Is the rcf the same? 

Research suggests it is but am am I correct? 

Stu

I'd say it will be more difficult. Toyota and Yamaha have already extracted another 60 bhp from the engine going from the IS F to the RC F so you need to work even harder to get more.

Some of the extra power was from redesigned intake and exhaust headers, but to get more, and to maintain reliability, they needed to go for expensive internal lightening and balancing, to get an extra 500 rpm - they wouldn't have bothered if it was easy to get additional power with a remap and an exhaust.

[tomRCFcarbon]

Forgive my ignorance - is the RCF v8 the ‘same’ Yamaha v8 in the xc90 / noble m600? If so the noble mods would be directly transferable I would have thought...

[ColinBarber]

4 minutes ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

Forgive my ignorance - is the RCF v8 the ‘same’ Yamaha v8 in the xc90 / noble m600? If so the noble mods would be directly transferable I would have thought...

Nope, not in any shape or form. It is a Toyota engine, however they have a 50+ year working relationship with Yamaha who do a lot of development work on their cylinder heads.

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, tomRCFcarbon said:

Forgive my ignorance - is the RCF v8 the ‘same’ Yamaha v8 in the xc90 / noble m600? If so the noble mods would be directly transferable I would have thought...

No it is not... not even similar...