What will ES offer that IS doesn't?

[Ian J. Parsley]

Apologies if this has been raised elsewhere on the Forum, but I spotted this week Lexus plans to offer the new ES in the UK from next year.

How will it fit into the line-up, do we think? What type of buyer will it attract to the brand?

[ColinBarber]

It's a larger vehicle and replaces the GS. In theory it should offer a level of refinement and quality above the IS.

[dutchie01]

The IS is starting to show its age. With a new 3 series around the corner a new A4 on the road and a facelifted merc it will be more difficult to be competitive.

The ES is brandnew and although the exterior looks familior the inside is way different and lightyears ahead of the IS.

I am still a bit confused though. I understand the move in the USA but in Eurp killing the non selling GS and replace it with the new ES that looks  like a moderned up GS and is likely to cost thesame..  Will this be the recipe for success?  

[Ian J. Parsley]

I visit North America once a year and would on the basis of what I've seen there always have placed the ES more in line with the IS (a bit like an A4 versus an A5 sportback; with the GS more like an A6); so the idea is that in Europe the ES will align more to the (outgoing) GS?

Likewise, I wonder how that is supposed to work. I guess it is worth a try?!

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I am still a bit confused though. I understand the move in the USA but in Eurp killing the non selling GS and replace it with the new ES that looks  like a moderned up GS and is likely to cost thesame..  Will this be the recipe for success?  

No, but may get the sales back to 1,500 a year rather than 400.

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, Ian J. Parsley said:

I visit North America once a year and would on the basis of what I've seen there always have placed the ES more in line with the IS (a bit like an A4 versus an A5 sportback; to me the HS would be more like the GS); so the idea is that in Europe the ES will align more to the (outgoing) GS?

Likewise, I wonder how that is supposed to work. I guess it is worth a try?!

HS hasn't been sold for some time. The ES is essentially the same size as the GS, the new one possibly a bit bigger.

[Ala Larj]

I imagine that the HS is one size bigger than a GS! 😉

[Steve44]

I was quite liking the new ES as a potential replacement for my IS next year....... right up to “front wheel drive”. 

Not sure if Lexus have dropped a clanger here. I see they won’t offer an AWD option either.

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

I imagine that the HS is one size bigger than a GS! 😉

No exactly, it was weird car.. More like 4-Series GT, but hybrid as well.

I think the closest comparison for ES would be 4-series grand coupe or A5 sportback. What will it offer over IS... in my understanding nothing. It will be a bit larger car... What GS300h premier has over IS300h premier? It is larger with few more toys, same story will be with IS and ES. I reckon at he launch it will have significantly more toys +extra room, but when IS mk4 comes they will become almost equal.

From american line-up ES always was in between GS and IS in terms of all qualities. 

[Mr Vlad]

From what little I've seen and read on the new ES is that it looks rather tasty but costs a packet like starting at 70k? Not sure if I'm confusing it with another model but something about the Battery being smaller but more powerful and not impinging in the boot space? That is a very positive move forward. 

I'd say that what differs an IS to the ES is like what differs a 3 series beemer from a 5 series.

[Steve44]

The UK base model price will be under 40k. It’s a replacement for the GS so will be priced similar.

Battery is under rear seats so should still have folding rear seats and no reduction in boot space issues.

[ColinBarber]

10 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

I imagine that the HS is one size bigger than a GS! 😉

No, smaller than both the ES and GS. 

HS hasn't been sold for over three years. GS looks like it will go out of worldwide production next year as development on the next generation was scrapped. ES will be the only vehicle in that segment size.

[mrfunex]

I think I read on Facebook that the only model being offered in the UK is the ES300h. 

I don’t know car markets as well as Lexus/Toyota, but that seems a bit boring. Mind you, that might be the only model that’ll sell well enough to make it worthwhile... We can long for a performance variant, an ESF perhaps, but Lexus only sold around 55 GSFs, so maybe that line even lost them money?

[Zotto]

My question is: are we sure that there will not be a new GS model in the future? All the debate is focused on ES as a cheaper substitute of GS, but this would mean that  a Lexus buyer had to choose ES or a LS, spending over twice times the price. So, in  my opinion there is space for a new GS model, more similar to LS and as a 4 doors "sport coupe" , maybe be a RWD hybrid (plug in?) for those people that like LC but need 4 seats.

[Steve44]

There may be a new GS model for some markets, but I can't imagine that it would be sold in the EU.

Looks like the ES won't be offered with folding rear seats, as they've bolted a huge V brace between the rear turrets!

And despite it being front wheel drive, it still has a pretty huge central tunnel.

[ColinBarber]

31 minutes ago, Zotto said:

My question is: are we sure that there will not be a new GS model in the future? All the debate is focused on ES as a cheaper substitute of GS, but this would mean that  a Lexus buyer had to choose ES or a LS, spending over twice times the price. So, in  my opinion there is space for a new GS model, more similar to LS and as a 4 doors "sport coupe" , maybe be a RWD hybrid (plug in?) for those people that like LC but need 4 seats.

They would probably develop an ES coupe in that case. The next gen GS was apparently going to be too similar to the LS which would take sales away from it. 

The new ES is built on the TNGA platform and probably cheaper to development, therefore they can afford to up the quality without increasing the prices too much - it will probably sit between the current ES and GS in terms of cost. Sales of saloon vehicles is dropping, in favour of SUVs, so Lexus don't need two in the same size segment.

[ColinBarber]

4 minutes ago, Steve44 said:

Looks like the ES won't be offered with folding rear seats, as they've bolted a huge V brace between the rear turrets!

That's no bad thing. The current ES, GS, and LS don't. You need bracing on a longer wheelbase vehicle for chassis stability and for the added refinement.

[Zotto]

The central tunnel is a nonsense if it's not planned to fit a RWD, necessary to have more power to send to wheels, like in a GS 450h or a LS. If they don't plan to sell in Europe such a car leaving only the flagship LS the new ES model is a good "family car" but will not be an alternative to usual powerful executive sedans.

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, Zotto said:

The central tunnel is a nonsense if it's not planned to fit a RWD

Are Lexus going to offer AWD?

[Steve44]

Central tunnel looks like it is for the exhaust and Battery cabling, so they can keep a reasonably flat floor for refinement and economy.

Bracing in rear seats is Lexus specific, as the Toyota Avalon on which it is based comes with folding rear seats.

If you search for Toyota Avalon 2019 reviews online, there are a few just out and it gets some really good reviews. It is virtually identical to the ES, a few interior and exterior differences, but even the Hybrid and other drive trains are identical.  And if you thought the Lexus grille was huge, wait till you see what Toyota did to it............

[rayaans]

As others have already mentioned, it should have a better fit and finish, as well as a more refined and comfortable ride for those who want it. 

I would imagine AWD to be on the cards somewhere, especially as North America seem to absolutely love it. Maybe in a few years time.

The new IS is coming out in 2020, so not far off. 

[Zotto]

It seems that in West Europe ES will be sold in 2.5 Hybrid version only, while in other countries there will be 3.5 V6.

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Are Lexus going to offer AWD?

Current ES in US have option for 350 AWD, so it would make sense new model to have AWD option in US, definitely not in UK. But because they use same body for all cars even FWD 300h will have tunnel - that is kind of funny for those saying FWD = more space inside.

[Rabbers]

Looks like a straightforward rationalisation of Lexus’ global range whereby the overlap between two products requires one, namely the GS, to be withdrawn.  That a 300h ES might be preferred to an IS at parity of trims and generational improvements would purely depend on the customer’s size requirements and willingness to pay for the extra amount of metal.

[Linas.P]

ES and GS didn't exactly "overlapped", not to mention one being RWD and sharing most of components with other RWD cars in the range and other being single FWD car in the range, or at least not any more then say BMW 4/6-Series Grand coupes overlap with 5-Series.