Which Engine oil?

[jaffer]

What is the best oil i can use on my LS430, i do 10,000 miles a year but tend to service it every 3-4k miles. currently using Shell Helix but I have bought a few bottles of Castrol edge long life and Mobil 1. 

 

which one is best

[DaKa]

I used to buy the expensive oils, Mobil 1, Castrol etc, but with 6,000 mile annually I now just use a 5-30 fully synthetic oil purchased from Wilko circa £20.

Probably will be frowned upon, but better I think to change the oil and filter regularly?

 

[jaffer]

16 hours ago, DaKa said:

I used to buy the expensive oils, Mobil 1, Castrol etc, but with 6,000 mile annually I now just use a 5-30 fully synthetic oil purchased from Wilko circa £20.

Probably will be frowned upon, but better I think to change the oil and filter regularly?

 

im servicing it every 3k at the moment, using genuine filter and shell oil to clean the engine out. I have to do 12,000 miles in august alone so was just deciding which oil to use on my road trip. I will be carrying 20 litres with me and getting the oil changed as i go along. 

[steve2006]

I’m on Shell Helix at the moment, buy it when Euro Car Parts have the discount codes.

[DaKa]

Every few thousand miles seems a little more often than necessary but I'm sure that your car will appreciate the attention.

I change my Lotus Esprit oil every 5k miles but for me that circa 18-24 months apart as it's just a weekend fair weather toy.

[ColinBarber]

Best in what terms? Protection, value for money etc? If you are changing every 4k miles then having the best seems overkill. Any premium synthetic oil can last 10k miles - something like Castrol Edge, Shell Helix or Mobil 1.

Lexus don't specify a particular oil to use on the LS, it just needs to meet a minimum specification. In fact the only vehicle where Lexus have a specific requirement is the LFA which needs Mobil 1 5W-50.

[jaffer]

23 hours ago, DaKa said:

Every few thousand miles seems a little more often than necessary but I'm sure that your car will appreciate the attention.

I change my Lotus Esprit oil every 5k miles but for me that circa 18-24 months apart as it's just a weekend fair weather toy.

maybe yes but I change the oil myself, oil filter from toyota is 6.50 plus vat and I bought 4x5 litres Castrol edge long life from Skoda Plymouth for £100 so an oil change costs me £33 tops using genuine filter and Castrol edge. 

 

I think i do go over the top when it come to changing fluids.

[jaffer]

22 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Best in what terms? Protection, value for money etc? If you are changing every 4k miles then having the best seems overkill. Any premium synthetic oil can last 10k miles - something like Castrol Edge, Shell Helix or Mobil 1.

Lexus don't specify a particular oil to use on the LS, it just needs to meet a minimum specification. In fact the only vehicle where Lexus have a specific requirement is the LFA which needs Mobil 1 5W-50.

the best all rounder :).

I have 4 bottles of Castrol edge, 3 bottles of Mobil 1 and 4 bottles of Shell Helix. I changed the oil in Jan and it has covered 3k miles since so I am going to do another change but couldnt decide which one to use. 

[ColinBarber]

What viscosity are they? Go with the thicker ones during the summer months.

[MLW]

Any of the good stuff is OK. It is the spec, not the brand that is crucial. Asda/Tesco's are both  top brands, but I have recently gone with Shell Helix fully synthetic at Euro Car parts. Often about £20 for 5 litres. How cheap can it get? I would change at 5,000 if you must...... or 10,000 for normal motoring.

[jaffer]

On 23/04/2018 at 7:58 PM, ColinBarber said:

What viscosity are they? Go with the thicker ones during the summer months.

all 5w30

[jaffer]

On 23/04/2018 at 9:58 PM, MLW said:

Any of the good stuff is OK. It is the spec, not the brand that is crucial. Asda/Tesco's are both  top brands, but I have recently gone with Shell helix fully synthetic at Euro Car parts. Often about £20 for 5 litres. How cheap can it get? I would change at 5,000 if you must...... or 10,000 for normal motoring.

Lexus recommend 5w30 so thats what i have collected. I know that brand isnt crucial. I should have phrased my question correctly.

In august I will be driving my car to pakistan and back through the heat of Iran and pakistan. its a total of 12,000 miles and I want to give the best treatment to the car i can so really the choice of oil i was considering was for that journey. locally in the uk i will use Shell Helix every 3-4k. 

[Hadrian]

Regarding synthetic oil...Some years ago when I had my first Accord, I asked the chap who ran the garage where I got it serviced

about using synthetic oil.   He explained that it's not just a case of using it at the next oil change. The engine needs to be drained

of oil and the system flushed to get rid of all of the standard oil. It's not cheap either.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Hadrian said:

Regarding synthetic oil...Some years ago when I had my first Accord, I asked the chap who ran the garage where I got it serviced

about using synthetic oil.   He explained that it's not just a case of using it at the next oil change. The engine needs to be drained

of oil and the system flushed to get rid of all of the standard oil. It's not cheap either.

Most Lexus vehicles would have had synthetic from day one, your IS300h certainly has.

Synthetic and mineral can be mixed, you just don't get all the benefits, so a flush isn't 100% necessary.

[matt8]

It goes against what the Lexus dealers would do, but after discussion with my mechanic, I had semi synthetic 10W-40 put in (instead of 5W-30 as Lexus would use).

His theory is that Lexus and all manufacturers are firstly, in the business of selling and repairing cars, and secondly, want to attain the very best efficiency which should help them market and sell vehicles more effectively.

The less viscous / more runny oil (5W) creates less resistance for engines than a more viscous / less runny oil (my 10W), therefore improving efficiency. When that oil heats up in the engine, you can imagine it gets thinner and thinner, perhaps to the point where it doesn't stick to all the components as best as it could / should. This decreased resistance helps manufacturers achieve improved efficiency and emissions ratings, but at the cost of optimal lubrication and therefore faster engine wear.

A thicker oil may create increased resistance (therefore decreased fuel efficiency) but the oil remains more viscous at higher temperatures and remains adhered to the engine components it is intended to lubricate.

Engine wear means more repair business and revenues at our expense. But this doesn't matter, the efficiency and emissions ratings have been achieved and increases revenues in repairs, or more regular car purchases.

In fact, the manual recommends this 10W-40 oil rating when used under extreme conditions, but we both agreed this would be better for my car, even in non extreme use.

His trained mechanic ear also tells him, that the metal clanging he can hear in engines on startup, can be removed by using a semi synthetic, thicker oil as I have. That 5W-30 drips down into the sump, leaving very little on the components at the top of the engine. The thicker stuff is less prone to dripping off. When you start the vehicle next time, there is more oil protecting the components than there would otherwise be if a thinner oil had been used. No more clanging.

A bit of a conspiracy here, but felt plausible and a good choice. No regrets so far and no problems, even in the winter. Perhaps someone will cause me to change my mind with their comments.

[Britprius]

29 minutes ago, matt8 said:

It goes against what the Lexus dealers would do, but after discussion with my mechanic, I had semi synthetic 10W-40 put in (instead of 5W-30 as Lexus would use).

His theory is that Lexus and all manufacturers are firstly, in the business of selling and repairing cars, and secondly, want to attain the very best efficiency which should help them market and sell vehicles more effectively.

The less viscous / more runny oil (5W) creates less resistance for engines than a more viscous / less runny oil (my 10W), therefore improving efficiency. When that oil heats up in the engine, you can imagine it gets thinner and thinner, perhaps to the point where it doesn't stick to all the components as best as it could / should. This decreased resistance helps manufacturers achieve improved efficiency and emissions ratings, but at the cost of optimal lubrication and therefore faster engine wear.

A thicker oil may create increased resistance (therefore decreased fuel efficiency) but the oil remains more viscous at higher temperatures and remains adhered to the engine components it is intended to lubricate.

Engine wear means more repair business and revenues at our expense. But this doesn't matter, the efficiency and emissions ratings have been achieved and increases revenues in repairs, or more regular car purchases.

In fact, the manual recommends this 10W-40 oil rating when used under extreme conditions, but we both agreed this would be better for my car, even in non extreme use.

His trained mechanic ear also tells him, that the metal clanging he can hear in engines on startup, can be removed by using a semi synthetic, thicker oil as I have. That 5W-30 drips down into the sump, leaving very little on the components at the top of the engine. The thicker stuff is less prone to dripping off. When you start the vehicle next time, there is more oil protecting the components than there would otherwise be if a thinner oil had been used. No more clanging.

A bit of a conspiracy here, but felt plausible and a good choice. No regrets so far and no problems, even in the winter. Perhaps someone will cause me to change my mind with their comments.

The problem with the above is that the 5W or 10W part of the oil viscosity numbers relates to the oils cold viscosity. A "thinner" oil will circulate faster from a cold start protecting the moving parts quicker. Further it is the shear point of the oil that protects when the engine is hot, and this has nothing to do with the viscosity of the oil.

The higher number in the oil numbers relates to it viscosity when hot "100 C", but again thicker oil does not mean better lubrication. 

John. 

[Hadrian]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Most Lexus vehicles would have had synthetic from day one, your IS300h certainly has.

Synthetic and mineral can be mixed, you just don't get all the benefits, so a flush isn't 100% necessary.

That's something I didn't know.

[matt8]

2 hours ago, Britprius said:

The problem with the above is that the 5W or 10W part of the oil viscosity numbers relates to the oils cold viscosity. A "thinner" oil will circulate faster from a cold start protecting the moving parts quicker. Further it is the shear point of the oil that protects when the engine is hot, and this has nothing to do with the viscosity of the oil.

The higher number in the oil numbers relates to it viscosity when hot "100 C", but again thicker oil does not mean better lubrication. 

John. 

Thanks John.

Are you thinking this idea is completely wrong then, or is there some value to it for UK climate? Why would they recommend a different oil at extremes?

I'm open to having my mind changed!

[ColinBarber]

Higher viscosity in general offers higher protection, and synthetic oils offer better protection for the same equivalent viscosity compared to mineral. However there are always exceptions.

5W-30 is a compromise between performance, economy, emissions, and protection and many engines have lasted 200k miles plus without issues.

Modern Toyota engines, especially the hybrids, now use 0W-20 fully synthetic.

[Britprius]

In actual fact I used 0W20 oil in my GS450H for the past 3 years with the engine now approaching 135,000 miles.

I find the car requires 1/2 Ltr of oil top up between the 10,000 mile oil change interval. In real terms a top up is not necessary because the level does not get near the low level mark, but since I use the car for towing a 20ft caravan keeping the level at or near the full dipstick mark seems sensible. 

Virtualy all the Toyota engines can use 0W20 oil as shown in the list below.

Toyota Oil Applications.pdf

[jaffer]

On 27/04/2018 at 3:33 PM, Britprius said:

In actual fact I used 0W20 oil in my GS450H for the past 3 years with the engine now approaching 135,000 miles.

I find the car requires 1/2 Ltr of oil top up between the 10,000 mile oil change interval. In real terms a top up is not necessary because the level does not get near the low level mark, but since I use the car for towing a 20ft caravan keeping the level at or near the full dipstick mark seems sensible. 

Virtualy all the Toyota engines can use 0W20 oil as shown in the list below.

Toyota Oil Applications.pdf

they recommend 0w20 for hybrid models.

I will use that to service my ls600h 

 

should be picking that up from toyota today 

[MLW]

Go with 5w-30. At £20-25 a can at Euro Car Parts for Shell Helix, why struggle?

90% of engine wear is in the first 10 seconds. Here a thin oil is great. My 430 came with SL as the standard oil recommended. We are now on SN. Oil has improved immeasurably in the last 15 years. The interesting thing is my Lexus uses absolutely no oil between services..... a good sign.

If engine wear worries you so much, compromise with a 7,500 mile oil change. A happy medium.

[fletch52]

so i buy a car ls600h that cost £80,000 new. and some  people put in  the cheapest oil they can find,? is that right.i even put harley oil in my harley ,even though harley dont make their own oil..

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, fletch52 said:

so i buy a car ls600h that cost £80,000 new. and some  people put in  the cheapest oil they can find,? is that right.i even put harley oil in my harley ,even though harley dont make their own oil..

Colin, one does not spoil a ship for half a penny worth of Tar.

An £80,000 car requires £80,000 maintenance.

[BigBoomer]

5W30 semi-synth from eBay or amazon. Don't care about brand so long as it meets specs. I change it every 10k miles along with a new filter. At 126k miles she burns no oil, runs well, and the old oil coming out is still in good condition according to the tests I had done on samples at 100k and 120k miles.

With basic maintenance the engine in the LS will still be running when the rest of the car has dissolved or worn out. The engine is so well engineered that you'd have to massively neglect it to cause significant damage.

 Lexus recommend 5W30 for 38C or below. If you are going to be driving in very hot areas go to 10W40 but change back to 5W30 once you get back to the UK.